CA Program - Ask questions, get answers! (new and improved) (2 Viewers)

[immabee]

Just popped up another 4 questions randomly..

1. What part-time/casual accounting jobs do you guys get to be involve in whilst studying full-time bachelor of commerce/accounting degree?. As I browsed through job search lists, I seemed to be somewhat disadvantage because I do not know how to operate most softwares e.g. SAP, MYOB (heck not know what Pronto is). Or do you guys opt for other sorts of casual/part time jobs?

2. Is it necessary to join a Graduate program in order to get enrolled into CA program and to get that 3-year practical experience?

3. I also do wonder if all firms require a permanent residency visa at the completion of the graduate program and CA program.

4. Also has anyone tried completing all the accounting units during second year and proceed to CA program during third year?

 

[seremify007]

Just popped up another 4 questions randomly..

1. What part-time/casual accounting jobs do you guys get to be involve in whilst studying full-time bachelor of commerce/accounting degree?. As I browsed through job search lists, I seemed to be somewhat disadvantage because I do not know how to operate most softwares e.g. SAP, MYOB (heck not know what Pronto is). Or do you guys opt for other sorts of casual/part time jobs?

I believe for UNSW we don't require or teach how to use it at all (surprisingly). I suppose it's more important to understand the underlying data and how it works, as opposed to the system used to extract the data. From memory UTS teaches students how to use MYOB which is a bit more practical but I guess it won't really help you if you work in large corporation since they'll all use Peoplesoft GL, Sun GL, SAP, etc... and they'll train you when you get there. For me I picked things up on the job auditing clients and learning how to use their tools- noone expects you to know if that makes you feel any better.

On another note if you really want to learn MYOB or Quicken, I think TAFE probably runs courses which include it since it's a very practical thing to learn.

2. Is it necessary to join a Graduate program in order to get enrolled into CA program and to get that 3-year practical experience?

No, they recognise experience in other roles too as long as it's relevant and meets criteria. e.g. it can be as a trainee at (another) chartered firm, or you could be working in an accredited organisation. Refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com...-experience/Practical-Experience-requirements

3. I also do wonder if all firms require a permanent residency visa at the completion of the graduate program and CA program.

PR has nothing to do with the CA program. PR or specific visa requirements is for you to get a job with a firm- in recent years, all the firms moved to allow non-PR/citizens to apply however the competition is far more fierce in these roles as ultimately the firm has to bear the responsibility and cost of sponsoring you to work in Australia. As long as you meet all the CA program requirements, you are eligible to receive the CA designation/qualifications- you'll find there are people doing the Australian CA program in other countries around the world (e.g. Malaysia, India, America) even though they aren't citizens or PR in Australia.

4. Also has anyone tried completing all the accounting units during second year and proceed to CA program during third year?

I haven't but I know some people who did. As long as you've finished all your accounting electives as well (very unlikely by second year but possible if you overload to do it say, half a year earlier before graduating) then you can. Given the cost of joining the program to start studying as well as the tuition (if you want extra help), most people wait until their employer is willing to pay for it- this is typically after you've been working with a firm/company as opposed to prior.

 

[StarryLenz]

CA Program

I'm hoping to undertake the revised CA program at some stage of my degree but aren't totally sure about when is the right time. According to the CA website link Accredited Tertiary Courses 2012, am I meant to have completed all the required units of study before beginning the program - or can I apply having completed a couple of the units.

Personally, I would like to start from 2013 (2nd yr of uni), but probably at this stage, I would have only completed a couple of units (equivalent to junior units of accounting major). Btw, I'm doing a Bach of Com (Lib Studies) at USYD.


Hopefully seremify or anyone else who knows more about this program can help.




Cheers

 

[seremify007]

Re: CA Program

You need to have completed ALL prerequisite subjects. Typically this is either most or all of your degree. I know some people who managed to start CA in their final semester of uni but really, it's not recommended. There's no incentive to do that since it means you're doing a lot more work at the same time (even balancing CA with part time uni studies is challenging), you're less likely to have an employer who is willing to sponsor you and pay for any additional costs (e.g. tuition) and you may find it tough to meet the admission requirements in terms of employment & mentor requirements. Whilst the employment and mentor requirements can change over time, and the CA program is looking to change the delivery method for 2013, I think you'd be better off waiting until you've started working full time before you even think about trying to do the CA program. You'll also gain a lot more out of it if you are doing it whilst working with other people because you can work together, share resources, bounce ideas, etc... because the support you get from the Institute and in Focus Sessions is very minimal- i.e. the people there "facilitate" discussion and not much more.

Keep in mind the CA program is a post-graduate qualification. It's not really designed or intended for people who are in uni to start- and even then, you must be able to meet any work experience requirements too.

 

[StarryLenz]

Re: CA Program

You need to have completed ALL prerequisite subjects. Typically this is either most or all of your degree. I know some people who managed to start CA in their final semester of uni but really, it's not recommended. There's no incentive to do that since it means you're doing a lot more work at the same time (even balancing CA with part time uni studies is challenging), you're less likely to have an employer who is willing to sponsor you and pay for any additional costs (e.g. tuition) and you may find it tough to meet the admission requirements in terms of employment & mentor requirements. Whilst the employment and mentor requirements can change over time, and the CA program is looking to change the delivery method for 2013, I think you'd be better off waiting until you've started working full time before you even think about trying to do the CA program. You'll also gain a lot more out of it if you are doing it whilst working with other people because you can work together, share resources, bounce ideas, etc... because the support you get from the Institute and in Focus Sessions is very minimal- i.e. the people there "facilitate" discussion and not much more.

Keep in mind the CA program is a post-graduate qualification. It's not really designed or intended for people who are in uni to start- and even then, you must be able to meet any work experience requirements too.

thanks, exactly what i was looking for. guess I'll just explore the program more in the meantime... REPPED!

 

[StarryLenz]

Re: CA Program

as u said above that its good to start program once you start working full-time, does this 'work' constitute things like a Big 4 Cadetship? Reading from the website, it says '3 yrs full-time' but I just had a look on your thread about the possibility of it being reduced to 9 months or something...

from this, I've got a new plan so hopefully this one works. basically I'll try doing a cadetship from 2nd yr uni (e.g. E/Y) and try to finish all CA units by 1st semester of final yr uni. Or else, I could try finishing the CA units in the 2nd last yr of uni, undertaking the program in final yr. What would you suggest in this case? just out of curiosity, did u do anything remotely like this ^ yourself haha?

cheers

 

[seremify007]

Re: CA Program

as u said above that its good to start program once you start working full-time, does this 'work' constitute things like a Big 4 Cadetship? Reading from the website, it says '3 yrs full-time' but I just had a look on your thread about the possibility of it being reduced to 9 months or something...

Before we get in too deep in discussion, keep in mind that there are two different work experience requirements.

1. Service Entry
The SERVICE ENTRY requirement used to require you to have worked say six months or so before you could even commence the first module. There are numerous reasons why work experience is a good thing to have, but primarily it gives you some practical experience which you can relate the theory you are learning with. The other conclusion people reach is that if you can relate to the content better, you're more likely to get something out of the CA program and also more likely to pass- the latter being a key thing for any employer. So even though the Institute has reduced entry requirements, you'll still need to find an employer who is willing to sponsor you and this may require you to prove to your employer that you're a really great student and are capable of balancing the work commitments and studies- i.e. exception rather than rule.

Refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com...d-Accountants-Program/Entry-requirements.aspx

2. Practical Experience
The other requirement you're referring to is the PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE requirement which is the work experience requirement before you can actually get the CA designation. That is, you can finish all the modules but until you've done 3 years full time work, you can't actually call yourself a CA. It needs to be relevant work, etc... and your employer needs to fill in forms confirming this, etc.

For more info refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com...ered-Accountants-Program/Practical-experience

from this, I've got a new plan so hopefully this one works. basically I'll try doing a cadetship from 2nd yr uni (e.g. E/Y) and try to finish all CA units by 1st semester of final yr uni. Or else, I could try finishing the CA units in the 2nd last yr of uni, undertaking the program in final yr. What would you suggest in this case? just out of curiosity, did u do anything remotely like this ^ yourself haha?

Whilst cadetship work experience is recognised so therefore you can get CA qualified as soon as you've finished the studies/exams (since they take more than a year to complete), I don't understand why you're trying to rush. Keep in mind if you fail a subject, typically your employer will require you to pay for it including any additional tuition/support materials and textbooks.

I personally just did the normal cadetship route of do the cadetship, finish uni, start CA, finish CA, etc. It gets messy if you try to overlap things and unless you overload in uni so that you have a nice cruisy final semester (e.g. you only need to do 2 or 3 subjects instead of 4), I think you'd find the program very difficult to manage. You'd also miss out on a lot of the firm-support since you wouldn't actually be employed at the time and hence you wouldn't be able to loop in with your fellow intake grads/trainees to help you (and hence making the program even harder).

 

[StarryLenz]

Re: CA Program

Before we get in too deep in discussion, keep in mind that there are two different work experience requirements.

1. Service Entry
The SERVICE ENTRY requirement used to require you to have worked say six months or so before you could even commence the first module. There are numerous reasons why work experience is a good thing to have, but primarily it gives you some practical experience which you can relate the theory you are learning with. The other conclusion people reach is that if you can relate to the content better, you're more likely to get something out of the CA program and also more likely to pass- the latter being a key thing for any employer. So even though the Institute has reduced entry requirements, you'll still need to find an employer who is willing to sponsor you and this may require you to prove to your employer that you're a really great student and are capable of balancing the work commitments and studies- i.e. exception rather than rule.

Refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com...d-Accountants-Program/Entry-requirements.aspx

2. Practical Experience
The other requirement you're referring to is the PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE requirement which is the work experience requirement before you can actually get the CA designation. That is, you can finish all the modules but until you've done 3 years full time work, you can't actually call yourself a CA. It needs to be relevant work, etc... and your employer needs to fill in forms confirming this, etc.

For more info refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com...ered-Accountants-Program/Practical-experience



Whilst cadetship work experience is recognised so therefore you can get CA qualified as soon as you've finished the studies/exams (since they take more than a year to complete), I don't understand why you're trying to rush. Keep in mind if you fail a subject, typically your employer will require you to pay for it including any additional tuition/support materials and textbooks.

I personally just did the normal cadetship route of do the cadetship, finish uni, start CA, finish CA, etc. It gets messy if you try to overlap things and unless you overload in uni so that you have a nice cruisy final semester (e.g. you only need to do 2 or 3 subjects instead of 4), I think you'd find the program very difficult to manage. You'd also miss out on a lot of the firm-support since you wouldn't actually be employed at the time and hence you wouldn't be able to loop in with your fellow intake grads/trainees to help you (and hence making the program even harder).

thanks for the input. on a final note - aside from the ca program, mmm... i was just thinking about the potential cadetship taken in 2nd yr - knowing that you have to take 2 subs/sem - I'm afraid this will lengthen my degree (4yrs) heaps - do you know how long it could be lengthened by approx.? In your sig, you managed a cadetship i assume with uni and finished in 4 yrs but isn't a part-time degree around 6 yrs? tbh, I'm keen on completing uni/cadetship asap but will keep your advice in mind

also, I just read the EY website and it says that the cadetship is 2yrs long and once someone has graduated, they continue work at EY - would this be reflective of other firms?

 

[seremify007]

Re: CA Program

thanks for the input. on a final note - aside from the ca program, mmm... i was just thinking about the potential cadetship taken in 2nd yr - knowing that you have to take 2 subs/sem - I'm afraid this will lengthen my degree (4yrs) heaps - do you know how long it could be lengthened by approx.? In your sig, you managed a cadetship i assume with uni and finished in 4 yrs but isn't a part-time degree around 6 yrs? tbh, I'm keen on completing uni/cadetship asap but will keep your advice in mind

Standard Commerce/Business degree is 3 years - Year 1, Year 2 and Year3

With a cadetship, one of those years is stretched into two since you are doing half load/part time (whilst working full time). In your case it would be Year 2 which becomes split into two (hence lengthening by one year overall).

also, I just read the EY website and it says that the cadetship is 2yrs long and once someone has graduated, they continue work at EY - would this be reflective of other firms?

They are referring to the full time work component as being 2 years. Typically yes you continue to work as a graduate at the respective firm once you finish uni unless you had performance issues or you resigned/chose not to.

ps. I am merging this thread into existing CA Program thread.

 

[seremify007]

Just thought I'd post an update here after working in the US.... US GAAP is so prescriptive (and thick compared to our IFRS standards).

 

[immabee]

I am now doing a 3rd year unit Financial Accounting: Theory & Practice where I come across with more accounting standards. It wasn't too bad but I am somewhat disadvantaged since units such as advance corporate accounting & introduction to finance would be a great advisable prior to study units according to some of the mates who are taking this unit with me this semester. (Am taking introduction to finance this semester and advance corporate accounting for next semester).

Another absolute dumb question here. Since there is so many Accounting standards everywhere in the book, I wonder how relevant these are for all accounting-related divisions in a firm? Do you guys remember certain accounting standards & refer to the book or basically the entire thing?. If so, what accounting standards do you guys use pretty frequent in preparing/analysing accounts?

 

[seremify007]

I am now doing a 3rd year unit Financial Accounting: Theory & Practice where I come across with more accounting standards. It wasn't too bad but I am somewhat disadvantaged since units such as advance corporate accounting & introduction to finance would be a great advisable prior to study units according to some of the mates who are taking this unit with me this semester. (Am taking introduction to finance this semester and advance corporate accounting for next semester).

Another absolute dumb question here. Since there is so many Accounting standards everywhere in the book, I wonder how relevant these are for all accounting-related divisions in a firm? Do you guys remember certain accounting standards & refer to the book or basically the entire thing?. If so, what accounting standards do you guys use pretty frequent in preparing/analysing accounts?

For most accounting roles, you really only need to know the basics as to what you do and even then, at graduate level, it won't be much. If you choose to pursue a career in audit, financial reporting or accounting policy, then you obviously will need to know it in a lot more depth but typically the area which is relevant to you and the countries in which your business/firm operates in. For example I work primarily in financial services so I focus on 132/139 but I also am pretty solid in all the core financial reporting frameworks and presentation of fin statements, etc... you don't need to know it off the top of your head, but you need to know where to look if you come across a certain issue (e.g. how should XYZ be treated given that it is subject to ABC). Just like the CA exam, life is open-book and you have infinite resources available to you at any time so noone expects you (in most roles at least) to regurgitate standards but you would be expected to know roughly which standard has what (e.g. you wouldn't look for employee benefits in the financial instruments standard).

ps. Wait until you have to learn AIFRS, ASA (auditing), USGAAP, USGAAS, and (pure) IFRS In all seriousness, you pick things up as you go along- I used to struggle remembering even the framework/SACs but then after doing it for 6 years, I'm pretty reasonably well versed in the relevant standards to me and have written countless papers/essays/memos analysing the financial reporting standards for AIFRS, IFRS and even GAAP.

 

[converge]

Hi guys

I am currently studying a BCom (majoring in Accounting in Finance) at Macquarie University. I have recently realised that as I was scouring through the list of accredited courses on the CA website, the degree I am doing is not recognised. I have contacted CA and they told me to fill out a standard assessment form. My question is has anyone taken this path before and what was it like?

Many thanks in advance

 

[Azure]

BCom at Macquarie is recognised? I'm doing the same degree.

Are you sure you haven't just chosen subjects in your accounting major that don't correlate to what the institute wants?

 

[converge]

BCom at Macquarie is recognised? I'm doing the same degree.

Are you sure you haven't just chosen subjects in your accounting major that don't correlate to what the institute wants?

I think the degree you are talking about is BCom-Prof Accting/B Applied Fin, am I right? Yes that degree is recognised but the one I am doing is an ordinary BCom - Accounting, Finance which is not recognised by the institute.

 

[seremify007]

I am looking at http://www.charteredaccountants.com...Program/Entry-requirements/Accredited-courses under the 2012 Accredited courses and can see that they only list BCom-ProfAccg and BCom-ProfAccgLLB . That's interesting because I'm pretty sure my friends did the standard B Comm at Macquarie and later went on to do CA with me. Looking back at say, 2009's ATC list, BCom (Accounting) is listed as acceptable. Might be worth investigating with your uni and the institute why it was removed in later years.

 

[converge]

I am looking at http://www.charteredaccountants.com...Program/Entry-requirements/Accredited-courses under the 2012 Accredited courses and can see that they only list BCom-ProfAccg and BCom-ProfAccgLLB . That's interesting because I'm pretty sure my friends did the standard B Comm at Macquarie and later went on to do CA with me. Looking back at say, 2009's ATC list, BCom (Accounting) is listed as acceptable. Might be worth investigating with your uni and the institute why it was removed in later years.

Thank you very much for the response. From what I have accumulated, Macquarie have split their accounting program into two components. You can major in accounting (the one I am doing) or professional accounting, the one where you get accredited. I have asked the institute about this, and I think worse comes to worst, I return to uni to complete those units I need to be accredited.

 

[seremify007]

Thank you very much for the response. From what I have accumulated, Macquarie have split their accounting program into two components. You can major in accounting (the one I am doing) or professional accounting, the one where you get accredited. I have asked the institute about this, and I think worse comes to worst, I return to uni to complete those units I need to be accredited.

Are you actually missing any of the subjects though? Keep in mind shaded vs. unshaded in the PDF above.

 

[converge]

Yes I am missing a few subjects. From just glancing, I can see that I am missing stuff like Business Law, Corporations Law, Revenue Law (these are unshaded) etc.

 

[seremify007]

Yes I am missing a few subjects. From just glancing, I can see that I am missing stuff like Business Law, Corporations Law, Revenue Law (these are unshaded) etc.

You will DEFINITELY need those. You're expected to have some understanding of how to reference both legislation and past cases, as well as understanding some of the concepts from corps law (e.g. corporate veil) and contracts.