Does God exist? (17 Viewers)

[sam04u]

So, you're proposing that even a completely 'probable' electric arrangement would reoccur every time? (Like in a computer where the roll of a dice is completely based on probability a number is literally chosen at random based on an electrical process but then...)

Yeah, I guess you're right, that would be like expecting time travel to occur differently... like literally... ahh

It's like going 'back' in time wouldn't all the actions be replayed... I guess so... It's hard to understand really...

Then again this theory concurs with mine on 'conditioning'. If we have no free will then I guess, It makes this topic a little more difficult.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Nope, definately wrong. There is Free-Will to a relative extent and the outcomes of the universe could happen many different times over. (Based on chemical reactions in the brain). Think about a game of 'Hang-man' sometimes one insignificant arrangement of neurons propagating electrical signals. Sometimes It's completely coincidental, and even if it happened twice it would result in a different impulse. A different answer, which could theoretically change the outcomes of mankind significantly.

I don't understand what you're saying so I can't reply.
Edit: In response to webby, I've read a bit about that but I can't say I understand enough about quantum mechanics to begin to comment too much about it.

There is only one reason which would explain why 'god' would create mankind.

No, there are almost unlimited possible reasons.... Your guess is equally as likely as any other I can make up.

It's almost every mans dream to be immortal, the man who followed religion would have an immortal life of pleasures and happiness beyond human emotions.

It's almost every mans dream to fuck lots of hot chicks. We have alot of dreams/aspirations that are common, what made you pluck out one then decide that's god's criteria for getting into heaven?

 

[sam04u]

NTB, I just explained that 'god' would know who would be faithful and not and therefore there is no logical reason why god would create the universe anyways especially when knowing the outcomes. God would have nothing to prove to mankind and no need to prove it to himself.

NTB, It's not my fault you don't understand what I'm saying basically I may be wrong but sometimes In the brain an electrical signal is totally based on probability, there are hardly any factors which 'govern them', but even so they may be replicated each time. It's in relation to your comment on whether or not man would make the exact same decision each time resulting in a linear universe making it possible to predict the future each time if you took into account 'everything'.

Even so, I've asked is it possible that god is using us to answer his questions as we use computers to answer ours? We're equipped with a very different type of imagination and some evolutionary tools as apart of out body which makes us a perfect question being and able to ponder such questions. Eg(eyes), If mankind and other species from earth didn't have eyes which detect 'light' as opposed to the hundreds of other things which would have been more beneficial eg(Heat, Radiation, and so many others) we would never have been able to look at the stars and wonder what they are. Perhaps, never leaving the earth at all. (Do you see the logic?)

There aren't many logical explanations to why god created us If you can think of others feel free. I like to believe in the idea of a 'test' of faith but only in relation to being immortal, you argue that it is almost every mans dream to be with alot of women? Well how about men that do have alot of women? It's only because man want what they can't have and the one thing man may never have is 'unconditional' immortality.

I know a God exists because God created the universe, one day man will be able to replicate this It's not impossible at all, but the way in which God created our universe is very different. By making the First Law..(which relates to physics), It would result in a universe exactly like ours, we could create replicate our universe sure, but never could we define laws such as the first law which created our universe. The Law of Energy, that energy exists.


Here is the Law, Energy exists, only a finite ammount of energy exists and it is exactly this: eg( 9.99x10^999999),
All other laws are a condition of the first law, eg Energy is transferable (since energy could not exist as a 'soup' or as a 'mist', it needed to be in matter as a part of matter, so matter existed. (as a condition of 'energy') Matter needed governing quickly all the other rules of physics were created eg(Matter is transferable and also not lost therefore gravity needed to be created to maintain matter as an energy form, all matter has energy which cannot exist in a state of inertia therefore it balances itself by gravity which is the attraction of other energy.)

I could slowly explain how all the other laws of physics came about as a result of the first 'inimitable' law which was created by GOD. (God exists, argue it, deny it, hate it, love it....)

End....

 

[Not-That-Bright]

NTB, It's not my fault you don't understand what I'm saying basically I may be wrong but sometimes In the brain an electrical signal is totally based on probability, there are hardly any factors which 'govern them', but even so they may be replicated each time. It's in relation to your comment on whether or not man would make the exact same decision each time resulting in a linear universe making it possible to predict the future each time if you took into account 'everything'.

Yea but I'm pretty sure it's already been explained to you why that is wrong.

We're equipped with a very different type of imagination and some evolutionary tools as apart of out body which makes us a perfect question being and able to ponder such questions. Eg(eyes), If mankind and other species from earth didn't have eyes which detect 'light' as opposed to the hundreds of other things which would have been more beneficial eg(Heat, Radiation, and so many others) we would never have been able to look at the stars and wonder what they are. Perhaps, never leaving the earth at all. (Do you see the logic?)

I see the logic, but that obviously makes god NOT all-powerful.

There aren't many logical explanations to why god created us If you can think of others feel free.

Well for one, perhaps there was no purpose? Perhaps he created the pretty universe and we were merely a by-product of the creation of that universe?

like to believe in the idea of a 'test' of faith but only in relation to being immortal, you argue that it is almost every mans dream to be with alot of women? Well how about men that do have alot of women? It's only because man want what they can't have and the one thing man may never have is 'unconditional' immortality.

How's bout this one. Man also cannot have all knowledge, right? So perhaps the test of faith is for us to use all the knowledge we have available, all the science we have and intelligence we can muster about the world to come to the best conclusion possible. If that is the test, then imo, alot of atheists and fewer theists will have passed

I know a God exists because God created the universe

If you consider 'God' to just be the one that started it all (despite the problems with that) then I suppose I believe in a God too, some sort of natural process that began it all... I see no need to give it consciousness or any of the attributes normally attributed to what a 'God' is - therefore I put it to you that if it is a 'God' you have stretched the definition of that word so far to make it almost devoid of meaning.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

What god? Young people reveal their secular side
6 August, 2006 - SMH

FEWER than half of Australia's young people believe in a god and many believe there is little truth in religion, a new study has found.

The three-year national study, a joint project between Monash University, the Australian Catholic University and the Christian Research Association, found many young people followed a secular, rather than a religious path.

The study, The Spirit of Generation Y, found just 48 per cent of Generation Y, defined as those being born between 1976 and 1990, believed in a god.

Andrew Singleton, from Monash University, a co-author of the study, said they were surprised by the findings. [...]

The survey, of 1619 people, found 20 per cent did not believe in a god and 32 per cent were unsure.

Meanwhile, 31 per cent of Generation Y were classified as humanists, rejecting the idea of a god, although some believed in a higher being.

Dr Singleton said that by comparison, baby boomers now had higher levels of regular churchgoers and believers in a god. Instead, those in Generation Y had more in common with their Generation X counterparts - those born between 1961 and 1975.

He said the trend away from organised religion was likely to continue. "We live in a very individualistic society and I don't see a lot of things challenging that," he said.

"One of the many predictors of whether we become religious is our parents and unless there is a massive cultural shift, the trajectory will continue," Dr Singleton said.

The researchers said many young Australians were humanists, rejecting belief in a god for a belief in experience and reason.

Anglican Bishop of South Sydney, Robert Forsyth, said the results were expected.

"This is the first generation who probably know nothing about Christ, except those who go to Christian schools," he said. "It is sad, but in my view, it is entirely what we expected to happen." [...]

- Full Article

 

[Not-That-Bright]

This is the first generation who probably know nothing about Christ, except those who go to Christian schools

Oh yes... it's because they know NOTHING about religion, not because they know alot. I'd like a test of religious knowledge between believers and non-believers.

Anyway, promising study and seems quite odd considering what we can see in america and what I believed was a generally more conservative australia emerging. I wonder however how many of those whom do not believe in God have some other form of spiritual belief? Either way any number near 20-30% of youths is quite encouraging (to me).

 

[c_james]

I would just like to add that Robert Forsyth is an idiot.

 

[littlewing69]

Oh yes... it's because they know NOTHING about religion, not because they know alot. I'd like a test of religious knowledge between believers and non-believers.

Yes. The apthetic generally have little knowledge, but a high percentage of those who actively identify themselves as atheist often have good knowledge of religion.

And I'm not quite sure how he linked individualism to atheism...

 

[c_james]

If you consider 'God' to just be the one that started it all (despite the problems with that) then I suppose I believe in a God too, some sort of natural process that began it all... I see no need to give it consciousness or any of the attributes normally attributed to what a 'God' is - therefore I put it to you that if it is a 'God' you have stretched the definition of that word so far to make it almost devoid of meaning.

NTB is quite correct. The traditional definition of a God is tri-omni - He must be omni-benevolent, omniscient and omnipotent. The mere fact that something or someone was behind the creation of the universe doesn't necessarily mean that entity (if any) is all good, all powerful and all knowing. So it transpires that saying "I know a God exists because God created the universe" doesn't prove anything besides some superstitious belief.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yes. The apthetic generally have little knowledge, but a high percentage of those who actively identify themselves as atheist often have good knowledge of religion.

Yea, but I can see this possibly changing in the future. As atheists become more common and raise more atheist children, I see no reason to imagine they'll be any different to the religious children that just 'fall into' the religion from birth. It is possible tho that there is a natural inclination towards theistic belief and that alot of atheist children will grow up to be theists (a larger percentage than theists that turn atheist)... but we'll have to wait to see for as far as I know there's little solid research into this area.

 

[gerhard]

In the article in the paper they had little grabs from young people on whether they believed in god with their picture beside. there was one cute girl and so they made her picture like 4 times as big as the others. i lolled.

 

[proverbs31girl]

How can you possibly believe in something like this that flies in the face of all evidence? God, if he exists, chooses not to answer the vast majority of prayers, even if they are well-meant. Do you honestly believe that any hungry individual who prays to God for food will be fed?

yes i do! and i mean it with all my heart.. based from the bible and my own and other peoples experienceses,.. people that pray will recieve 'if you believe it will', even if prayers arnt answered straight away those who are persistant do recieve, an i apologize , it wasnt just directed at food but other things aswell, that was just one example. And i agree with you that not all peoples prayers are answered, their will always be poverty death ect even if they have prayed, such things must happen in life.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yes i do! and i mean it with all my heart.. based from the bible and my own and other peoples experienceses,.. people that pray will recieve 'if you believe it will', even if prayers arnt answered straight away those who are persistant do recieve, an i apologize , it wasnt just directed at food but other things aswell, that was just one example. And i agree with you that not all peoples prayers are answered, their will always be poverty death ect even if they have prayed, such things must happen in life.

wtf mate?

 

[littlewing69]

people that pray will recieve 'if you believe it will', even if prayers arnt answered straight away those who are persistant do recieve,

And then...

And i agree with you that not all peoples prayers are answered

WTF mate? is as good as I could put it as well.

 

[proverbs31girl]

Christ = Jew.

Don't be daft, you haven't experienced God either. What, you think because you prayed to pass an exam, and passed it, that God answered some last minute prayer of yours? Short of him possessing your hand and writing your exam response for you, such 'miracles' have nothing to do with God.

soo you know my whole life story, and every single experience i have experienced? you knew that i was going to take my life away, untill i started going to church? you feel the way i feel, and saw the lady i saw in a weelchair and left WALKING her wheelchair out! of what authority were you given to tell me i havnt experienced GOD in my life? no i myself cant prove to you His existance, but i know he is real.

 

[proverbs31girl]

That was my point.



True. Brainwashing helps as well.

oh now they have invented a machine to brainwash everyone, and we get taught classes of how to brain wash people,. (sarcastic)

 

[*Ninny-mole*]

I don't want to offend anyone by voicing my views, because I myself don't like being force-fed what I should and shouldn't believe, but I am agnostic.
I believe in some supernatural power existing, but i find it impossible to believe in Jesus and all that stuff in the Bible. It just isn't logical or reasonable to me.
And I have to say that I agree with littlewing69, I cannot believe that all God's prayers are answered. The poor are still hungry despite how strong their faith is, people still die of cancer regardless of how many prayers are said, and many innocent children, teenagers and families are killed in car crashes, house fires and so forth, for no apparant reason. I'm sorry, but to me, even someone who believes in the existence of a higher being, cannot honestly say that all prayers will be answered.
I have prayed myself to the God that 'may' exist and none of my prayers have been answered. It may be because my faith is not strong enough, or because my prayers are selfish, but the same cannot be said for all those with an undisputable belief in their God, who are injured, hurt, suffer inhumanities or die in unfair, unreasonable circumstances.
That is basically why I don't believe in God. My "half-belief" in a supernatural power is the only way for me to attempt to find comfort in the fact that there is something to look forward after death.

 

[c_james]

soo you know my whole life story, and every single experience i have experienced? you knew that i was going to take my life away, untill i started going to church? you feel the way i feel, and saw the lady i saw in a weelchair and left WALKING her wheelchair out! of what authority were you given to tell me i havnt experienced GOD in my life? no i myself cant prove to you His existance, but i know he is real.

Nope, I don't know about your suicidal tendencies, but I do know that whatever 'saved' you wasn't God. It was probably your blind belief in what you perceive to be your God. You didn't experience crap. By your logic, I can just as validly say this: I was going to kill myself, but then I experienced the devil, and all was well. Of what authority am I to tell you that you haven't experienced God? I'm not an authority, but reason sure is. As for the lady walking out of the wheelchair - not everyone who uses a wheelchair is permanently incapacitated.

 

[littlewing69]

oh now they have invented a machine to brainwash everyone, and we get taught classes of how to brain wash people,. (sarcastic)

Wait. You're an Islamic suicide bomber? Because that's who I said was brainwashed.


(if you do it properly, you won't have to write "sarcastic" next to your misguided vitriol)

 

[proverbs31girl]

Actually based on the census data, the number of christians as a percentage of the population has been continuosly declining since 1954. If you had read the link I posted, you would see that it was from a christian perspective discussing the decline in church attendance. I think it is the extremes that are on the increase, while the moderates are gradually turning away from christianity.

But anyway, that wasn't the point I was making. I was just showing the statistics to support the previous posts, which was relating to the previous post about following your parents religion.

cool it dosnt matter to me hey, my point was that you wouldnt know the truth because you dont belong to a church and experience it.