Does God exist? (15 Viewers)

[gibbo153]

well played.
but no, that has nothing to do with what i said

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

no, we all deserve hell, some of us are covered under God's grace because we believe and live for God, and Jesus paid our ransom

All? What about all those people who have never sinned?

The punishment they are supposed to receive is death. but jesus took their punishment for them, so if they believe in him they won't be sent to hell. so if they skip punishment down here, from what i know, its lucky for them lol.

Don't you find that hard to believe? If as you said, god wanted people to live in a society where crimes were punished, why wouldn't he contiue this in the afterlife? Why let those who committed crimes be free and not be punished?

another thing to realise is god's omniscience. he is infinitely intelligent, just and compassionate.

he knows the intention of our hearts. people who go 'oh yeah ill just convert on my death bed yiew heaven eshays', well god can read their hearts. chances are that someone like that does not have real faith in jesus for their salvation and won't be saved anyway.

in regard to people who 'never hear' the word and then can never be saved, i again refer to god's omniscience. he created those people, he knows more about them than they or anyone else will ever know. and in his infinite wisdom and judgement will be able to judge them accordingly.

my aunty's first child died two days after birth. which was hard for us all. but god made the child, and knew everything about it, and will be able to know what to do.

people think judgement is basically a production line of people then god is at the front with a hell/heaven button and you get in if you said magic words liek 'ok god im a christian now' at any time during your life. its not really like that. you can't beat the system by trying to becom saved on your deathbed. god knows every intention of your heart

A sinner can still believe in religion though. Just because someone kills another human, it doesn't mean they don't believe in god. BUT if they DID believe in Jesus&god, then they get off and don't seem to get punished for whatever sins they have committed, correct?

the bible says we are saved not by our own works, we cannot earn salvation by 'leading good lives' as you say. jesus says 'noone comes to the father except through me'. leading a good life does not get you into heaven. only faith in jesus

Why bother 'leading good lives' or at least trying to, if you won't go to heaven because of it? You have to believe in Jesus to get into heaven? Shouldn't your belief in god be more important than your belief in Jesus?

 

[gibbo153]

All? What about all those people who have never sinned?

in theory yes. but apart from jesus, noone has or ever will lead a sinless life

A sinner can still believe in religion though. Just because someone kills another human, it doesn't mean they don't believe in god. BUT if they DID believe in Jesus&god, then they get off and don't seem to get punished for whatever sins they have committed, correct?

believing in god and trusting in him for your salvation are different things. satan believes in god.
but yes a committed christian could do something like that. becoming a christian doesnt make you somehow able to not sin anymore. you aren't made into a magical new angel person.

edit: also, its not like they escape punishment, they could go to jail. but in reference to god, they only get 'off' the hook because jesus was put 'on' the hook

Why bother 'leading good lives' or at least trying to, if you won't go to heaven because of it? You have to believe in Jesus to get into heaven? Shouldn't your belief in god be more important than your belief in Jesus?

in answer to the first sentence, thats my point, so become a christian =]
secondly no, jesus and god are the same thing. understanding the concept of the trinity is hard to get your head around but they are both of equal importance.

also belief again is not a good term to be using i spose. lots of people 'believe' in god, but have no idea about what jesus did for them or the implications it could have if they don't get told

 

[gibbo153]

$hiftyIceQueen -> Read up on "Original Sin".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin

theres a pretty succint explanation of it.

 

[HalcyonSky]

its a bit of an unreasonable question to ask someone to explain parts of christian belief without reference to the bible.

the bible is actually more historically credible as a source than a great deal of the sources we use for our information on like Julius Caeser etc

look up some stuff about John Dickson's 'The christ files'

p.s do not try and discredit what i just said unless you have had a look at the christ files.. its also a video and is probably on youtube.

yur a bundle of laughs

 

[tommykins]

I'm not sure. I suppose trying hard enough constitues trying to find ways to him, through many different avenues. Also, leaving yourself open to believe, without any other innuendoes or anything. Also, faith that he is there and will help you. other than that i'm not sure. I was born into a christian family, but i was always allowed to choose what religion i wanted to follow (if any) there was no pressure on me to follow christianity, so i suppose i've never had to try and "seek" god.

Done all that, no reply.

And I don't think I can lead to 'faith'.

It's like doing a maths question and having 'faith' and skipping 4-5 lines of working to arrive at an answer.

 

[Josip Broz Tito]

holy fuck: once again.
religion and 'God' have no relation to one another.

religion is a form of control and a brainwashing tool, which people who cannot form their own opinions and who do not have an explorative opinion of their own, tend to follow.
in other words, it is like believing in some fucked up fairy tale which has a fucked up moral at the end.

 

[gibbo153]

yur a bundle of laughs

sigh yeah i didnt really expect many to not just rebut without actually looking at it.

it explains the way that the bible's documentation is closer (often by a huge amount) to the time of the events it documents than many many well known historical events.

also that the number of different sources of it is also vastly superior to other sources about other events.

worth a look for a sceptic such as yourself

 

[hermand]

no, we all deserve hell, some of us are covered under God's grace because we believe and live for God, and Jesus paid our ransom

wow. that sucks.

do you not find that demeaning? to be told that no matter what you do, that you deserve hell?

Done all that, no reply.

And I don't think I can lead to 'faith'.

It's like doing a maths question and having 'faith' and skipping 4-5 lines of working to arrive at an answer.

hear hear.

lol at the ability to relate it to maths. awesome.



also, isn't the bible not historically true? but supposedly 'spiritually' true?

 

[gibbo153]

holy fuck: once again.
religion and 'God' have no relation to one another.

religion is a form of control and a brainwashing tool, which people who cannot form their own opinions and who do not have an explorative opinion of their own, tend to follow.
in other words, it is like believing in some fucked up fairy tale which has a fucked up moral at the end.

haaha

 

[auerbach]

Ofcourse not, and religion and God may be separate entities by definition; but the vast majority of people who believe in GOD follow some sort of RELIGION. So in practice, the two are inseparable.

 

[Josip Broz Tito]

yes but those who do believe in God and are part of some religion, have not actually discovered God's true identity or the proper sense of spiritualism because they have been given force fed shit.

 

[Josip Broz Tito]

haaha

oh naive, young child.

 

[nikolas]

sigh yeah i didnt really expect many to not just rebut without actually looking at it.

it explains the way that the bible's documentation is closer (often by a huge amount) to the time of the events it documents than many many well known historical events.

also that the number of different sources of it is also vastly superior to other sources about other events.

worth a look for a sceptic such as yourself

Given my experience with him, i highly doubt he did not look at it.

If he hasn't its not really a big deal since that video tells us nothing we didn't know before, we have already discussed the bible as a source in another thread.

But in response, the bible is a credible as the Iliad.

 

[HalcyonSky]

sigh yeah i didnt really expect many to not just rebut without actually looking at it.

it explains the way that the bible's documentation is closer (often by a huge amount) to the time of the events it documents than many many well known historical events.

also that the number of different sources of it is also vastly superior to other sources about other events.

worth a look for a sceptic such as yourself

'the bible' = 1 source

 

[nikolas]

in theory yes. but apart from jesus, noone has or ever will lead a sinless life

Did the babies commit adultery?

The original sin is bullshit. I don't care if my great grand dad was fornicating with a donkey while committing ritual murder. I should not bear the guilt of his actions.

 

[Kwayera]

its a bit of an unreasonable question to ask someone to explain parts of christian belief without reference to the bible.

the bible is actually more historically credible as a source than a great deal of the sources we use for our information on like Julius Caeser etc

look up some stuff about John Dickson's 'The christ files'

p.s do not try and discredit what i just said unless you have had a look at the christ files.. its also a video and is probably on youtube.

Aaaah that old chestnut again.

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

believing in god and trusting in him for your salvation are different things. satan believes in god.
but yes a committed christian could do something like that. becoming a christian doesnt make you somehow able to not sin anymore. you aren't made into a magical new angel person.

edit: also, its not like they escape punishment, they could go to jail. but in reference to god, they only get 'off' the hook because jesus was put 'on' the hook

I meant it as in, they believe in god and follow him.

&it is them escaping punishment, that's why i think it's not right. If you have an afterlife then hell should be open to murderers and rapists, they should be punished for their actions. You shouldn't be allowed to get away with something.

in answer to the first sentence, thats my point, so become a christian =]
secondly no, jesus and god are the same thing. understanding the concept of the trinity is hard to get your head around but they are both of equal importance.

also belief again is not a good term to be using i spose. lots of people 'believe' in god, but have no idea about what jesus did for them or the implications it could have if they don't get told

ha. no ty. i think i'm safe as i am ;]
So if Jesus&god are the same thing, then why refer to god as the 'Father'? Why do people say 'Jesus died'? Or 'why didn't God save Jesus'?

Eh. I think it's fine :/

$hiftyIceQueen -> Read up on "Original Sin".

just did it.


And i get what you meant by everyone being sinners, but meh. Still, shouldn't be seeing people as sinners because of other people's actions :/

 

[Josip Broz Tito]

Originally Posted by gibbo153
in theory yes. but apart from jesus, noone has or ever will lead a sinless life

Can you fucking hear yourself?

 

[Darnie]

umm no. i said not the bible. something with a bit more.. substance?

can you point me to a book (or group of books) that have history of climatic and geometric events from that era?