Does God exist? (14 Viewers)

[astroman]

no we are made of stardust, Carl Sagan made us not God

 

[astroman]

rekt

 

[Sy123]

no we are made of stardust, Carl Sagan made us not God

rekt

Your stardust is a contingent thing as it is given to motion and change and other occurents

So where did you get your stardust from?

 

[astroman]

big bang -> interstellar plasma -> stars -> supernovae -> star dust

 

[Sy123]

big bang -> interstellar plasma -> stars -> supernovae -> star dust

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/daniel-jacobs-giovanni-lorenzo-face.gif?w=640[IMG][/QUOTE]

what caused the big bang? The Big Bang is an occurent event, thus it must have a cause, as all occurents have a cause

 

[astroman]

the big bang is a theory and its evidence is through observing an expanding universe, proving that the universe began from a singularity, God is an idea made by man.

 

[astroman]

rekt

 

[Sy123]

the big bang is a theory and its evidence is through observing an expanding universe, proving that the universe began from a singularity, God is an idea made by man.

rekt

Did you read my post where I refuted your views?

Did you comprehend it?

Do you need me to explain it for you?

 

[Danoraptor]

The monotheistic faiths claim to be a source of theological knowledge, religion tells you what is right or wrong, religion tells you that you are created by a creator, who is wholy perfect and wholy powerful.

Religion lays out a path towards the divine, religion gives us purpose to fulfill

Religion tells you that homosexuals should be killed, religion tells you that the world was created in 7 days which is CLEARLY false, religion tells you that god made people when they evolved over time. Religion is a man made construct to explain the unknown. Why do you think Jesus went UP to heaven? Because the people writing the bible at the time had limited knowledge of what was up in the sky so they tried to explain it by saying that heaven was up there. We've been up there, no heaven. Its really just a manifestation of the context.

The only reason religion exists today is because children are indoctrinated into these belief systems since a young age. If people approached religion with an adult ability to understand and reason, there would be very few religious people.

 

[Sy123]

Religion tells you that homosexuals should be killed, religion tells you that the world was created in 7 days which is CLEARLY false, religion tells you that god made people when they evolved over time. Religion is a man made construct to explain the unknown. Why do you think Jesus went UP to heaven? Because the people writing the bible at the time had limited knowledge of what was up in the sky so they tried to explain it by saying that heaven was up there. We've been up there, no heaven. Its really just a manifestation of the context.

Yeah some religious people definitely have bad and untenable beliefs, I agree, but that doesn't mean religion in general is bad or false.
If you really think that 1st century people thought that heaven was literally in the sky, then I think you have been misled, people were not that ignorant at that time.

Anyway I am not going to spend my time defending the Bible, this thread is about whether God exists, and I'm a Muslim.

The only reason religion exists today is because children are indoctrinated into these belief systems since a young age. If people approached religion with an adult ability to understand and reason, there would be very few religious people.

Is that the reason why there are so many theologians and philosophers and scientists who do believe in God? Are they all deficient in intellect and believe in things like a child? Or do you think they perhaps have reasons for their belief?

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Do you really think religion is just a game or a joke? There are perhaps only a couple hundred million people who don't adhere to a religion in the entire world, is everyone else deficient in intellect?

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Nevertheless the status of religious people in general is largely irrelevant, what do you think about the demonstrative proofs that I have given for the existence of God?

 

[Danoraptor]

Yeah some religious people definitely have bad and untenable beliefs, I agree, but that doesn't mean religion in general is bad or false.
If you really think that 1st century people thought that heaven was literally in the sky, then I think you have been misled, people were not that ignorant at that time.

Anyway I am not going to spend my time defending the Bible, this thread is about whether God exists, and I'm a Muslim.



Is that the reason why there are so many theologians and philosophers and scientists who do believe in God? Are they all deficient in intellect and believe in things like a child? Or do you think they perhaps have reasons for their belief?

---

Do you really think religion is just a game or a joke? There are perhaps only a couple hundred million people who don't adhere to a religion in the entire world, is everyone else deficient in intellect?

---

Nevertheless the status of religious people in general is largely irrelevant, what do you think about the demonstrative proofs that I have given for the existence of God?

I think some of your demonstrative proofs are plausible. I did not enter this discussion with the stance of an atheist, mind you. However, the existing belief systems such as islam and christianity have moral, gendered and sexual ideologies that I think are absolutely incorrect, so I cannot believe in the associated gods. I do not mean any offence by this.

 

[Menomaths]

Lol this thread is about the existence of God not disproving any religion so don't say you don't believe in God because a particular religion said the earth was created in 7 days. That doesn't disprove the existence of God, rather the religion.

 

[Danoraptor]

Lol this thread is about the existence of God not disproving any religion so don't say you don't believe in God because a particular religion said the earth was created in 7 days. That doesn't disprove the existence of God, rather the religion.

in your opinion

 

[Sy123]

in your opinion

No, it is literally true

 

[Sy123]

I think some of your demonstrative proofs are plausible. I did not enter this discussion with the stance of an atheist, mind you. However, the existing belief systems such as islam and christianity have moral, gendered and sexual ideologies that I think are absolutely incorrect, so I cannot believe in the associated gods. I do not mean any offence by this.

So your argument goes:

1 - If Islam or Christianity is true, then they ought to teach us morally good values

2 - Islam and Christianity teach bad moral values

3 - Therefore, Islam and Christianity are false

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The premise for dispute is premise number 2 (and as I will show, if you wish to press a defense of premise 2, you will call into doubt premise 1), if you say, there are certain laws in Islamic law that are barbaric, or backward, or are immoral, then this needs proof, you need to firstly:

- Give a framework for what is considered moral and ethical, objectively
- Show that under this conception of morality, that premise 1 of the original argument is true
- Show that this conception of morality is ultimate and is ultimately what we mean by morality
- Show that this morality contradicts the explicit teachings of scripture

 

[Danoraptor]

So your argument goes:

1 - If Islam or Christianity is true, then they ought to teach us morally good values

2 - Islam and Christianity teach bad moral values

3 - Therefore, Islam and Christianity are false

---

The premise for dispute is premise number 2 (and as I will show, if you wish to press a defense of premise 2, you will call into doubt premise 1), if you say, there are certain laws in Islamic law that are barbaric, or backward, or are immoral, then this needs proof, you need to firstly:

- Give a framework for what is considered moral and ethical, objectively
- Show that under this conception of morality, that premise 1 of the original argument is true
- Show that this conception of morality is ultimate and is ultimately what we mean by morality
- Show that this morality contradicts the explicit teachings of scripture

yeah I guess youre right

 

[Amundies]

Religion tells you that homosexuals should be killed, religion tells you that the world was created in 7 days which is CLEARLY false, religion tells you that god made people when they evolved over time. Religion is a man made construct to explain the unknown. Why do you think Jesus went UP to heaven? Because the people writing the bible at the time had limited knowledge of what was up in the sky so they tried to explain it by saying that heaven was up there. We've been up there, no heaven. Its really just a manifestation of the context.

The only reason religion exists today is because children are indoctrinated into these belief systems since a young age. If people approached religion with an adult ability to understand and reason, there would be very few religious people.

1. The New Testament says to love one another. You're talking about rules from the OT. What happened is that the rules in the NT "replaced" the ones in the OT.
2. The point of Genesis was to show God's magnificence, it was NOT a scientific journal with timestamps to show us how He made the universe.
3. You can't reach Heaven by just building a space rocket and going far into space. That wouldn't be Heaven, that'd just be another planet.
4. According to a 2012 survey, 36% of the world's population is not religious (this means that 4,480,000,000 people in the world are religious) and 40-50% of those who are not religious still believe in there being a higher power, meaning that a total of 5,740,000,000 people (4,480,000,000 + 1,260,000,000) believe in a higher power. Now look at the world around you. You don't have to be an engineer or a scientist to appreciate just how many innovative things humans have come up with due to their "adult ability to understand and reason". If people approach work with the ability to understand and reason, what makes you think that they don't approach religion with the same ability? Is it just because you disagree, therefore they mustn't be thinking about what they're doing?

 

[Graney]

 

[Feynman]

The double dichotomy proof of God


1) A metaphysical dichotomy between the set of all possible all inclusive states of existence and no states of existence proves that no states of existence cannot be the case, because our universe is real.

2) A metaphysical dichotomy between the set of all possible all inclusive states of existence that can become real and the set of all possible all inclusive states of existence that cannot become real being those possible all inclusive states of existence that contain two logically possible but contradictory states proves that the set of all possible all inclusive states of existence that cannot become real cannot be the case, because our universe is real.

3) Because our universe had a beginning and does not need to be real, and because something must be real without our universe being real due to the fact that no states of existence cannot be real, then there must be something real without our universe being real proving that all inclusive states of existence that can become real must be possible in reality.

4) Because the set of all possible all inclusive states of existence that can become real is infinite because one can imagine any given universe with the addition of just one more thing ad infinitum, then there cannot be a probability for any given universe because the set is infinite.

5) But because the universe is real, then there must be something real which determines what becomes real among the infinite set of all possible all inclusive states of existence where said determination is not based on probability or random chance.

6) Because something can be real and our universe not be real, then there must be a power to create the real such as our universe, and as there is a power to create the real, then there must be a power to determine what is real based on an order of preference.

7) Because the set of all possible all inclusive states of existence that can become real is not inherently ordered, and because it is possible to determine based on preference which possible all inclusive states of existence come into reality, then there must be a real eternal constraint that determines through will and intellect to allow any or all of these possible all inclusive states of existence to become real.

8) Because the actualization of any or all possible all inclusive states of existence that can become real requires the constraint to actualize them, then the constraint cannot be made and therefore must be infinite pure act without moving parts.

9) Said constraint must have power over all possible all inclusive states of existence that can become real being omnipotent and omnipresent.

10) Said constraint must have knowledge of all possible all inclusive states of existence that can become real being omniscient.

11) Because the mind of the constraint is omnipresent and hence within all of us, our minds are contained within the mind of the constraint which calls all of us to be Sons of the constraint.

12) Hence, a single being exists who is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, is not made, and has a will and intellect and we call this being God.

 

[financialwar]

half of the voters belief there is god?