Difference in B Teaching/ B Education (1 Viewer)

[crystel_angel]

I was just wondering if anyone knew the difference between B Teaching and B Education. Ive been told all sorts of things such as... 1) needing a degree already before applying for B Teaching 2) not being able to teach interstate with a B Teaching and 3) getting lower pay with B Teaching as it is only a 3 year course
Are any of these true? Is there any other drawbacks to B Teaching that i havn't been told?
Im just really worried, because only 3 Uni's offer B Education in the field i want and i dont want to apply to them ( they are wagga, canberra etc) all the rest are B Teaching

 

[Slidey]

Regarding pay: I believe you are at lower pay if you do a 3 year degree as opposed to a 4 eyar degree, yes. However, obviously one year into a job, you'd be on the same pay as a person fresh out of a 4-year teaching degree. The difference is trivial.

Presumably honours counts as an extra year.

But think about it: If you can get in on 3 years, then even if the first year doesn't pay as well, it still pays a lot better than spending an extra year at uni!

Another option is to do the bachelor that interests you at whatever uni you want, and then do a Master of Teaching at the Uni of Sydney (2 years), or a DipEd elsewhere (1 year). Usyd pulled their DipEd because they believe 1 year is not sufficient to teach somebody to become a teacher.

 

[jhakka]

Another option is to do the bachelor that interests you at whatever uni you want, and then do a Master of Teaching at the Uni of Sydney (2 years), or a DipEd elsewhere (1 year). Usyd pulled their DipEd because they believe 1 year is not sufficient to teach somebody to become a teacher.

Damn straight. If I'm going to be there for at least five years for my (double) degree, everyone else can too.

 

[LeftrightOut]

Regarding pay: I believe you are at lower pay if you do a 3 year degree as opposed to a 4 eyar degree, yes. However, obviously one year into a job, you'd be on the same pay as a person fresh out of a 4-year teaching degree. The difference is trivial.

That all depends, while there is a progression scale, advancement can be denied if you suck really bad.

The important sections regarding qualifications and starting pay are in the award as

2.35 "Five Year Trained Teacher (5YT)" means a school teacher who has obtained a degree and teaching qualifications from a higher education institution which together require a minimum of five years full time study. Any period of training in excess of that normally required to complete such a course shall not be deemed to be a training period for the purposes of any other definition.

2.36 "Four Year Trained Teacher (4YT)" means a school teacher who has:
2.36.1 obtained a degree from a higher education institution and has, in addition, satisfactorily completed a teacher education qualification of at least one year's duration at a higher education institution; or
2.36.2 completed a four year teacher education degree from a higher education institution; or
2.36.3 completed such other course(s) which the Director-General determines as satisfying requirements for classification as a school teacher.

2.56 "Two Year Trained Teacher (2YT) or Three Year Trained Teacher (3YT)" means a school teacher who has satisfactorily completed a prescribed course of teacher education of two or three years duration respectively at a higher education institution, or such other course or courses which the Director-General determines as satisfying requirements for classification as a school teacher.

2.53 "Teacher in Training (Schools)" means a graduate recruited to train as a school teacher through an alternate mode course.

As for pay you are looking at the following

Classification | | | | | | Minimum starting salary
Teachers in training | Step 1
2YT school teachers | Step 2
3YT school teachers | Step 3
4YT school teachers | Step 5
5YT school teachers | Step 6

So your starting point would be

Step 6 48,614
Step 5 46,234
Step 4 43,851
Step 3 41,692
Step 2 39,086
Step 1 35,860

 

[rific]

I was just wondering if anyone knew the difference between B Teaching and B Education. Ive been told all sorts of things such as... 1) needing a degree already before applying for B Teaching 2) not being able to teach interstate with a B Teaching and 3) getting lower pay with B Teaching as it is only a 3 year course
Are any of these true? Is there any other drawbacks to B Teaching that i havn't been told?
Im just really worried, because only 3 Uni's offer B Education in the field i want and i dont want to apply to them ( they are wagga, canberra etc) all the rest are B Teaching

I don't know the differences at other unis, but I'm doing a double degree at newcastle - B Teaching/B Arts, and that requires a minimum 4 years study. At UNCLE, you can also do a B Education, which, I think, counts as a 4 year course, but the first two years are cut because you have prior experience in the field you want to teach, and the other option is the one year Dip Ed, which most people tack on to a 3 or 4 year undergraduate study. So, at UNCLE at least, which ever path you take will be roughly 4 years full time study.

As far as I understand with the B Teaching, if you want to teach interstate or internationally, you need to get a credential saying you are proficient in teaching in their preferrred system, but I can't imagine that would be too hard to get considering most places want teachers and, internationally at least, there are stacks of programs that are aimed at moving teachers around the place, so they'd be able to organise anything like that.

Good luck finding a course.

 

[Mambomeg]

thats quite impressive... as a vet, after 5 yrs uni i graduate on $35,000, going up to around $50,000 after 5-10 yrs. And teachers complain their pay is low?... i'm doing the wrong degree. i always considered being a teacher.

ON another note... where it says 2.36.3 completed such other course(s) which the Director-General determines as satisfying requirements for classification as a school teacher...

does that mean if the principal or whoever decided i could be a teacher, then i could work as a teacher without any teaching degrees?

Edit: obviously in related subjects... like i obviously wouldnt be able to teach 3 unit french etc...

 

[LeftrightOut]

thats quite impressive... as a vet, after 5 yrs uni i graduate on $35,000, going up to around $50,000 after 5-10 yrs. And teachers complain their pay is low?... i'm doing the wrong degree. i always considered being a teacher.

I'm not too up on the whole Veterinary thing but my guess is it's like lawyers and doctors, your later years salary if you know your stuff and are in the right place will eclipse those of teachers easily.

ON another note... where it says 2.36.3 completed such other course(s) which the Director-General determines as satisfying requirements for classification as a school teacher...
does that mean if the principal or whoever decided i could be a teacher, then i could work as a teacher without any teaching degrees?

The principal is nowhere near the Director Generals level. Think of the Director General as the guy right below the Minister for Education. You will notice that those in training in the Schools sector start on step 1 as per 2.53. The point of 2.36.3 to me is to examine equivalencies of potential courses done that are not strictly speaking BEd or BTeach.

They would have to have a serious shortage before they would let a veterinary graduate in as a woodworking teacher. Now if you picked something like IT then yes it's more likely they would put you through ATT https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/employment/teachnsw/acc_ttp.htm but you will end up in hard to fill positions, whether that is worth it or not who knows.

Here's the department website on qualifications needed by area to be taught https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/employment/teachnsw/teacherqual.htm

PS. This is for schools, it's a whole new ballgame for TAFE, and much nicer

 

[Slidey]

I'm not too up on the whole Veterinary thing but my guess is it's like lawyers and doctors, your later years salary if you know your stuff and are in the right place will eclipse those of teachers easily.

But the later years for a teacher who knows their stuff and is in the right place would be pretty hot too, wouldn't they? I guess right place would have to refer to things like Department Head, Counsellor, Deputy Principal, et cetera, but there's still lots of room, isn't there?

 

[LeftrightOut]

But the later years for a teacher who knows their stuff and is in the right place would be pretty hot too, wouldn't they? I guess right place would have to refer to things like Department Head, Counsellor, Deputy Principal, et cetera, but there's still lots of room, isn't there?

A Principal is more like an administrator/manager so they get paid in a somewhat similar fashion although still less than top ones would in private industry for the amount of risk they take on. Remember in every school you can only have one Principal, so it's not an easy to obtain position unless it's a really hard to staff school or you have been around more than someone else (97% of Prinicipals, DPs, HTs etc are 35+ years of age). The pay difference between top of scale teacher and HT is not that much and the amount of responsibility and stress you gain is quite large. I would not consider going HT and I have known a few who have dropped back to being just a teacher because it was not for them even though the pay was a bit higher.

A great teacher with 30 years experience will earn the same as an ok one with 10 years, does that happen in Vet science?

 

[LeftrightOut]

b teaching allows u to teach in nsw, b education allows u to teach in ne state in aust and overseas. u also get higher pay with b ed

higher pay? With the award how do you figure this?

 

[Korn]

That all depends, while there is a progression scale, advancement can be denied if you suck really bad.

The important sections regarding qualifications and starting pay are in the award as


As for pay you are looking at the following


So your starting point would be

Where did u get that?

 

[LeftrightOut]

Where did u get that?

The NSW Teachers award agreement as I stated

 

[Korn]

The NSW Teachers award agreement as I stated

Sorry i was meaning where can ppl see this document at

 

[Korn]

I'm not too up on the whole Veterinary thing but my guess is it's like lawyers and doctors, your later years salary if you know your stuff and are in the right place will eclipse those of teachers easily.



The principal is nowhere near the Director Generals level. Think of the Director General as the guy right below the Minister for Education. You will notice that those in training in the Schools sector start on step 1 as per 2.53. The point of 2.36.3 to me is to examine equivalencies of potential courses done that are not strictly speaking BEd or BTeach.

They would have to have a serious shortage before they would let a veterinary graduate in as a woodworking teacher. Now if you picked something like IT then yes it's more likely they would put you through ATT https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/employment/teachnsw/acc_ttp.htm but you will end up in hard to fill positions, whether that is worth it or not who knows.

Here's the department website on qualifications needed by area to be taught https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/employment/teachnsw/teacherqual.htm

PS. This is for schools, it's a whole new ballgame for TAFE, and much nicer

what about Accounting or Finance graduates as Business studies/economics/commerce or Accounting VET teachers

 

[LeftrightOut]

b teaching is 3 yr course

Not if you combine it with something else, then it becomes 4.

 

[LeftrightOut]

what about Accounting or Finance graduates as Business studies/economics/commerce or Accounting VET teachers

To teach TAFE you need quals + experience (18+ months worth preferred). They will sometimes employ those without experience but they value experience, sometimes more than quals.

 

[LeftrightOut]

- yeh sorry i didnt really explain myself well enough i guess, i meant straight out education courses, not combined ones

Very true. I'm a bit biased towards the DipEd myself, followed by a Masters of some sort.

 

[mishka]

at ACU we enrol as doing 4 yr B Ed but you can exit after 3 years with B Teach. The difference is salary, and where you can teach. with a B Teach, you can only teach in NSW. with a B Ed you can teach Australia wide and internationally.

At ACU in your 4th year, we can do casual teaching because we've got our B Teach. I'm pretty sure that's in catholic primary schools though. i'm not sure. the 4th year to make up the B Ed is pretty much part time so you can earn some money. :uhhuh:

 

[Mambomeg]

A great teacher with 30 years experience will earn the same as an ok one with 10 years, does that happen in Vet science?

pretty much, if you can do the job, you can do the job, it doesnt take much skill to give a vaccination. Of course, like with any career, if you are willing to do a phd, or work insane 100 hour weeks, you would probably get paid more, but in general, once you reach a level of proficiency, without specialist training, you cant get any further up, you have hit the roof, so to speak.

and on another note, we dont get 10 weeks of holidays per year.....

its a shame you sort of have to pick one career, and cant easily swap and change between two....

 

[LeftrightOut]

pretty much, if you can do the job, you can do the job, it doesnt take much skill to give a vaccination. Of course, like with any career, if you are willing to do a phd, or work insane 100 hour weeks, you would probably get paid more, but in general, once you reach a level of proficiency, without specialist training, you cant get any further up, you have hit the roof, so to speak.

I wouldn't consider vaccinating animals all the time being a vet, what about all the surgery stuff? don't most vets get into that? It's like saying it's easy to be a pharmacist because all you do is give people stuff off the shelf or fill prescriptions out of the box. Surely you do higher end stuff if you so choose, or say you specialise in farm animals and end up working for a large pastoral company and travel the countryside checking stock.

and on another note, we dont get 10 weeks of holidays per year.....

yeah, too bad i've only had 2 weeks of holidays over every Christmas over the last 3 years. The rest I have spent teaching High School kids during their holidays and doing commercial training and development work on behalf of TAFE. That's without all the assignment marking and lesson prep that also goes on.

its a shame you sort of have to pick one career, and cant easily swap and change between two....

Oh I don't know I seem to be doing ok with several different jobs none of which interfere with each other but complement nicely. I wonder how easy it is for a vet to change to something else though? Do you specialise in certain animals and when you've had enough you switch to another type or do you get out of it altogether? I don't know much about Vets as you might notice