midnight_magick said:
yes, but what if we are of a different religion? do these 'god rules' still apply to us? or must every single human being believe in this god, and those who just happen to be of a different faith be subject to god's damnation?
I believe Jesus is the only way to the Father. I believe this because I believe what he said... This is an example from Luke 13:22-30
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'
"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'
"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
I believe that there is only ONE way to God, and yes that does limit your options. Very people who are looking for God will actually find him. Anyone trying to enter his kingdom through a entrance way that is not an enterance way is a robber.
You may think that's not fair. BUT you are given ample warning! If you want to come inside come in through the door! Why look around for another way in?! There is no other way...
This may prompt the response "Well, what if YOU are wrong and Jesus was just a man?"
That has a simple answer. If this Jesus is not who he said he was, if he was not raised from the dead and if what he said was not the word of God... I am to be pitied above all men! If only for this lifetime do I have faith in Christ then I am to be pitied.
To quote a Dogwood song "I have a faith noone believes, I love a God noone can see..." on top of that I deny myself earthly pleasures for the greater pleasure of glorifying God. I put my hope in something beyond this life, and if after I die there is nothing then I will let you pity me.
But as it stands, I'm convinced of what I believe, I trust what God has revealed to me through his word and through his Spirit and my citizenship is in heaven where Christ has made it possible for me to go.
SashatheMan said:
Not a single text exists from jesus himself or from a person who knew jesus in flesh.
only texts we have of them are dated decades after his death.
Umm... The Gospel according to Matthew was written by Jesus disciple... Matthew. He was a tax collector until Jesus called him to follow.
That's an interesting thing too. A tax collector with a nice, cumfy job and an income that's a much as he likes would not give up his position for just any man. It would take a big change of heart to change from being someone who lives for themself to being someone who lives for God.
And then he would have had 3 years of walking around with Jesus and getting to know him and probably even writing down some of the things he said.
Several times Jesus sends out his disciples to preach the kingdom of God to the surrounding countries. What Jesus recieved from God, he passed on to his disciples. And what he passed on to his disciples they passed on to everyone else. So several times the disciples would have had to present the gospel message just as Jesus would have presented it if he were doing it. I dunno about you, but when i practice a speech for a while I start to remember it pretty clearly.
Then at Pentecost, the twelve recieved the Holy Spirit and were made apostles (messengers or sent ones). This meant they were sent out into ALL the world to present the exact same message. This message they would have presented and lived out every single day of their lives. It's something that they treasured dearly and would not forget.
I would say John knew Jesus in the flesh too... but there is some debate about whether he was the apostle John or whether he was someone else.
Paul is the main contributor to the text of the New Testament. There was another man how had an encounter with Jesus. He had a very specific experience meeting the Lord on the road to Damascus.
On top of that, Paul was different to all the other apostles because he was VERY learned. He was very familiar with the texts of the old testament and he could read and write in several different languages. He would no doubt have written lots of stuff down.
After he was converted, he went back to Jerusalem to meet the other apostles. And I'm sure that when he was there, the Apostles would have told him everything that Jesus has taught them. And I bet Paul would have taken it all in and all down so he can present the teaching to others.
Then there is Luke. He was a doctor. Paul brought the Gospel to him, and you can just imagine that someone as scientifically minded as a doctor would want to know all about what he is hearing. So for ages he would have followed Paul listening intently to everything he said and writing it down.
The Gospel according to Luke, and the book of the Acts were both written by him because he wanted to present a clear, no nonsense message to the person he was writing to. You can almost tell how excited he is when he writes these words! It's like he's saying "Everything I am writing to you is true and can be vouched for by the apostles. This is what Jesus did... It's hard to believe but it is all true! This Jesus was amazing!"
SashatheMan said:
we are not denying that jesus didnt exist, or the places he lived are not real, we are saying that jesus was nothign more then a person, and in noway does it prove the existance of god.
Jesus claimed that he was in the Father, and the Father was in him. I believe the bible to be historically accurate, and as such I believe these to be the true words of Jesus. No mere human could have God dwelling in them, nor could they have any place in God. It's a supernatural thing and as such I believe that Jesus was more than a person.
I believe that he is fully God and fully man as well.
SashatheMan said:
i ignore god, why is nothing happeneing to me RIGHT NOW IN THIS LIFE?
So... you're inviting the wrath of God upon yourself because you ignore him now and nothing has happened so there is no reason to care?
As i said earlier. God is quite fine by himself and he doesnt need you to acknowledge him to have a sense of worth. BUT having said that, you are a child of his and you were created to give him glory.
In ignoring him, you are falling short of what your very purpose in life is. Whether you are conscious of it or not you are in an active rebellion against him. This makes God angry and rightly so.
God is slow to anger and his desire is that all people may bring him glory. But we desire to honour ourselves rather than honor him. We find our pleasure in things that are not as pleasurable as delighting in God.
Because of this, God has set a date where he will judge the nations according to how they performed their task of giving him glory and you will have to say "Well... I didn't go out of my way to take glory from you... I just didnt do anything to give it to you..." and he will punish you ETERNALLY for that.
And don't think I get off lightly either! God will ask me the same question "How did you bring glory to me?" and all the ways in which I have failed and continued to fail in glorifying him will be laid before him and he will be as disgusted with them as he is with your sin.
The difference is that I have put my trust in Christ and in what he said. I have admitted in this lifetime that I am stubborn and rebellious and that i seek my own glory. But when I became a christian, I gave my sin and my rebellion to Jesus and it was dealt with on the cross.
Now there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. My debt has been paid in full and as such i can spend eternity with God, glorifying him as he intended.
The only other thing i have time to say at the moment is about the prophecies. MS said that all prophecies fit into these dodgey little boxes which shows they're untrue. But I thought about it, and Isaiah 53 is a prophecy that doesnt.
Retrodiction: Isaiah was a prophet several hundred years before Jesus was born. The Jews believe in this text as well and know that Christians have not changed it to create a fufilled prophecy.
Vagueness: This prophecy is very specific in its detail. It is not vague. It does not say "This thing might happen... but if it doesnt this other thing might take its place"It says this is what will happen. And in Jesus it was fulfilled.
Inevitable: I dunno about you, but I think being killed in this way would be very inevitable.
Denial: Since nobody is debating whether Jesus existed or not... I dont think people would have a problem with skipping this one.
Self Fulfilment: I think it would be impossible to fulfill this prophecy as specifically as Isaiah has told it. Even with this prophecy, the people still did not believe that Jesus was this man. I highly doubt that someone seeking to self fulfil this prophecy would be very pleased with themself if nobody was going to believe they were someone special.
With a bit of twisting and turning... you could maybe get one or two to awkwardly fit into those catagories. But the claim was that "all prophecies easily fit into one or more of these catagories." I hope that you can see that NOT ALL prophecies do.
Not to mention there are soooooo many prophecies that Jesus fulfilled and if the best you can do is quote a couple that did not come true (for various reasons), I invite you to do a bit more reasearch