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career options after a bachelor of med science (1 Viewer)
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Tim035
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Despite what a lot of people might think, there are a number of career options for those with a medical science background. HOWEVER the initial 'foot in the door' is extremely tough as there are zero internships / cadetship programs offered in the Australian pharmaceutical / medical industry and no one wants to touch you without 1-2 years related experience under your belt. This is mainly related with the following kind of positions:
- Clinical research officer / associate
- Medical information officer / associate
- drug safety / pharmacovigilance officer
- Regulatory affairs or medical affairs associate
Equaling frustrating is none of these positions really have a 'junior' option that one could take to eventually gain enough experience to transition into them. Doing a Phd at a clinical research institute is one long winded way that may allow you establish yourself in one of these jobs. Also if a graduate / entry level job for one of these positions does pop up on a career board, expect to duke it out with 200+ other hopeful science grads for the position.
Moving on, another more accessible field for a recent graduate is to work as a hospital scientist, performing various diagnostic and analytical experiments in a pathology or haemotology laboratory. These jobs can be found on:
http://www7.health.nsw.gov.au/healt...CATION=&ID=1233&CFID=1869799&CFTOKEN=68141501
If you are in your final year of study and interested in this career path, keep a careful eye out as there are often advertisements for 'trainee hospital scientists' where they hire final year students on a part time basis + paid study leave to train them to be fully functional as a hospital scientist upon finshing uni (+ you'll be making ~$600 a week whilst studying which is rather sweet).
Some of the private diagnotic services like Douglas Hanley Moore pathology also have job postings, but are typically after more experienced individuals.
Otherwise there is also of course your research assistant jobs, where your salary comes from a government grant a research group has acquired. Due to the lack of career development, I wouldn't consider these unless you are either passionate about lab based research and / or strongly considering a Phd or masters by research in the near future.
Then there are other random positions that a medical science degree provides a reasonably good background for, such as a quality control officer, administrative assistant for a pharmaceutical company, pharmaceutical sales representative.
Having finished med sci honours last year I'm currently working as a: Patent and regulatory information analyst for a small company in the CBD. It's an interesting position that requires a bit of explaining, and the company I work for is basically the only one of it's kind in the country.
Finally of course a med sci degree will give you a good edge for section 3 of the GAMSAT, allowing you to duke it out with the brightest of the country for a position in post grad med, pharmacy or denistry.
- Clinical research officer / associate
- Medical information officer / associate
- drug safety / pharmacovigilance officer
- Regulatory affairs or medical affairs associate
Equaling frustrating is none of these positions really have a 'junior' option that one could take to eventually gain enough experience to transition into them. Doing a Phd at a clinical research institute is one long winded way that may allow you establish yourself in one of these jobs. Also if a graduate / entry level job for one of these positions does pop up on a career board, expect to duke it out with 200+ other hopeful science grads for the position.
Moving on, another more accessible field for a recent graduate is to work as a hospital scientist, performing various diagnostic and analytical experiments in a pathology or haemotology laboratory. These jobs can be found on:
http://www7.health.nsw.gov.au/healt...CATION=&ID=1233&CFID=1869799&CFTOKEN=68141501
If you are in your final year of study and interested in this career path, keep a careful eye out as there are often advertisements for 'trainee hospital scientists' where they hire final year students on a part time basis + paid study leave to train them to be fully functional as a hospital scientist upon finshing uni (+ you'll be making ~$600 a week whilst studying which is rather sweet).
Some of the private diagnotic services like Douglas Hanley Moore pathology also have job postings, but are typically after more experienced individuals.
Otherwise there is also of course your research assistant jobs, where your salary comes from a government grant a research group has acquired. Due to the lack of career development, I wouldn't consider these unless you are either passionate about lab based research and / or strongly considering a Phd or masters by research in the near future.
Then there are other random positions that a medical science degree provides a reasonably good background for, such as a quality control officer, administrative assistant for a pharmaceutical company, pharmaceutical sales representative.
Having finished med sci honours last year I'm currently working as a: Patent and regulatory information analyst for a small company in the CBD. It's an interesting position that requires a bit of explaining, and the company I work for is basically the only one of it's kind in the country.
Finally of course a med sci degree will give you a good edge for section 3 of the GAMSAT, allowing you to duke it out with the brightest of the country for a position in post grad med, pharmacy or denistry.
kaz1
et tu
Trying to be a real doctor.
thanks for your input, really gave me some insight and different career options. Im only in my 2nd year majoring in med chem, but im just not sure what i really want to do. i am doing well in my studies but i do not want to do a MBBS. i dont see a career in the lab a positive decision for myself. Looking at what a clinical research associate and a pharmacovigilance associate is, does seem interesting.
May i ask what your daily duties are as a Patent and regulatory information analyst?
thanks
May i ask what your daily duties are as a Patent and regulatory information analyst?
thanks
Tim035
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Med chem is definetly a wise choice out of the usual medsci major (I wish I'd done more organic chem / less biochem, pathology etc.).
My job involves a number of tasks. The company I work for basically constructs highly comprehensive reports that are aimed at helping a pharmaceutical company carefully select its product pipeline in a manner that is going to avoid litigation with other companies, and give them a good commercial return by being either first to market or by gaining an exclusivity principle on a specific dose or formulation of a drug. The kind of tasks I do include:
- Research and report on investor related news in regards to the pharmaceutical industry (usually takes a couple of hours, 2 days a week).
- Construct boolean operator based search commands that will identify any possible patent related to our clients drug or product, including related molecules, formulations, synthetic pathways, intermediates, combinations, clinical uses, assay techniques etc... These require a very thorough understanding of the chemistry and pharmacology surrounding our clients drug and can take a couple of full days to complete. The final search command is usually ~40 lines long and may contain up to 500 search terms.
- Evaluate patents identified as relevant and related to our clients drug or product and write simple but comprehensive and accurate comments reflecting the scope of the patent in terms of claims.
- Back search existing drugs that our clients have subscriptions to and future drugs about to be released for new authorized formulations, combinations or indications and update our database accordingly.
It's an interesting job, and suprisingly challenging. However from the math I've done I'm not convinced the company is breaking even, as the price they are able to charge for a report just doesn't add up to the time and effort in terms of salary that must be put in to construct it (and that's assuming a salary of only $50kpa.). I'm happy to work here for the next year or so, but if I can't see serious career potential from it I will likely go back to uni for medicine or pharmacy (depending on what my GAMSAT results in a months time say).
Edit- A lot of people have tried to convince me otherwise but I'm unable to see the return on investment from doing a PhD. Not to mention following post-doc positions will likely require a lot of travel and stress related to whether I will still have a job in a years time, which I don't want out of life.
My job involves a number of tasks. The company I work for basically constructs highly comprehensive reports that are aimed at helping a pharmaceutical company carefully select its product pipeline in a manner that is going to avoid litigation with other companies, and give them a good commercial return by being either first to market or by gaining an exclusivity principle on a specific dose or formulation of a drug. The kind of tasks I do include:
- Research and report on investor related news in regards to the pharmaceutical industry (usually takes a couple of hours, 2 days a week).
- Construct boolean operator based search commands that will identify any possible patent related to our clients drug or product, including related molecules, formulations, synthetic pathways, intermediates, combinations, clinical uses, assay techniques etc... These require a very thorough understanding of the chemistry and pharmacology surrounding our clients drug and can take a couple of full days to complete. The final search command is usually ~40 lines long and may contain up to 500 search terms.
- Evaluate patents identified as relevant and related to our clients drug or product and write simple but comprehensive and accurate comments reflecting the scope of the patent in terms of claims.
- Back search existing drugs that our clients have subscriptions to and future drugs about to be released for new authorized formulations, combinations or indications and update our database accordingly.
It's an interesting job, and suprisingly challenging. However from the math I've done I'm not convinced the company is breaking even, as the price they are able to charge for a report just doesn't add up to the time and effort in terms of salary that must be put in to construct it (and that's assuming a salary of only $50kpa.). I'm happy to work here for the next year or so, but if I can't see serious career potential from it I will likely go back to uni for medicine or pharmacy (depending on what my GAMSAT results in a months time say).
Edit- A lot of people have tried to convince me otherwise but I'm unable to see the return on investment from doing a PhD. Not to mention following post-doc positions will likely require a lot of travel and stress related to whether I will still have a job in a years time, which I don't want out of life.
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Your job sounds very interesting. Im surprised you dont do any lab work coming from such a degree that relies mainly upon research. But i do understand that you cant see much career potential in what your doing. It wouldnt be hard for you to be a pharmacist, just do a 2 year masters? i too am thinking pharmacy. I havnt given too much thought to doin post grad med though. Can i ask you why you chose to do an honours and what doing an honours actually does for you in terms of career progression, studies and so forth, because isnt honours research based? and you dont seem to be going in that direction. i dont see the potential in doing a PhD, finishing by your 30, not having any money behind yourself all to just be called a doctor.
chewy123
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A close relative did med science at a Go8 uni with 2nd class honour and hasn't been able to get a job in a related field. In all honesty the degree seems to offer very limited job oppotunities in Australia. All his friends who did med science are now working in unrelated fields. Med science seems like a 'stepping stone' for if you want to do gamsat and become a doctor/dentist...etc. The alternative is doing a PhD and try to find oppotunities researching at uni, or find work overseas. With great admiration to tim for his success, I think he is amongst the rare ones.
That's really interesting Tim. In your division, are there mainly med sci grads, or do you get other related majors like pharmacology, pharmacy, etc? What other divisions exist in your company?
To OP (and Tim as well): I would caution against pharmacy. I've heard from some good friends that the market's saturated--that there are far too many schools opening and not enough graduate training positions, and that, even in the country, it's getting difficult.
To OP (and Tim as well): I would caution against pharmacy. I've heard from some good friends that the market's saturated--that there are far too many schools opening and not enough graduate training positions, and that, even in the country, it's getting difficult.
Tim035
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Sigh, wrote a lengthy response and the website crashed when I clicked submit.
@Chewy- Thanks for the kind words, I found a job, but it's not a career and I still have a lot of anxiety revolving around what options I realistically have in life if med doesn't work out. Australia's pharma is too small and poor to train graduates, they rely on skilled individual that were trained by the big pharma overseas that are willing to come over here and know what to do from day one. This applies to most of those jobs I listed near the start of my first post.
@Timmy_b I did honours only because I knew just a plain med sci wasn't going to get me a job even as a research assistant or hospital scientist. At least honours gives you some real experience in performing experiments that you haven't been given a receipe for. If someone offered me on the conclusion of my Phd a more or less guranteed job I would start one tomorrow, but I will not start a Phd knowing I may be jumping all over the globe trying to find post-doc work till my mid 30s, resulting in me having no savings, no friends and no family of my own.
Pharmacy worries me due to all the negativity surrounding over-saturation of the profession and a general loss of profesionalism as all the major pharmacy chains try to out compete each other with gimmicky product ranges, slogans and branding. The line between a chemist and a smaller supermarket is becoming more blurred by the day. I worked as a pharmacy assistant for a year and would lose my mind if it was basically what I would be doing for the rest of my working days. Maybe being a hospital pharmacist would be ok or working at a chemist that does a lot of compounding. IF I can get 1 of 5 CSP places offered at Usyd for master of pharmacy (following a failure to get into med) I may do it, but otherwise the FEE-help debt to do a M.Pharm is something insane like $30k a year.
On a bottom line, like many people that start a science degree I need to be intellectually stimulated, learning and getting my mind around complex problems and data is something I NEED to do or my family can attest I start to drive them mad due to being bored and unchallenged. Is being a pharmacist, or answering phones to provide medical information, or even regurgitating regulatory information for marketing teams really going to provide this?
Edit for glache:
- I agree and have to been warned by many of the dangers of doing pharmacy. The company I work for is tiny there are 22 of us in a 2 story office in all of Australia, plus a small sales team in the U.S and U.K. All the people in my sector (patent analysts) have science backgrounds in either medicinal chemistry / pharmacology or biotechnology, most of them have a masters in this field and 3 of them even have a Phd. There are 9 of us in total, I think funnily enough I'm the lowest qualified in terms of academic accreditation with just an honours degree and no post-grad qualification.
@Chewy- Thanks for the kind words, I found a job, but it's not a career and I still have a lot of anxiety revolving around what options I realistically have in life if med doesn't work out. Australia's pharma is too small and poor to train graduates, they rely on skilled individual that were trained by the big pharma overseas that are willing to come over here and know what to do from day one. This applies to most of those jobs I listed near the start of my first post.
@Timmy_b I did honours only because I knew just a plain med sci wasn't going to get me a job even as a research assistant or hospital scientist. At least honours gives you some real experience in performing experiments that you haven't been given a receipe for. If someone offered me on the conclusion of my Phd a more or less guranteed job I would start one tomorrow, but I will not start a Phd knowing I may be jumping all over the globe trying to find post-doc work till my mid 30s, resulting in me having no savings, no friends and no family of my own.
Pharmacy worries me due to all the negativity surrounding over-saturation of the profession and a general loss of profesionalism as all the major pharmacy chains try to out compete each other with gimmicky product ranges, slogans and branding. The line between a chemist and a smaller supermarket is becoming more blurred by the day. I worked as a pharmacy assistant for a year and would lose my mind if it was basically what I would be doing for the rest of my working days. Maybe being a hospital pharmacist would be ok or working at a chemist that does a lot of compounding. IF I can get 1 of 5 CSP places offered at Usyd for master of pharmacy (following a failure to get into med) I may do it, but otherwise the FEE-help debt to do a M.Pharm is something insane like $30k a year.
On a bottom line, like many people that start a science degree I need to be intellectually stimulated, learning and getting my mind around complex problems and data is something I NEED to do or my family can attest I start to drive them mad due to being bored and unchallenged. Is being a pharmacist, or answering phones to provide medical information, or even regurgitating regulatory information for marketing teams really going to provide this?
Edit for glache:
- I agree and have to been warned by many of the dangers of doing pharmacy. The company I work for is tiny there are 22 of us in a 2 story office in all of Australia, plus a small sales team in the U.S and U.K. All the people in my sector (patent analysts) have science backgrounds in either medicinal chemistry / pharmacology or biotechnology, most of them have a masters in this field and 3 of them even have a Phd. There are 9 of us in total, I think funnily enough I'm the lowest qualified in terms of academic accreditation with just an honours degree and no post-grad qualification.
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Hey Tim (or anyone who can answer my questions),
Can you actually become a pharmacist by majoring Pharmacology in med sci?
I'm quite interested about the research side of med sci, but i actually want to base my research on causes/cure of diseases/viruses - which a major in microbiology/immunology under a science degree would be more appropriate.
I looked through all the subjects in med sci, and everything seems a bit broad - so i'm quite worried that med sci won't lead to the type of research i want...
So, what kind of research do you think i'll be able to conduct with a med sci degree?
And is a simple bachelor degree sufficient enough to begin my own research i.e. receiving grants to start my own research/joining research team? Or would it be too difficult?
Can you actually become a pharmacist by majoring Pharmacology in med sci?
I'm quite interested about the research side of med sci, but i actually want to base my research on causes/cure of diseases/viruses - which a major in microbiology/immunology under a science degree would be more appropriate.
I looked through all the subjects in med sci, and everything seems a bit broad - so i'm quite worried that med sci won't lead to the type of research i want...
So, what kind of research do you think i'll be able to conduct with a med sci degree?
And is a simple bachelor degree sufficient enough to begin my own research i.e. receiving grants to start my own research/joining research team? Or would it be too difficult?
Tim035
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Hey frozen sky, Med Sci is fine for that sort of research aimed at product development such as a drug or vacine. Unfortunately though just a bachelors isn't even close enough to perform your own research unless you have A LOT of money and can start up your own lab / company. Otherwise you'll need at minimum a Phd and more likely 5+ years post-doc experience before you may be considered worthy of a grant by NHMRC.
A pharmacology major will fullfil all the pre-requistes such that you could do a masters of pharmacy in 2 years.
A pharmacology major will fullfil all the pre-requistes such that you could do a masters of pharmacy in 2 years.
wow so i would have to spend 8 years of my life just to begin my own research :S...
The thought of doing research is inspiring but i dont know if im willing to give up 8yrs of my life + low pay...
Anyway, if i master pharmacy in 2 years after med sci - will i also receive a license to do pharmacy? Similar to how a b of pharmacy receives there license after 5 years of the course - rather than 3 years?
And is there any entry tests for me to enter into pharmacy? Like gamstat (don't know how to spell it) or something like that?
The thought of doing research is inspiring but i dont know if im willing to give up 8yrs of my life + low pay...
Anyway, if i master pharmacy in 2 years after med sci - will i also receive a license to do pharmacy? Similar to how a b of pharmacy receives there license after 5 years of the course - rather than 3 years?
And is there any entry tests for me to enter into pharmacy? Like gamstat (don't know how to spell it) or something like that?
Survivor39
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Have you considered looking for a sales position with one of those companies? Although a sales representative might not be your thing but I can see real opportunities for career progression (e.g. sales managers, state managers etc).
Alternative, I have a friend (with a PhD though), who is working for a company and she travels to different labs and countries to show clients how to operate their real time PCR machines - sounds pretty good to me.
I don't think your comment about "jumping all over the globe searching for post-doc positions" is quite true. There are HEAPS of post-doc positions available in Australia and abroad. I can walk into another lab within this Department and say can you give me a job when I finish my PhD and I can honestly say they will likely say "yes". If you are really good, you might even get a fellowship where the government pays for your salary (not the supervisor or his/her grant) so you can work in whoever's lab you want. The bottom line is, in terms of post-doc prospect, it really isn't a problem.
Survivor39
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Yep, the Microbiology/Immunology major under BABS is perfect for you if you want to learn about infectious diseases, bacteria and viruses.
You will get hands on experience once you get into your Honours year. You will need to pick a supervisor who works on a research topic that aligns with your interest. e.g. HIV infecting T cells, or Helicobacter in IBD etc.
Alternatively, you can go for one of those summer research scholarships where you spend 6-8 weeks in a lab with your supervisor to learn some basic techniques prior to your Honours year.
What kind of research you want to do really depends on which supervisor you pick.
Depends on what you mean by "your own research". Even in Honours year you work under a supervisor who will direct you as to what your research area is. If you graduate and you work as a research assistant, you will also work under a supervisor. Even in PhD you will work under a supervisor but you will have more creative control as to what research you want to do, but of course what you do will have to align with the general direction of the research group. e.g. I can't suddenly do Hepatitis C virus in a lab where everyone does Salmonella infection. That doesn't make sense.
It is after you graduate with your PhD and have a bit more exprience after that you can consider opening your own lab, be your own boss and do whatever you want.