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Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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i guess i believe cos i just cant prove that 'God' doesnt exist?

its lik any good theory.. if there is a 'God'? how bout prove God isnt there?..
i cant prove the contradiction, so i go on my hunch (like 'faith') and the comfort i hav of knowing its there
 

Not-That-Bright

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oh if you believe because you can't prove god doesn't exist that's not a very good idea,
cuz like... you can't 'prove' that i'm not god either, you can't 'prove' that there's not a monkey living in your ear telling you your thoughts..
 

+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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haha i checked.. no monkeys in my ear... i got the hunch u not God either ;)
 

MoonlightSonata

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+Po1ntDeXt3r+ said:
i honestly dont kno how to 'prove' it.. in fact i dont think u can

its too subjective.. the faith has helped me in my life and the belief keeps me going.. action --> results so i choose to believe it..

honestly i once saw a death and the only peace i got was my faith

godels theorem and Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle just showed me that science isnt goin to get me all the way..
I understand

But still that's a reason for adopting the belief, not as to the validity of the belief. I mean if I got comfort from believing that I was a millionaire, it does not mean that my belief that I am a millionaire is correct.
 

MoonlightSonata

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eviltama said:
MoonlightSonata: I believe in the existance of a/the God/s because in nature there is a chain... always on this chain there is someone above you, with more power than you, and so on. That is why i believe in the existance of something/one i cannot touch, hear, see or have any sort of physical relationship with. This is of course my reason.. and my reason only.
Might I ask who is above God?
 

+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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u dun dictate my life do u?
... btw i still think that because i cant the prove the non-existance it has to be coupled with my earlier comment that i choose to believe because God answers my requests.. actions--> to results ..

i wouldnt be that single minded.. well i try not to be..

yer i dun kno.. mabbe God could work thru u.. its not my place to explain it..
 

Not-That-Bright

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no no... you're claiming that because there's no proof god doesn't exists, he does.
That's quite flawed...

Can you prove, beyond all doubt, that you are a real living person, just as you perceive yourself to be, and not a disembodied brain in a mad scientist's laboratory being fed complex stimuli?

You cannot. Is that a good reason to believe that you are just a brain in a jar?

I would say not. However, to take the thinking of some fundamentalists to it's logical extreme, it might well be a good reason to believe it. It cannot be proved false, so it must be true. Alternatively, if there is any slight possibility of error in a scientist's data (and in science, nothing is ever 100% proven - scientists always publish the known margin of error) then it is safe to assume that the theory is completely wrong (especially if it contradicts the religious facts - which, you will notice, have no margin of error).

We have to draw the line somewhere. If there is a wealth of strong evidence from a variety of different sciences supporting a theory, and little or no solid evidence to refute that theory, then should we accept the theory as being quite close to the mark? Or reject it because we can conceive of any number of far-fetched and impossible-to-prove (i.e. unscientific) hypotheses that would invalidate it were they true?

In science, if one piece of solid evidence is found that refutes a particular theory, then that theory must be wrong - it can be shot down by a "magic bullet". For example, if a fossil human skull was found wedged between the teeth of a fossil T. Rex, then the theories of evolution, paleontology and many other sciences would be fatally flawed. Unfortunately, this does not seem to apply to religious beliefs - if you find a dozen good reasons to show that Noah's Flood did not happen, the true believer will simply cling onto all the remaining reasons and continue to believe regardless of any fatal flaws in that belief. If a true believer were Captain of the Titanic, the scene might have been something like this:
"Captain! We've hit an iceberg! We're sinking!"
"Nonsense, laddy. This ship is built of the finest steel."
"What's that got to do with it? We're taking on water!"
"Maybe so, but our engines are among the best in the world."
"Are you mad?!? We're going down!"
"Don't worry so - this ship is unsinkable. It says so here in the manual, and I have total faith in that."
"The ship is breaking apart! We're all going to die!"
"Balderdash. See how the Swiss-made clocks still function perfectly. And the fine oak-panelled walls - what craftsmanship. How can such a vessel sink?"
"Aiee! glub.. glub.. glub.."

I claim that there is a tiny green elephant hovering behind your head right now. You cannot see it or touch it, but it's there. Can you prove me wrong? Does that mean I'm right?

I claim that I am God, and I created the universe ten seconds ago, with all your memories in place. Can you prove me wrong? Does that mean I'm right?

In science, there is no such thing as absolute proof. There are theories and hypotheses, and evidence to support or refute them. Nothing can be proved absolutely - you have to draw the line somewhere.
 

MoonlightSonata

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+Po1ntDeXt3r+ said:
u dun dictate my life do u?
... btw i still think that because i cant the prove the non-existance it has to be coupled with my earlier comment that i choose to believe because God answers my requests.. actions--> to results ..

i wouldnt be that single minded.. well i try not to be..

yer i dun kno.. mabbe God could work thru u.. its not my place to explain it..
Simplified:

1. You make requests to what you believe is a God
2. You observe results relating to the fulfilment of those requests
3. God must have fulfilled your requests
C. Therefore there is a God

Even I have prayed for something and it has happened. But to jump to the conclusion that a supreme being must have caused that to happen is very dubious reasoning. It does not follow from the fact that your prayers were fulfilled that there is a God. How much do you pray for that doesn't happen? How much do you get hurt or have bad things happen to you? I'm sure that there is some sense of "seeing what we want to see," and overlooking the things which would demonstrate it is just fate unravelling, or mere coincidences.
 

eviltama

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Who is above God? I dunno. Ask him if you ever meet him. I can only believe in him, so it also implies that i believe in those above him (which in a way i do believe in them also... the chain continues on and on infinitly... a ladder would be an appropriate analogy also because perhaps as we move on from this reality we move up or down the ladder (or chain))
But all of this is not backed in anyway by facts... just thoughts and my own belief.
 

+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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very little i asked for isnt answered.. because i try not to be unrealistic..
l kno one thing for sure... " the harder i work the luckier i get"
the existance of God ... i cannot proved absolutely.. and we may not.. lik bigfoot.. ..
*sigh* i love bigfoot..
.. certain things are just so consistant with my theory..
 

Not-That-Bright

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like what?
All theists pray to their gods. They will probably say that their god (be it Ganesh, Jah, Yahweh, Allah, Zeuss or any of the thousands of others) hears their prayers, replies to them, and possibly even acts on them.

Which is more likely -

* there is one god who hears all prayers from all religions, and responds (even to conflicting prayers)?
* there are many gods who hear the prayers from only their own followers?
* only one true god hears prayers and the followers of other religions are deluding themselves? (even though they all claim similar results.)
* there are no gods to hear any prayers, and prayer is nothing more than religious meditation, self-delusion or public posturing?
 

+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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btw curiously does anyone who doesnt believe in the existance of a god and also believe that abortion is wrong?,,,
cos i need ure views for an assignment discussion..
 
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danie

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Just because something seems untangible doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just like "love" you can't see it, can't touch it, many times it's unfathomable but people believe in it. In fact many people want it. Just like religion/God fills up a spoiritual void in many people's existence.

However I acknowledge religion has been distorted but I would say the foundation of them would be pure.

Nietzche: In truth, there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross.

I know it probably contradicts what I'm saying, but something to ponder on I guess.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Jesus was a jew.

'love' is a concept conjured up by humans to explain an emotion, that's like saying 'you cant' proove happyness!, therefore there must be god!'..

if you're saying God is a concept conjured up by humans to explain mysteries, comfort them.. "fill the hole in their lives", then i agree with you. This doesn't make god real.

I can use your concept that "Just like "love" you can't see it, can't touch it, many times it's unfathomable but people believe in it", to prove that Santa Claus exists... or that one of the many gods of ANY religion exists, what about the gods that no one prays to anymore from 1000's of years ago? were they just jokes?
 

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hey, Not-that-bright... don't u have an exam or something to be studying for... or have u been here argueing the same thing over and over again because nobody can read back a few pgs and see our conclusions?!


and everything is somewhere...
 

danie

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Not-That-Bright said:
Jesus was a jew.

'love' is a concept conjured up by humans to explain an emotion, that's like saying 'you cant' proove happyness!, therefore there must be god!'..

if you're saying God is a concept conjured up by humans to explain mysteries, comfort them.. "fill the hole in their lives", then i agree with you. This doesn't make god real.

I can use your concept that "Just like "love" you can't see it, can't touch it, many times it's unfathomable but people believe in it", to prove that Santa Claus exists... or that one of the many gods of ANY religion exists, what about the gods that no one prays to anymore from 1000's of years ago? were they just jokes?
Thank you, you have just refuted one of the most acclaimed philosophers of the nineteenth century Friedrich Nietzche. We can continue to question the existence of God but you'll find that like this thread it has no definable answer. I guess it would be hard for an Atheist to believe in a higher order just as it would be for religious people to believe that there is nothing.

So I gather you believe in NO god/s whatsoever. I mean there are Theists who believe in a higher power just not necessarily one/s that "exist".

So you put everything down to science?

Science can't explain ANYTHING and EVERYTHING.
 

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Ned: Homer, God didn't set your house on fire.
Rev. Lovejoy: No, but He was working in the hearts of your friends and neighbors when they came to your aid. Be they Christian, Jew, or... miscellaneous.
Apu: Hindu! There are 700 million of us you know.
Rev. Lovejoy: That's just super...

Ha! unrefutable proof that there exists one and only one god :p
 

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