CompSci vs SEng vs Comp Eng (3 Viewers)

[anti]

We get a lot of queries about the differences between Computer Science, Software Engineering and Computer Engineering (Nobody seems to care about BINF)

I'm going to leave this thread for those of you who have studied or are studying one of the above degrees to give everybody else a little feedback as to your experiences. It's not meant to answer a question or to promote your degree over another, and please don't mention UTS or USYD

In your reply you may want to include information about:
* how many people do your degree - who you spend the most time with
* whether there's any subjects which are specialised for your degree
* where your subjects are held? What kind of practical experience do you get?
* what subjects you chose and why; what you would like to specialise in
* if you have electives, what you chose and why
* if you're doing a double degree
* if you had/were a mentor and whether they helped you
* anything else you think a prospective student might want to know

And a list of current students (please inform me if you want to be added or removed from this list):

Name / Degree
Sunny / CompSci
McLake / Seng
anti / CompSci
underthesun / Seng
ace / seng


Thanks guys!

 

[underthesun]

Probably the reason there's not much binf is the number of binfers themselves. I think its <20 or something, and I probably can already name >50% of people who started BINF this year. A rare bunch =)

* how many people do your degree - who you spend the most time with

This year, there's around 50-70 people(?) doing seng, as a rough estimate counting the amount of seng teams and the average number of people in a seng team. Since you still get to do many comp subjects, youll still get to know compsci-ers, which are the majority of CSE.

* whether there's any subjects which are specialised for your degree

SENG workshops are mandatory for sengers, and they involve things from project planning, evaluation, formal methods (namely B method), and more 2+nd year plus stuff. Example of first year stuff we learn is the magical power to estimate a project's success through evaluation proposals with evaluation instruments, based on standards such as ISO etc.

Oh, INFS core-subjects is boring too. Especially the first INFS subject : BDM.

And the rest of what you learn is very similar to compsci : the core computing subjects and the seng electives, which are pretty close to COMP. However, you can choose to do more maths, or more INFS. Beware INFS, the only useful INFS i had so far was requirement engineering.

* where your subjects are held? What kind of practical experience do you get?

You can become whatever computer scientists become (i.e researcher, code-monkey, whatever), with the addition that you become a better software contractor. Seng workshops involves tons of practical experiences in both design and coding, from design, formal specification, coding and project management.

* what subjects you chose and why; what you would like to specialise in

Still in first year, no subjects chosen. But lots of comp electives coming before INFS ones.

* if you have electives, what you chose and why

n/a

* if you're doing a double degree

I'm still thinking whether to combine with commerce or MBioMedE. Masters sounds better, but commerce sounds more useful.

* if you had/were a mentor and whether they helped you

my seng mentors (both the SENG mentor, and the CSE mentor) was awesome. Not much to say..

* anything else you think a prospective student might want to know

After hearing some horror stories about seng, that many 3rd year students failed this particular seng course, I have to say that SENG is not for the faint hearted. My comp tutor said though, that what you learn comes together to fit a bigger picture at around 3rd year.

Seng courses, although a 3 unit subject (true in 2nd and 3rd year), reportedly has workload more than 6 unit. I tend to think it's true too.

p.s add Ace to the list, im sure he wants to have a word

 

[ace]

This year, there's around 50-70 people(?) doing seng, as a rough estimate counting the amount of seng teams

The real number is about 50+ to <60 (i think 55 or 57) people enrolled this year. This does not include the people who dropped during the course during the year, so say mid 40's by now.

SENG workshops are mandatory for sengers, and they involve things from project planning, evaluation, formal methods (namely B method), and more 2+nd year plus stuff. Example of first year stuff we learn is the magical power to estimate a project's success through evaluation proposals with evaluation instruments, based on standards such as ISO etc.

SENG Workshops are alot harder than what is made out to be, via there course descriptors. You go into the workshops, barely any lectures, no tutorials, then your expected to create things, you have never done before, with no training or anything. Just learn as you go along.

So i guess this in practicality is close to a real world situation, cause you employer would not teach you, you'd attain the skills along the way, some how.

Oh, INFS core-subjects is boring too. Especially the first INFS subject : BDM.

Infs is quite boring. BDM was ok, except that the lecturer puts you to sleep. Like the course is not bad, but the way it is taught does not leave much to be desired.

Beware INFS, the only useful INFS i had so far was requirement engineering.

I thought, BDM was more useful than Requirements Engineering. Since Requirements Engineering, seemed like a mini-Seng Workshop. I didn't like the swapping of group assignments, to base the last deliverable upon. No wonder its hard to get marks there, your getting marked on writing something, you have no clue about, since you never envisioned it. Well I guess it tries to push you to learn and see how far your own potential can go.

You can become whatever computer scientists become (i.e researcher, code-monkey, whatever), with the addition that you become a better software contractor.

Emphasising better

I'm still thinking whether to combine with commerce or MBioMedE. Masters sounds better, but commerce sounds more useful.

More information for all the engineering degrees is needed on this topic.

Seng courses, although a 3 unit subject (true in 2nd and 3rd year), reportedly has workload more than 6 unit. I tend to think it's true too.

Just from SENG1020, that 3UOC course was more work than any other 6UOC course during that semester. Seng pushes you to the point, where sleeping is not an option.

SENG is NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART

p.s add Ace to the list, im sure he wants to have a word

Yes, add me to the list. A fellow SENG person.

 

[anti]

Okay, this is mine.

I started in 2003, Comp Sci Co-op. I'm also female.

* how many people do your degree - who you spend the most time with
There are a lot of compscis. Computer Science takes a lot more students than SENG, Comp Eng or Binf, which is one of the contributing factors to a lower cutoff.

I spend the most time with fellow co-ops from my year; many of my other friends are SENG/CompEng/Binf. You socialise a lot with people who do your courses and as the computing courses are generalised for all of the UNSW computing degrees.. well, you get my drift.

We enjoy paying Sengers out for doing BDM while we do Advanced Database couses though ^______^


* whether there's any subjects which are specialised for your degree
No, computer science does the core component of computing. We do the same COMP courses as Comp Eng and Seng at least for the first two years.

Because I'm on co-op I have a few more required courses than the average CompSci, but most of my friends do them as well anyway. The few which are specialised for my degree are: 9311 database something or other (S2/1st year), a computing / maths course (it's actually a MATH subject), and err.. I forget. I do another advanced db course next session, and I will most probably do the SENG version of Professional Issues and Ethics (because of timing problems - it's also 6uoc where the Compsci one is 3uoc)


* where your subjects are held? What kind of practical experience do you get?
All at Kensington campus. I'm on IT at the moment in the city.

Most if not all computing courses contain a practical element - mostly labs (weekly) and assignments (anything from 2-13 weeks)


* what subjects you chose and why; what you would like to specialise in
I haven't had much choice at the moment.. I'm not a codemonkey so I'm not doing harder programming subjects like Operating Systems.. I would like to learn more advanced database skills, but in the end I don't want to be a specialist programmer


* if you have electives, what you chose and why
First year: Linguistics 1A, Marketing 1A, Murderers and Medical Detectives (gen ed)
Second year: no electives, Astronomy (gen ed)

* if you're doing a double degree
n/a - you can't do a double degree with co-op

* if you had/were a mentor and whether they helped you
n/a - although i signed up to be one next year XD

* anything else you think a prospective student might want to know
There's a lot of computing-related socs you can join - there's a list on the associated website (it would be do.cse.unsw.edu.au/ or something like that). Things I'm involved in (ha!!!! if you know me) this year are: CompSoc, Women in Computing (WIC), ..hmm.. that will do. I paid for my revue t-shirt and NO GO though

 

[McLake]

I guess I will add mine:

I started in 2003, Software Engineering.

how many people do your degree - who you spend the most time with
There are around 90 students who started in 03.
I tend to spend time with a mix of Seng and Comp Sci students.

whether there's any subjects which are specialised for your degree
The Seng Workshops, a series of team-based assignment-heavy courses.

where your subjects are held? What kind of practical experience do you get?
Subjects are held at the Kensington campus, all over the campus.
Practicle experience comes from labs, assignment work, and your own passion for sitting infront of your computer until your eyes fall out.

what subjects you chose and why; what you would like to specialise in
Choices so far:
- COMP2041 Software Construction (Perl, CGI, shell, harder C)
- COMP3421 Computer Graphics
- PHIL1007 Knowledge and Reality

I chose Soft Cons to learn shell scripting, and beacuse Comp Sci does it as a core subject, so I assumed it must be important. Graphics was chosen 'cause it looked fun, and it was. I chose Philosophy for a bit of interest ...

if you're doing a double degree
No

if you had/were a mentor and whether they helped you
No, but I hope to be one in '05

anything else you think a prospective student might want to know
If you want to know something ASK US!

 

[eViLnUt]

also...is it true that Comp Sci is more theoretical than SE, which is supposedly more practical and more sought agter in the computer industry?

 

[asdf]

also...is it true that Comp Sci is more theoretical than SE, which is supposedly more practical and more sought agter in the computer industry?

depends on the subjects you choose to do i guess...however generally engineering is more practical based.

edit: but then again, in a computing degree, practical = programming.

 

[sunny]

also...is it true that Comp Sci is more theoretical than SE, which is supposedly more practical and more sought agter in the computer industry?

It depends on you define as theoretical. Comp Sci lets you choose the majority of your subjects, if you end up choosing all textbook subjects then yes it will be more theoretical. Personally pretty much all the subjects I have chosen have been more programming/practical based.

 

[underthesun]

Im thinking compsci is ~75% electives, while seng is ~50% elective, with the ~25% taken away for some INFS subjects and SENG workshops (which is not big in unit amount, but HUGE in workload), plus some maths.

the percentages are approximates btw

with those electives you can choose to be practical or theoretical, all up to you. But SENG workshops is very very practical, (and involves TONS of works for 3unit subjects)

 

[eViLnUt]

but does it matter if its practical or theoretical? what is the actual difference anyway?

 

[underthesun]

Well, in SENG, this is what I thought as the difference between practical and theoretical.

practical = data flow diagrams, use-cases, class diagrams, requirements engineering, ...

(not sure where rigorous proofing of software fits, i.e B method)

theoretical = operating systems, robotics, neural network, compiler, ...

Well, I guess the line is pretty much blurred, but yeah, the "practical" aspects as for SENG is the "approach" and "methodology", where you learn to do things the formal way. Theoretical is about the actual theory about computers itself.

What you see as practical or theoretical may also vary depending on your definition of the words..

I'd rather much do theoretical, however SENG shoves the practical bit in. It's only fun if you know what you're doing (as opposed to last semester of mine :/ )

 

[McLake]

I thought I might update my response from before since this thread has been revived:

how many people do your degree - who you spend the most time with
There are around 90 students who started in 03.
I tend to spend time with a mix of Seng and Comp Sci students.

whether there's any subjects which are specialised for your degree
The Seng Workshops, a series of team-based assignment-heavy courses.

where your subjects are held? What kind of practical experience do you get?
Subjects are held at the Kensington campus, all over the campus.
Practicle experience comes from labs, assignment work, and your own passion for sitting infront of your computer until your eyes fall out. Industial Training is also a compuslry 60 days of work experience.

what subjects you chose and why; what you would like to specialise in
Choices for 05s1:
- COMP3411 AI
- COMP3891 OS

I chose AI to learn prolog better, and to develop my computer gaming skill set. I choose OS beacuse it will be a vital skill to know in hte real world.

if you're doing a double degree
No

if you had/were a mentor and whether they helped you
I am a mentor!

anything else you think a prospective student might want to know
If you want to know something ASK US!

 

[eViLnUt]

what exactly are the SENG workshops? Like can u giv us an example on a project/assignment u hav to do? I kno its teambased, but dats about all I kno...

 

[underthesun]

SENG workshops:

first year : all about documentation, you don't touch code.
second year : you start to get closer to implementation in the first half of the year, and in the end you do full implementation.
third year : so hard that tons of people failed? This is what I heard from my SENG mentors

The thing is, unlike normal comp subjects, you never know when you'll get things right, save for knowing what exactly they want out of you. Thus the reason the workload seemed so big.

course website for last year's first year SENG:
http://mahler.cse.unsw.edu.au:2002/webcms/course/index.phtml?cid=826

btw our group produced a 100 page report for the final assessment, so in total, we made around 200 pages of report . Caveat though, we're probably the most paranoid and overworked group in the whole year..

 

[McLake]

third year : so hard that tons of people failed? This is what I heard from my SENG mentors

So far not too hard, just REAL code. Maybe people failed 'cause they can't code?

SENG Workshops are a chance to put your knowledge from INFS and COMp to the test on a large scale project, in a way you never could with an individual assignment. They also give you a chance to see how you work in a team, an essenital skill as team based work is critical in most software development enviroment. Lastly, they are a ton of work for 3U, hence the reason for year 1 now being one 6U course.

 

[ace]

Yeah SENG year 1 changed to 6UOC.

But remember we used to do SENG1010+1020 (3UOC each) in the 2nd semester.

Now they called it SENG1031 (which is still the same as SENG1010+1020) just bundled under one name.

Yeah Seng Workload is quite alot, considering you have no clue what they want (HO HO HO, current sengers know what I mean).

 

[eViLnUt]

SENG workshops:

first year : all about documentation, you don't touch code.
second year : you start to get closer to implementation in the first half of the year, and in the end you do full implementation.
third year : so hard that tons of people failed? This is what I heard from my SENG mentors

The thing is, unlike normal comp subjects, you never know when you'll get things right, save for knowing what exactly they want out of you. Thus the reason the workload seemed so big.

course website for last year's first year SENG:
http://mahler.cse.unsw.edu.au:2002/webcms/course/index.phtml?cid=826

btw our group produced a 100 page report for the final assessment, so in total, we made around 200 pages of report . Caveat though, we're probably the most paranoid and overworked group in the whole year..

For the 'People Management System Group Project' wat does it mean by "there are a diverse number of companies that you might consider contacting so do not simply focus on the two companies that were mentioned in this document." I thought the companies were fictional? and I assume 'the board' is the lecturer?

 

[underthesun]

The board is fictional. But in terms of who gives you the marks, yeah it's the lecturer

In the second half of first year seng, we had to actually create evaluation instrument (basically a marking guideline from the corporate sense) to evaluate the reports and give scores basically, to everyone else's proposals.

We actually did go to some real companies to ask them how their business really works. It was.. fun

 

[ace]

For the 'People Management System Group Project' wat does it mean by "there are a diverse number of companies that you might consider contacting so do not simply focus on the two companies that were mentioned in this document." I thought the companies were fictional? and I assume 'the board' is the lecturer?

Well, the software that you are envisioning, should not be limited to the examples, that the lecturer has provided for reference (and a starting point obviously).

It's like saying, hey ANZ is there, no point about the other banks, etc.

The companies may be fictional, however you must research the appropraite demograph, and write accordingly.

The board is the lecturer. (Even though you pitch your presentation to the lecturer, you pitch is as if it were a board) - Hope that makes sense

 

[eViLnUt]

For the 'People Management System Group Project' wat does it mean by "there are a diverse number of companies that you might consider contacting so do not simply focus on the two companies that were mentioned in this document." I thought the companies were fictional? and I assume 'the board' is the lecturer?

Well, the software that you are envisioning, should not be limited to the examples, that the lecturer has provided for reference (and a starting point obviously).

It's like saying, hey ANZ is there, no point about the other banks, etc.

The companies may be fictional, however you must research the appropraite demograph, and write accordingly.

The board is the lecturer. (Even though you pitch your presentation to the lecturer, you pitch is as if it were a board) - Hope that makes sense

yep i c...sounds interesting...lolz but i still can't make up my mind on SENG or Comp Sci Good thing I still have plenty of time to decide...