Capitalism or Communism? (4 Viewers)

[boris]

comrade nathan is the only fully fledged communist on this place who doesn't shit me with these magical ideals of a utopia.

plz sir, post moar.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Remember the prime directive!

 

[bassistx]

Communism rejects religion. I know that.
And I reject it.

I want to live that way. You live whatever way you want to, buddy.
But this way, no wars break out because of religion and jihad and "terrorist attacks".

I know wikipedia isn't the best source, but I lost that damn link. Look up that marxist site.

 

[ccc123]

What you are arguing for bassistx is closer to fascism. This distinction between a all powerfull government and then the "people" (which includes all classes) is similar to what the fascist propagated after WW1. The idea that a group of elite people can mantain an equal society for all social classes through absolute government control is disastrous, and leads the fascist nations to always be at war with externel nations and internal ethnicities/nations.

This government can not peacefuly maintain this system of equality. It creates enemies within the occupied territory to allow distractions from it's short commings. It also needs external war for labour and natural resources for the imperialistic bourgeois.

What you promote is utopian. What's worse, is when it fails, it can lead to fascism.

Wikipedia is idealist. At best it may have trotskyist influences, this however works to cover up the achievements of real Communist movements. Look beyond wikipedia.

True this.

 

[fantabulous]

True this.

How?

 

[bassistx]

The plan is not to fail, duh.
That's why you have "plan B".

But let's not get into facism just yet lol. I have to go driving.
Ciao

 

[Comrade nathan]

Did you keep missing the part about dictatorship?
You think Communists are dumb. But in fact, for Communism to work, you would need a fairly educated and advanced society.

EDIT: Refer to above post.

Wtf? Fascism? You're twisting everything!

Communist theory sets out to give ideas for use in practice to destroy all forms of oppression. Through analysis of class history (historical materialism) it is the proleteriat who will lead the revolution through socialism and break down all forms of oppression. This includes, national, ethnic, and most importantly class oppression. So it will destroy all social classes.

The system you promote, attempts to protect social classes and curtail the class war. This is similar to fascism, your version is just the human face.

You promote some good ideas, that are very "heart touching". But unfortantly, very unrealistic. Ok, it may not lead to fascism, it may lead to some nice form of capitalism, or even some distorted socialism. It is however not Communism.

And as far as I'm concerned, apart from the death squads (which weren't really an integral part of communism, beyond a news headline POV)

Death squads?

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

communism is a great theory. THEORY. say it. THE-O-RY.

i used to believe it could work in practice. but the more i thought about it the more i realised i was supporting an idea that goes against all the basic elements of human nature, and i gave myself a good face-kicking for being naiive enough to think we can achieve utopia in the world we've got now.

Humans are greedy. Humans will take what they can get. Humans will step over one another to be better than each other. You know why? We're animals. You think any other species sits around going "gee, we really should take these nuts we have spent countless hours gathering for the winter and give them to the other animals who didn't collect as much as we did, and we'll live happily ever after?"

Hell no. Those animals are gonna hoard those nuts and claw the eyes of any creature that tries to steal them. And so they should.

 

[MaNiElla]

lol.

.

 

[ccc123]

communism is a great theory. THEORY. say it. THE-O-RY.

i used to believe it could work in practice. but the more i thought about it the more i realised i was supporting an idea that goes against all the basic elements of human nature, and i gave myself a good face-kicking for being naiive enough to think we can achieve utopia in the world we've got now.

Humans are greedy. Humans will take what they can get. Humans will step over one another to be better than each other. You know why? We're animals. You think any other species sits around going "gee, we really should take these nuts we have spent countless hours gathering for the winter and give them to the other animals who didn't collect as much as we did, and we'll live happily ever after?"

Hell no. Those animals are gonna hoard those nuts and claw the eyes of any creature that tries to steal them. And so they should.

Qft. This is the justification I've been going with all along, despite the fact the BOS Communist League tear it to shreds everytime.

 

[dieburndie]

Free healthcare is a complete joke. I have been to the doctor about once in the past 2 years, because I am healthy and take relatively good care of myself.

The idea of subsidising people who don't is completely absurd to me. Unlike education, free healthcare can't really be considered a reasonable social investment either (Note:I'm also dubious about public education). Healthy people paying for the treatment of people who abuse themselves is ridiculously unfair, and I find it odd that people label it the fair alternative.

Edit: The above part of the post seems irrelevant, but I am replying to the ideas about 'free' services expressed about a page ago

As for the issue overall, to me it's becoming increasingly evident how inefficient and generally incompetent government deparments across the board are. They waste the money of the people they are meant to be helping against their will, they often perform functions that are completely unnecessary, and because they aren't pursuing a profit they don't usually go to great lengths to ensure staff are performing tasks adequately. Private enterprise isn't flawless but compared to the vast shortcomings of the public sector it's at the very least preferable.
I can't see any reason anyone would want to go further in the direction of communism other than them being ill-informed.

 

[Comrade nathan]

communism is a great theory. THEORY. say it. THE-O-RY.

i used to believe it could work in practice. but the more i thought about it the more i realised i was supporting an idea that goes against all the basic elements of human nature, and i gave myself a good face-kicking for being naiive enough to think we can achieve utopia in the world we've got now.

Humans are greedy. Humans will take what they can get. Humans will step over one another to be better than each other. You know why? We're animals. You think any other species sits around going "gee, we really should take these nuts we have spent countless hours gathering for the winter and give them to the other animals who didn't collect as much as we did, and we'll live happily ever after?"

Hell no. Those animals are gonna hoard those nuts and claw the eyes of any creature that tries to steal them. And so they should.

Maybe you should actually look at what Communists have acheived in the real world when they applied their theory and what they continue to achieve and maintain before you say "it doesn't work". Cosmic Doris, do you see any real life achievements? If you think it is good in theory, surely you have an opinion on the practice.

 

[dieburndie]

The theory is the problem. Human self interest can be applied to the theory, and when it is the theory fails.

 

[boris]

The problem with governments is that they're ordinary people trying to govern over things of which they know nothing.

I think only doctors should be health ministers. Only those with a background in engineering or transport should be in charge of roads, etc.

 

[ccc123]

Interesting concept that ^

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Maybe you should actually look at what Communists have acheived in the real world when they applied their theory and what they continue to achieve and maintain before you say "it doesn't work". Cosmic Doris, do you see any real life achievements? If you think it is good in theory, surely you have an opinion on the practice.

my opinion on the practice of communism is that, while in theory it sounds great to have everybody on an equal playing field, in practice it cannot work so smoothly because of the human nature I was talking about before. it looks ok on paper but trying to get people to actually do it and not have it fall flat on its face or have to be propped up by a dictatorship to ensure it keeps going, is a much more difficult thing, and in the end i think it's neither worth it, nor entirely fair, despite what the ideal is meant to be.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

The problem with governments is that they're ordinary people trying to govern over things of which they know nothing.

I think only doctors should be health ministers. Only those with a background in engineering or transport should be in charge of roads, etc.

that's actually a good idea

 

[williamc]

Capitalist or market economies ftw.

 

[boris]

Well think about it.

If you've never worked in health in any capacity before, what do you know about the needs of the healthcare system? So Reba Meagher has some dimwit advisers, she still has no idea.

That's just an example, obviously I'm not going to sit here and identify every portfolio.

 

[williamc]

my opinion on the practice of communism is that, while in theory it sounds great to have everybody on an equal playing field, in practice it cannot work so smoothly because of the human nature I was talking about before. it looks ok on paper but trying to get people to actually do it and not have it fall flat on its face or have to be propped up by a dictatorship to ensure it keeps going, is a much more difficult thing, and in the end i think it's neither worth it, nor entirely fair, despite what the ideal is meant to be.

communism is shit in ideology and in practice.