Disadvantage going to UWS? or not? (2 Viewers)

[melsc]

I never said that it wasn't a disadvantage, I said I would hope that with hard work, I hope that I could avoid the disadvantage. I understand what you are saying, but I think you put it across poorly. Your custom status is necessary and childish, I would take you much more seriously if you put a stop to the immature posts.

 

[nwatts]

I imagine if UWS was all at one campus (say in one large building at parramatta) and had a different name (western sydney has negative connotations) there would be less hate for UWS.

No. The problems with UWS aren't around its title. And I can't imagine that combining all the campuses would serve to do a lot considering they're all specific to a faculty or area. It needs to improve its standards of education before it starts getting better recognision. If that means artificially inflating UAIs and ordering an internal audit to remove bad lecturers/facilities then go for it.

 

[melsc]

You assume that the level of education is lower, what proof do you have of this though? Many of the lectures infact have taught at USYD etc.

 

[melsc]

I am not ignoring your posts, however I do think people would see your point more if it wasn't there.

NTB you're staying at UWS?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No. The problems with UWS aren't around its title. And I can't imagine that combining all the campuses would serve to do a lot considering they're all specific to a faculty or area. It needs to improve its standards of education before it starts getting better recognision.

Lower standards in education? I dunno about that, most of my lecturers so far have been great (I've had 2 I wasn't happy with) but the rest were all fine :/

UWS School of law actually has some good lecturers - Masters from columbia law school etc - Look it up.

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The real problems:
- It's in western sydney
- It identifies its self as being in western sydney
- It is split up
- It has low uai entrance ranks
- The students aren't as good
- Low levels of funding
- Bad management from the university

 

[melsc]

fair enough

 

[nwatts]

UTS has also established a niche with being a technological uni. It's also in the centre of Sydney CBD

Oh stop talking.

 

[nwatts]

Lower standards in education? I dunno about that

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The real problems:
- The students aren't as good

How does that work?

I agree education standards aren't the only thing wrong with UWS, but for the uni to become recognised universally as a competitive player in the Sydney region, it needs to pick up its socks on the base level. What's the base level of a university? The education it provides.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

How does that work?

I agree education standards aren't the only thing wrong with UWS, but for the uni to become recognised universally as a competitive player in the Sydney region, it needs to pick up its socks on the base level. What's the base level of a university? The education it provides.

Well what they start off with is lower-quality students.

So what I want to know is why isn't the Government reviewing the management and trying to fix the perception problem UWS has? Surely if they can throw money at the other Go8 Universities they can help with the University that is giving opportunities to the majority of Sydney's students.

The way the government has tried to fix up the university has been fought against by the university management because they don't like it. They claim it will be worse for the students (many degrees/courses have been cut... mostly pet-courses of the lecturers), however at the same time aren't willing to acknowledge their own short commings.

 

[hYperTrOphY]

How does that work?

I agree education standards aren't the only thing wrong with UWS, but for the uni to become recognised universally as a competitive player in the Sydney region, it needs to pick up its socks on the base level. What's the base level of a university? The education it provides.

I think NTB was commenting on the fact that overall, UWS students aren't as intelligent as those from other universities - not that the education provided at UWS is inferior.

What evidence do you have that makes you think the education at UWS is mediocre anyway?

 

[nwatts]

Well what they start off with is lower-quality students.



The way the government has tried to fix up the university has been fought against by the university management because they don't like it. They claim it will be worse for the students (many degrees/courses have been cut... mostly pet-courses of the lecturers), however at the same time aren't willing to acknowledge their own short commings.

Well then they need to change that too.

However UOW has UAI cutoffs that aren't that much higher than UWS, yet it's recognised (properly or not) as a solid university - having recieved excellent reviews in the good universities guide, reviews etc. This is what makes me think that the quality of the students (based on UAI) isn't the be-all-and-end-all UWS critics believe it is.

 

[spillargroove]

The establishment of any specific university needs to start somewhere. The problem with UWS is maybe it's infrastructure or the way things have been introduced. It's also a problem because UWS has many campuses which requires equal funding or more for some campuses. Being that it is called "University of Western Sydney" is not such the problem because it needs to build a reputation. I would agree that the University has some problems with its image and its students; being some of lower academic ranking but it's up to the students to do whatever they can to achieve what they want. Here we are arguing about UWS when some people who have great success in what they are doing without a degree. You got to be thankful you made it to University. I wouldn't be lying in saying that UWS doesn't have problems because if there wasn't, we all wouldn't be discussing problems with UWS. But I think UWS is in a transition and one which needs better support and better Management. Just like Football in this country (I am talking about Soccer), managerial infrastructure was a major problem and is still a problem. But the sport has diversified by concising it, getting rid of people who don't know nothing about Football and managed by Football Australia. UWS cannot increase the UAI cutoffs because what is there to cutoff if there aren't many people who want to study? By improving the lecturers, facilities, UWS can start somewhere. By this, graduates will be able to find a successful career and they will compliment UWS because of their education. This is what all Universities do and this is how they build up their reputation by producing high quality graduates. Thus, this will attract future students' attentions, teachers from across the world and the Government will (hopefully), increase funding. "The problem with the University is its lower quality students". So what's the solution? Make them all go to TAFE? Every student deserves a chance. If they are not willing to work hard then that is their choice but for students who are "lower" quality, they deserve every chance to study as someone who goes to UNSW. We all have choices in life. I seriously don't care about students who are at UNSW, USYD, UTS. If you can't successfully make the transition and relate what you have learnt in the industry, your degree means shit all. You determine your degree not some piece of paper determines you.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

However UOW has UAI cutoffs that aren't that much higher than UWS, yet it's recognised (properly or not) as a solid university - having recieved excellent reviews in the good universities guide, reviews etc.

Well however students at UOW aren't really in direct competition with USYD, UNSW, UMQ, UTS.

 

[nwatts]

Well however students at UOW aren't really in direct competition with USYD, UNSW, UMQ, UTS.

True, UOW is a regional uni. But UWS isn't, and neither is UTS. Both unis are the same age (give or take a year) and have grown up with the same competition. One has excelled, the other has faltered.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

True, UOW is a regional uni. But UWS isn't, and neither is UTS. Both unis are the same age (give or take a year) and have grown up with the same competition. One has excelled, the other has faltered.

Ok but UTS is a city university, it also came from an already set-up niche in technology... where as UWS was formed in western sydney, from various schools in western sydney, with no niche. I don't see what you're trying to argue anyway? Why is it that you think UWS isn't performing as well as UTS? Perhaps we agree because I don't really understand your stance properly I think.

 

[spillargroove]

One has excelled, the other has faltered.

Exactly. I however, want to look into how they both started like a timeline. But the issue of reorganising management or infrastructure at UWS, I don't think that will happen as quickly as we would want.

 

[nwatts]

Ok but UTS is a city university, it also came from an already set-up niche in technology... where as UWS was formed in western sydney, from various schools in western sydney, with no niche. I don't see what you're trying to argue anyway? Why is it that you think UWS isn't performing as well as UTS? Perhaps we agree because I don't really understand your stance properly I think.

UTS started off as a less attractive university in Sydney - having to compete with MQ, USyd and UNSW, three very well established unis and lacking the quick injection of students a western-based uni would benefit from. It would have suffered from the same funding issues UWS would have in its early years. It would have taken low TER scores, because otherwise how could it possibly compete with USyd and the like? It endured the same beginnings as UWS with regard to the problems you mentioned earlier, yet has risen up to become a very competitive university in a tricky area.

This is why the problems with UWS must be education-oriented, and to a lesser but still important degree, its management. UTS threw away everything it wasn't good at (do you see any phil units at UTS?) and poured its resources into what it excelled in.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

UTS started off as a less attractive university in Sydney - having to compete with MQ, USyd and UNSW, three very well established unis and lacking the quick injection of students a western-based uni would benefit from.

UTS started off as a technology college, with an already established niche and student base... it simply expanded to become a university, it was a natural progresion. You're right that it did compete against these universities, and it did well - however of course... it was right in the city still.

UTS threw away everything it wasn't good at (do you see any phil units at UTS?) and poured its resources into what it excelled in.

Here I agree with you - UWS should focus on specialised areas, that have particular importance for Western Sydney. In this way I think the Medical school is a great step - as would be placing more emphasis on the criminology degree.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

As I said, any bad teaching would be a result of being poorly taught at the uni's the lectures went too.

Not necessarily... I mean you can have highly educated people whom perhaps have not put together a very good program for the subject.

 

[spillargroove]

I believe gradually UWS will be fully recognised as a competitive University just like the sandstone Universities. However, for the time being, students already at UWS will have to face the problems or issues.