Dance Champ Teen Found Dead Before Exam (2 Viewers)

[Serius]

Ever heard "fall down 5 times, get up 6"? Different outlooks on life.

People that dont focus on the bad moments and disappointments in their life arent self-deluded, they are just fortunate enough to be able to not worry about the pressures of life that many others may not be able to handle as successfully.

In saying that, what you see displayed from one person, might be a lot different when you dont see them. You cant be sure that they are like that constantly.

I am not saying its rational, i guess i begrudge their happyness when i am depressed and i wish i could be happy so easily. The more cynical part of me thinks of them as naive and false - acting like everything is butterflies and sunshine is not an accurate description of life. It doesnt bother me when iam feeling ok, but a part of me still wishes that they could be a little more realistic.

The stress of the HSC i feel isnt about the HSC itself, i think its about outside factors, pressure from family, pride, whatever.

With the male female suicide thing, do you think when a female cuts herself its for attention where as when a male wants to kill himself its actually because he doesnt want to live?[like train tracks style]

 

[anialicious]

I think its sad that theres such stigma surrounding suicide and depression, and that its so misunderstood.

I respect that everyone has a right to their own opinion on the subject, but I think that people who say that suicide is selfish or weak are actually contributing to the problem. Those kind of statements just make suicidal people feel even more isolated and misunderstood, which can prevent them from seeking help.

i think this person hit the nail right on the head.....i completely agree

 

[mrmagoo13]

actually, i think i was told that there are more attempts for females, more males succeed because they use more aggressive methods (and so are more likely to succeed)

Males are more likely to suicide - as WWs source will state

Yeh females are more likely to engage in self harming behaviours (which usually results in hospitalisation), whilst males are more likely to die from suicide.
[Source: Centre for Adolescent Health and AIFS]

Self harm and suicide are not the same, and it is a common misconception that suicide is a result of self harm.

The reason for this isn't as simple as you make out Exphate. There is more to it than just "male pride".
__________________

THis is true, but the "Male Pride" often discourages men from talking about the deeper issues that are going on.

 

[yoda109]

Also Schumann committed suicide in mid-life.

Actually, Schumann committed suicide at the end of his life.


As for the issue at hand, I'll just echo what politik said. Would they have printed the story for 11 months of the year? I don't think so.... although now that I'm a Frontline watching, media savvy graduate of the faaaaaaaaaabulous English syllabus I'm not so sure.

 

[iambored]

Males are more likely to suicide - as WWs source will state



Self harm and suicide are not the same, and it is a common misconception that suicide is a result of self harm.

mm.. but i meant attempts rather than just self harm. i guess the two are hard to pull apart. females are less likely to use some of the aggressive methods that males use and more likely to overdose etc. then again like serius brought up with the attention seeking point, there might be a difference with males really wanting to end their life and females taking the chance that it might/might not happen.

i don't think the story should have been reported either but mainly because by reporting it, it was suggesting that the hsc was to blame. we don't know if it was/ wasn't. there are probably many more stories like this outside hsc time.

 

[ujuphleg]

I don't care about what happened - it's a truism of teenage development - but what the Daily Telegraph did in reporting this story is the real problem here. This story should not have been reported.

Why shouldn't it have been reported?

If the young people of this country feel that life is not worth living and they are killing themselves because of it, surely attention should be brought to the issue and solutions should be sought after, rather than locking it up in a closet and not talking about it at all.

I'm not saying the discussion of it should normalise suicide. On the contrary, discussion about it may save lives.

 

[P_Dilemma]

If the edu system wasn't so screwed there'd be no need for counselling and counsellors for kids...

-P_D

 

[braindrainedAsh]

To the people that have pointed out that the article doesn't talk about suicide, that's because ethical reporting standards say that suicide shouldn't be reported upon because it can incite copycat attempts. Hence the reason why the article makes no reference to the method of her death. It's normal journalistic practice.

I wish she had felt she could talk to someone, what a terrible shame.

 

[Serius]

then why cant they just say ' this girl killed herself ya hear!" and not say how?

its not like refusing to say why is going to stop suicides, i would think if someone was game for a copycat suicide ,read the paper and didnt find any they would just kill themselves using a TRIED and true method like traintracks or overdosing on shit.

 

[mrmagoo13]

While this case is a girl, the suicide rate remains rediculously high for males (16-24) for the reason of not telling anyone how you feel - due to the "male pride" syndrome.

See next quote

Around one in six Australian men suffer from depression at any given time.
Four times more young men than young women commit suicide (Australian Bureau of Statistics, 2000)
Depression in men is associated with an increased risk of a variety of disorders, including cardiovascular disease and diabetes.
The experience of male depression is complicated by the fact that men are more likely than women to shy away from medical treatment of any kind. Instead of discussing psychological problems, or seeking appropriate treatment, men may turn to alcohol or drugs when they are depressed or anxious.
The statistics for teenage boys and young men are a concern. In the past 30 years, the suicide rate for males aged 15 to 24 years tripled.
For older Australian men (aged 65 years and over) the suicide rate remains very high. Risk factors for depression and suicide for this age group include death of a spouse, isolation, physical illness and chronic pain.

<http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=1.7>

 

[wuddie]

i dont know why this character died.

but if it is a suicide, then i feel sorry for her parents more than the diseased. whatever her reason was, wrong or right, she was selfish and inconsiderate. god forbid - and if dying is what takes her to realise her mistake, then let it be.

 

[ur_inner_child]

On the whole "reporting" subject, it is good to note that of all the major newspapers, only the Daily Telegraph felt the need to make this newsworthy. This article was front page news when it was posted, whereas other newspapers did not report it at all.

 

[dagwoman]

Women actually suffer from depression more than men, with 1 in 6 men and 1 in 4 women.

 

[FireFlower]

i dont know why this character died.

but if it is a suicide, then i feel sorry for her parents more than the diseased. whatever her reason was, wrong or right, she was selfish and inconsiderate. god forbid - and if dying is what takes her to realise her mistake, then let it be.

Do you really think these sort of comments help? As I've said before in this thread, this sort of attitude (which is far too common) makes suicidal people feel even more isolated, misunderstood and helpless. And, yes, I am speaking from personal experience.

You are entitled to your own opinion of course, but I think that you should realise that the opinion you hold contributes to the suffering of suicidal and depressed people. When I was seriously depressed and suicidal, the main thing that prevented me from seeking help was knowing that I would be judged by ignorant people who would think that I was selfish or that I should just 'snap out of it'.

Depression distorts thinking and prevents people from seeing things rationally. What seems inconsiderate to an observer might make perfect sense in the mind of a depressed person, so you can't blame them for not carefully considering the consequences.

This girls death is a tragedy and I feel extremely sorry for her. She obviously felt that death was her only option, and there is no worse feeling than that.

I feel sorry for those close to her as well. But I can't help but wonder how she managed to get to the point where she felt she had to kill herself without someone realising that something was wrong. Some people are able to hide just how bad things are, but maybe if someone had noticed something wasn't right and intervened in some way, things may have turned out differently. I am definately not blaming her family and friends for what happened though.

 

[wuddie]

Do you really think these sort of comments help?...

When I was seriously depressed and suicidal, the main thing that prevented me from seeking help was knowing that I would be judged by ignorant people who would think that I was selfish or that I should just 'snap out of it'.

Depression distorts thinking and prevents people from seeing things rationally. What seems inconsiderate to an observer might make perfect sense in the mind of a depressed person, so you can't blame them for not carefully considering the consequences.

This girls death is a tragedy and I feel extremely sorry for her. She obviously felt that death was her only option, and there is no worse feeling than that.

Yes i am entitle to my opinion and yes i think my comment helps for those who ever think of suicide in the future. if i didn't think it'd help i wouldn't have posted 'that sort of comments'.

sorry if i am being hard hitting and shit all - but this is the truth. what do you think the family would think when they realise that girl is dead? 'why didn't she talk to us? why did she have to choose to die? why didn't she tell anyone?' how do you think the family would feel? they raise her up for 18 years, and bang, she's gone. all the effort and love they've devoted for her, all disappeared into thin air. who do you feel sorry for now? the family or the girl?

if you think that dying was her only choice, then why are you feeling sorry for her at the same time? hasn't she got what she wanted - to be dead? why is death the only way out? there are soldiers fighting and dying so that you and i can live in peace, and you have a girl live in perfectly comfortable home with a loving family chooses to die because she thinks life is no longer worth living? WHAT THE FUCK WAS SHE THINKING?

there are helplines set up to help people like elizabeth and people like you my friend. they are NOT ignorant and judgemental people, they are trained! you are being the ignorant one who don't trust them.

again, i stand behind my opinion that the suicide 'victims' deserve what they did to themselves. if anyone reads this and have a good enough reason/scenario why elizabeth would have killed herself, and you would like to justify her action, share it with me.

 

[glitterfairy]

Here's an insight to the time when I was suicidal.

a) tried calling Kids Help Line numerous times, each time the line was busy (I waited for a full hour once), and never got through. On some of my worst days, I tried seeking the school counsellor - as luck would have it those days were the ones she wasn't there. Or, she was busy with someone else.

b) doctors inform parents when their kids are at risk of self-harm. My mum "doesn't believe" in anti-depressants and when I so much as brought up the "hey mum I think I could be depressed... the doctor has suggested anti-depressants and I'd like to try them", it unleashed a huge tirade concerning drug dependancy, "what are you going to do when you go off the anti-depressants? You'll be stuck on them for the rest of your life rah rah" / "so what if you're depressed, just get over it!" Zero support. Oh, and is now a good time to mention my parents were going through a divorce and every time I tried talking to the other parent, they took the opportunity to talk about "all their issues" with the other parent (ie venting session) and how they were recently diagnosed with borderline diabetes etc etc etc? Oh, it's so hard to believe. OMG IT CAN ACTUALLY BE HARD TO FIND PEOPLE TO TALK TO WHEN YOU REALLY NEED THEM TO BE THERE. *shock horror*

c) Having come out of that depression and being out of it for several years now, and I can look back on how I was thinking, what I wrote back then. IT IS NOT NORMAL. I only have to pick up anything I wrote back then and I am amazed at how different it is to how I was up to that point, and how I've been after it. Both my doctor, myself, and LOTS OF PEOPLE recognise that depression is NOT A CONSCIOUS THING YOU CAN 'CHOOSE' TO START OR STOP. Depression kills off a hell of a lot of endorphin production... it's a chemical imbalance thing. When you're depressed you can't think straight. You feel like you're in an emotional glut. On the few occasions when it's a 'good' day and you might 'just have enough endorphins in you to talk to someone, it just takes that someone to be busy/a random circumstance within or out of someone's control for things to go downhill again.

There is a reason for the term 'Clinical Depression'. It's recognised by doctors as a bonafide mental illness, right up there with bipolar disorder, post-natal depression, anxiety. You know, all those other temporary/long-term things that people have LITTLE OR NO CONTROL OVER?


If I hadn't been through it and recognised it for the hell it was, I'd wish you'd get depressed/suicidal one day so you could realise the sheer stupidity, insensitivity and closed-mindedness of your words.

 

[FireFlower]

Yes i am entitle to my opinion and yes i think my comment helps for those who ever think of suicide in the future. if i didn't think it'd help i wouldn't have posted 'that sort of comments'.

I fail to see how comments that contribute to the suffering of suicidal people are helpful. But yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I just think that you should realise that your opinion makes mentally unwell people feel more isolated and mistunderstood.

sorry if i am being hard hitting and shit all - but this is the truth. what do you think the family would think when they realise that girl is dead? 'why didn't she talk to us? why did she have to choose to die? why didn't she tell anyone?' how do you think the family would feel? they raise her up for 18 years, and bang, she's gone. all the effort and love they've devoted for her, all disappeared into thin air. who do you feel sorry for now? the family or the girl?

Of course I feel sorry for the family and friends of the girl. But I don't see why you can only feel sorry for the family or the girl, not both. I've never lost anyone to suicide so I can only imagine how awful it must be for those close to her. I never said that I didn't feel sorry for them. But feeling sorry for the family doesn't mean that I can't feel sorry for the girl. She must have genuinely felt that there was no way out for her; people don't usually kill themselves unless they are in the absolute depths of despair. If she was feeling like that, then I definately feel sorry for her.

if you think that dying was her only choice, then why are you feeling sorry for her at the same time? hasn't she got what she wanted - to be dead? why is death the only way out? there are soldiers fighting and dying so that you and i can live in peace, and you have a girl live in perfectly comfortable home with a loving family chooses to die because she thinks life is no longer worth living? WHAT THE FUCK WAS SHE THINKING?

I didn't say that I thought that dying was her only choice. I said that she must have felt that suicide was her only option. If she thought she had another option then she wouldn't have killed herself. Obviously there are always other options, they are just extremely difficult to see when you're in a depressed frame of mind.
As for what the fuck she was thinking, well she obviously wasn't thinking was she? She wouldn't have been in a rational frame of mind. People don't kill themselves unless they are in extreme distress. I'd like to see how well you can make rational decisions when your brain chemicals are fucked up and life seems like a black abyss.

there are helplines set up to help people like elizabeth and people like you my friend. they are NOT ignorant and judgemental people, they are trained! you are being the ignorant one who don't trust them.

Yes there are helplines, but I don't think you realise just how difficult it is to reach out to someone and ask for help when you're depressed. Its not as simple as going to the doctor when you have the flu. When you're too depressed to even get out of bed, you are basically incapable of doing anything. While calling a helpline might seem like a simple task to most people, when you're depressed its not that easy.
The people that work on the helplines may not be ignorant or judgemental, but you are. You are judging the poor girl for a decision she made when she was not in a rational frame of mind. You are judging her for having an illness.
I may be a lot of things, but I am not ignorant. From your posts its fairly obvious that you have never had major depression. But I have. Therefore I know more about it, and I know exactly how it feels. I've dealt with doctors and pyschologists, I've read all the literature on depression that I could find, I've studied it in pysc and I've experienced it first hand. I am not ignorant about depression.
One thing I do know is that there is a great stigma associated with mental illness, which you have done a fantastic job exemplifying.

again, i stand behind my opinion that the suicide 'victims' deserve what they did to themselves. if anyone reads this and have a good enough reason/scenario why elizabeth would have killed herself, and you would like to justify her action, share it with me.

This is quite possibly the most insensitive, ignorant and stupid thing I have ever read. How can you honestly think that suicide victims deserve to die? Most of the time they kill themselves as a result of a mental illness. An illness. Thats not something you can control. No one can control their seretonin levels any more than a diabetic can force their body to produce insulin.

For Glitterfairy. I'm glad you were able to get through it. I think its very brave that you were able to seek help and I think that its brave that you can talk about it freely when there are ignorant idiots who know nothing about it but yet still pass judgement. I can sympathise with you about your lack of support - my parents refuse to acknowledge that I have depression and my father views any display of emotion as a sign of weakness. But I've managed to find support from other places.
I totally agree with you about wishing depression on other people, although they might deserve it so they can see what its really like, when you've been through it, you realise its something that you would never wish on anyone.

 

[ash7614]

i for one having been suicidal in the past completely agree that suicide is wrong and not the way to go..

but as i knew lily i can honestly say that she was the least selfish person i have ever met.. she always put others before herself.. she would go to any lengths to put a smile on someone elses face..

you can't possibly imagine what is going on inside another persons head that would bring them to do such a thing..

everyone is entitled to their opinion yes but before you are quick to judge that all suicide victims are selfish and pathetic just have some respect and sympathy for what pain she was going through mentally, which not one person will ever understand.. to believe that suicide was her only way out..

it is despicable to have such a harsh judgement on someone and something you know nothing about..

we all wish that lil had reached out in one way or another to the thousands of people that knew and loved her dearly but what's done is done..
questions will always be asked but none of them will ever be answered..

just because one can't empathise doesn't mean they should attack..

just leave it be.. let her finally rest

r.i.p. my lil dancing angel

 

[wuddie]

I’ve asked for logical and possibly good enough reasons why Elizabeth may have killed herself, but no one has answered my call. Instead, you girls give me some weak reasons about anti-depressant and parenting issues and chemical imbalance. There are millions and millions of parents going through a divorce every day, if every time a couple goes through a divorce and their kid suicides, we’d have freaken corpses around the streets all the time. I say just wake up to yourself and live strong, it is not the world or your parents’ fault that your weak and falls into depression over the slightest thing. Pardon me if I am being too harsh, but I think YOU’RE SPOILT.

Secondly (damn I am good), you’re all seem to be saying that a patient (assuming it is a natural illness) can’t think clearly when they are in the state of depression. Not that I’ve been through a depression, and not that I ever will, I’ll have to take your words for it. So what exactly do you suppose would be the best treatment for these conditions? Take our dear Elizabeth here for example, and assuming that she suicide under the circumstance that she was depressed (bare in mind that nothing has been confirmed). She has not talked to anyone, decided to take things into her own hands and kills herself. What in the name of God could anyone have done to prevent that? NOTHING, ZILCH.

Ok let’s have a look again at what we have here – a girl who obviously comes from a loving family because she has a special gift, which is dancing, dies just before the hsc. Most of us here assume she died from suicide, which is a result of depression. She refused to seek help or talk to anyone and her actual reason of death is still unknown. Can somebody please tell me, which part of the above deserves our sympathy? That she’s depressed? No. That she killed herself? No, because she wanted it – whether she was thinking clearly or not, THAT WAS WHAT SHE WANTED AND SHE’S GOT IT.

Again, I call for a good enough reason from anyone, anyone with a freaky imagination to come with a realistic and good enough reason why Elizabeth may have been going through to cause her to kill herself, share it with us and I’ll let you know why IT IS NEVER EVER WORTH KILLING YOURSELF.

PS. I am not a jackass who takes joy out of her death, I feel sorry for her too, but not for the reason of her death. Indeed, RIP Liz.

 

[ur_inner_child]

wuddie, I know its hard to wrap your head around the idea of the inability to be assertive and optimistic. Its hard to understand how one could fall into the idea of suicide. I too occasionally feel indifferent and sometimes angry with people who consider, attempt or commit suicide. Although I don't rule out the fact that whatever is going on in their head is out of their control, particular if no one on the outside takes notice, or cares.

You're asking why Elizabeth specifically killed herself. No one is going to be able to answer that, because we don't know her life or the way she percieved it. Its absurd that you are asking this. She might have killed herself for a silly reason. She may have not. What you are demanding is ridiculous.

If you meant suicides in general, and their reason, this is what people have offered. A mental problem like depression mixed with a negligent family or shitty friends, or academic/social/physical issues can cause bad things. It doesn't take a genius to work that out, and I can understand how someone in such particular or dire situations can fall down so hard that they'll keep spiralling down.

You don't know what she had, you don't know whether she was spoilt, you have no idea. All we have is an article that refrains from telling crucial information let alone will never be able to really dig into the truth.