• Best of luck to the class of 2024 for their HSC exams. You got this!
    Let us know your thoughts on the HSC exams here
  • YOU can help the next generation of students in the community!
    Share your trial papers and notes on our Notes & Resources page
MedVision ad

Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


  • Total voters
    1,568

KFunk

Psychic refugee
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Messages
3,323
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
When it comes to the existence of god, don't we have a special case? The proposition "a god exists" is unfalsifiable, unlike "the number of hairs on my leg is even" or similar. Due to this, the one putting forward the positive existential claim has the burden of proof, and the one who is denying the existential claim only requires there to be a lack of evidence to the contrary.
Firstly, a problem emerges if you want to demonstrate that the proposition is unfalsifiable, for unless the relevant concept of 'god' entails that the existence of god is unfalsifiable I can't see, intuitively, how you could possibly demonstrate unfalsifiability by empirical means. Note that there are plenty of conceptions of god which are potentially falsifiable. In order to make your argument hold generally you would have to argue that the only possible form of god is an unfalsifiable one.

I agree that burden of proof lies with the individual wanting to assert the existence of god, but I still think agnosticism is a tenable position. If you read my post from a few pages back I identify an example of an entity, prime matter, which can neither be imagined nor observed - yet it remains unclear, for me at least, whether we should deny its existence.
 

BradCube

Active Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,288
Location
Charlestown
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
It is in cases where it is impossible to know that I think burden of proof is most interesting. More correctly, we know that proof is impossible either way in such cases so it is not a matter of burden of proof so much as intellectually responsible assumption.
I too find it very interesting. You've prompted my mind in your dialogue in wondering whether it is even possible for something to exist without having evidence of it's existence (note that evidence in this case goes far beyond verificationism). What does it mean to say that something exists without that something having any impact or evidence of it's existence? I am inclined to think that if an entity has absolutely no evidence or proof of it's existence - it probably doesn't exist in reality.

In saying this though, I wish to make sure I am understood correctly. My statement could be miss-interpreted as, "If I find no evidence for the existence of an entity, it probably doesn't exist". The difference confuses epistemology with ontology. I am not addressing whether an entity exists based on our methods of knowing the evidence for the existence of said entity. Rather I am addressing whether an entity actually exists (and not whether we can know it exists) if it is incapable of providing evidence of its existence.

To make this doubly clear I will use the recent prime matter as an example.

I am not arguing that a lack of evidence for prime matter justifies our belief that it does not exist.
I am asking whether prime matter actually exists if it is incapable of giving off any evidence for its existence.

Debate with respect to what constitutes a good epistemic position? Or with respect to whether we should allow a criteria which allows for individual definitions of epistemic warrant? (Or both!?)
I was thinking of what constitutes a good epistemic position. I don't know how someone would (or even if they could) debate the latter. It would seem to me that all people should be bound by the same level of justification for rational belief - just as how all people are bound by the rules of logic.
 
Last edited:

SylviaB

Just Bee Yourself 🐝
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
6,877
Location
Lidcombe
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
As soon as you get a whiff of knowledge of Him and willfully choose not to follow Him, youre cooked, boyow
Thar's yer problem.

I don't know he exists; seems more like a 2000 years of unreliable hearsay.
Mmhmm
'Life isn't fair , anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.' You better believe it.
God is supposedly benevolent.
 

Iron

Ecclesiastical Die-Hard
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
7,765
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
Yes, but why should His benevolence be matched to your standards? I believe CS Lewis likened Him to a carpenter and us to an ordinary house; at first we welcome the minor repairs he makes - fixing leaks, replacing windows etc. But then He starts doing things that we cant understand and dont welcome! He knocks out whole wings, tears out staircases, bulldozes gardens and starts building other stuff and it hurts! And we're all like 'No! I juz wanted to be an ordinary humble cottage!' and Heee's all like 'Stfu! I'm building a palace which will make you fit for me to live in' and yer:cool:
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
352
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
you have to understand that these people have not come to their conclusions through rational and independent thought, and you can hence not persaude them through rational discourse....it is best to treat them as astrologers or people that believe elvis is still alive: pat them on the head and when they get sick say 'wheres your god now b****'.
 

Iron

Ecclesiastical Die-Hard
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
7,765
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
Hey Iron, the mods deleted our other thread?? did i miss something? :confused:
:confused:
The mods arent very good around here, i'm afraid. I would encourage you to unleash a flood of spam until they resign in exhaustion
 

x.christina

I am actually a cat
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,810
Gender
Female
HSC
2009
Uni Grad
2016
I am 17 going on 18
I know that I'm naive
Fellows I meet may tell me I'm sweet
And willingly I believe
 

x.christina

I am actually a cat
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,810
Gender
Female
HSC
2009
Uni Grad
2016
I need someone older and wiser
Telling me what to do
You are a man of steely Iron
I'll depend on youuuuuuuuuuu :eek:

/proceeds to dance around
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 4)

Top