Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[Generator]

There's a school of belief that says that belief is the food of gods.. the more powerful the belief, the more powerful the god. therefore without belief, a god could theoretically die.

Small Gods.

 

[lengstar]

play Black and White. its a game where you are the God and you control this animal avatar that does your bidding.

 

[jumb]

I love that game. Apparently the theory behind the game comes from norse I think.

The basic idea, is that if there is no God, and you pray, one will be created. And the rest is what malkin said.

 

[Monkey Butler]

Ok so you're saying that the Bible can be proven false...how? There is historical evidence that some of the things are true ie parts of Noah's ark was found on a mountain. God is the one and only God :uhhuh: There is historical evidence!!!!!!!!!!

*bashes head against wall*

 

[Jase]

Well I can't be bothered to join in on the deep conversation so far... so i'm just going to cut in intrusively and create my own.

EVERYONE JOIN THE UNITARIAN UNIVERSALISTS. THIS IS NOT RELIGIOUS PROPANGANDA... I REPEAT. THIS IS NOT RELIGIOUS PROPAGANDA. JOIN NOW AND YOU WILL RECIEVE TWO FREE TICKETS TO ETERNAL SALVATION. !!

*ahem* but seriously, the Unitarian Universalists are the most sane religion i've yet come across. They don't have a creed, you dont even have to believe in God.. tending to focus more on personal and spiritual growth and civil rights. The unitarians were a split of from the Church.. rejecting the trinity, and the Universalism was a doctrine saying that every human on earth would eventually go to heaven regardless of orthodoxy (which most classical orthodox christians would consider as heresy)

Have a look at it, just so you agnostics and atheists and secularists are aware that there can be religions that don't flaunt God's power and denounce other religions. But it's still safer to call yourself agnostic or secular.

For an unbiased documentary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

Oh and to add as a summary, I guess you could call them a bunch of Humanitarian Hippies - minus the woodstock.

 

[Vezzellda]

Ok, moonlightsonata, this is what I wrote a few pages ago and I think you must have missed it because I didn't receive a nit-pick on every point made.

We may not be able to "prove" the existence of God, as defined as an invisible, higher power, but as I point out here there is something hard that we can definitely prove or disprove:

Ok, woh, lets see here. Why don't we stop with this whether the bible is true or not because that is just going around in circles. Ok, if we're talking about Christianity the more important thing to work out whether it happened or not, whether it is true or not is the person of Jesus. If everything Jesus claimed and did was false Christianity is codswallop and Christians are to be pitied over all mankind, but if everything Jesus said and did was true, then Christianity is true, because Jesus claimed to have died and risen from the dead (yes he was definitely dead) and I hope we all agree that this is physically impossible without the help of some higher power than ourselves (and there was definitely no technology back then). Physical death is final, Jesus claims to have risen from the dead and not only that he also predicted that he would. Ok then, lets see:

There are many many historical documents which document the life of or make reference to Jesus, and a variety of them are non-religious, Jewish and the like. If you even bother to investigate some of the evidence before putting it in the too hard basket, you will see that there are many many more times the documents documenting the life of Jesus than documenting the existence of Caesar Augustus, the occurrence of ancient historical events and figures that we accept to be accurate without a second glance. (I won't go into the accuracy of the actual copying and manuscripts at the moment).

Ok, and I have to address a point here that annoys me no end, that is when people say that Jesus was just a good teacher or a good man. Hello, a good teacher does not go around claiming he is the son of God, despite how perfect a life he might lead. A man who claims he is God but who is not, is either a liar or a loony. Therefore, the only options for this Jesus fellow are: the biggest liar ever, a psycho crazy madman or God. I think that the only way we can work this out is to read first historical books, then the books which have been written to draw all the evidence together and give you the opportunity to make a conclusion yourself. One man, a famous author and committed atheist, Josh McDowell, set out to actually disprove the life and story of Jesus by researching all the evidence thoroughly. However, in the end the book he produced was one that proved Jesus existed and was everything he had claimed to be, McDowell had been convinced by the hard evidence. For anyone interested its called; "Evidence that demands a verdict."

Alrightey now I have that off my chest, what do you guys say?

Okay then, can I just another two cents into this morality tangle we've got ourselves in. God invented humans in his image. A sense of right and wrong doesn't come from the bible, as some people have been claiming in here, how can it when most of the globe hasn't read it? It comes from the very way we were created and made as humans. We were created to be God's people, to have the ability to have a relationship with our creator, to be in the image and likeness of our creator.

even if you have had no contact with the bible, many many years ago, other people in your family line, or friends of your family, would have had some kind of contact with with the bible. Morals and thoughts are passed on by mouth, and watching the way people live their lives.

Yeh, sorry mossup, the bible is not were morality come from.

Ah well, that's all for now.


"What may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:19-20

 

[hmm?]

according to Christians Jesus died on the cross (and later re-appeared)
according to (some?) Christians Jesus is God.
therfore, according to (some) Christians "God" died

 

[Vezzellda]

Re: God dying issue-
According to Christians Jesus is fully man but also fully God, he is God in human form, so could still physically "die". The Trinity is made up of God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit. All are one, but different. Tis a complex idea, and I'm still figuring it out for myself.

 

[hmm?]

For me, this is the major flaw in Christianity. An apparently monothesistic religon has introduced 3 characters representing God.
I cannot believe that God can be associated with as human at all.
(this is, i realise, trekking away from the subject of this thread)
grrr!!!
haha

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Well I can't be bothered to join in on the deep conversation so far... so i'm just going to cut in intrusively and create my own.

EVERYONE JOIN THE UNITARIAN UNIVERSALISTS. THIS IS NOT RELIGIOUS PROPANGANDA... I REPEAT. THIS IS NOT RELIGIOUS PROPAGANDA. JOIN NOW AND YOU WILL RECIEVE TWO FREE TICKETS TO ETERNAL SALVATION. !!

*ahem* but seriously, the Unitarian Universalists are the most sane religion i've yet come across. They don't have a creed, you dont even have to believe in God.. tending to focus more on personal and spiritual growth and civil rights. The unitarians were a split of from the Church.. rejecting the trinity, and the Universalism was a doctrine saying that every human on earth would eventually go to heaven regardless of orthodoxy (which most classical orthodox christians would consider as heresy)

Have a look at it, just so you agnostics and atheists and secularists are aware that there can be religions that don't flaunt God's power and denounce other religions. But it's still safer to call yourself agnostic or secular.

For an unbiased documentary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

Oh and to add as a summary, I guess you could call them a bunch of Humanitarian Hippies - minus the woodstock.

That sounds interesting... a tolerant religion.. who would have thought

 

[mossup]

have a look at Christadelphia while your at it.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Ok, moonlightsonata, this is what I wrote a few pages ago and I think you must have missed it because I didn't receive a nit-pick on every point made.

Yes sorry.. I shall nitpick now

Ok, if we're talking about Christianity the more important thing to work out whether it happened or not, whether it is true or not is the person of Jesus. If everything Jesus claimed and did was false Christianity is codswallop and Christians are to be pitied over all mankind,

Yes

but if everything Jesus said and did was true, then Christianity is true, because Jesus claimed to have died and risen from the dead (yes he was definitely dead) and I hope we all agree that this is physically impossible without the help of some higher power than ourselves (and there was definitely no technology back then). Physical death is final, Jesus claims to have risen from the dead and not only that he also predicted that he would.

That seems straightforward: if Jesus existed, and everything that he said was true, then Christianity is true. But the supressed premise there is that Jesus said everything that was recorded of him. And even if Jesus did say everything that might be recorded about him, it does not follow that everything he said was true - I mean I might say a lot of true things but it doesn't follow from that that everything I say is true.. I'm not sure if I am interpretting you correctly here - if I'm not, sorry - perhaps you could rephrase a bit to make it clearer for me

There are many many historical documents which document the life of or make reference to Jesus, and a variety of them are non-religious, Jewish and the like. If you even bother to investigate some of the evidence before putting it in the too hard basket, you will see that there are many many more times the documents documenting the life of Jesus than documenting the existence of Caesar Augustus, the occurrence of ancient historical events and figures that we accept to be accurate without a second glance. (I won't go into the accuracy of the actual copying and manuscripts at the moment).

I think that, based on the amount of historical evidence, there is a strong indication that there was actually a man by the name of Jesus who existed roughly around the relevant time. It doesn't follow that he was the son of a God though, or that he did all those things Christians talk about

Ok, and I have to address a point here that annoys me no end, that is when people say that Jesus was just a good teacher or a good man. Hello, a good teacher does not go around claiming he is the son of God, despite how perfect a life he might lead. A man who claims he is God but who is not, is either a liar or a loony. Therefore, the only options for this Jesus fellow are: the biggest liar ever, a psycho crazy madman or God.

Being crazy doesn't preclude you from being a good person. I might be delusional in that everytime I see a taxi I think it is made of newspaper, but I could also be extremely compassionate and devote my time to reducing poverty. Similarly, being crazy does not rule out you being a good teacher. The greatest marksman in the world might be the best to teach you how to shoot, but also might be very sadistic and enjoy picking off hapless pedestrians, or some such evil.

I think that the only way we can work this out is to read first historical books, then the books which have been written to draw all the evidence together and give you the opportunity to make a conclusion yourself. One man, a famous author and committed atheist, Josh McDowell, set out to actually disprove the life and story of Jesus by researching all the evidence thoroughly. However, in the end the book he produced was one that proved Jesus existed and was everything he had claimed to be, McDowell had been convinced by the hard evidence. For anyone interested its called; "Evidence that demands a verdict."

Sounds interesting, I'll add it to my reading list

 

[neo o]

Debating over the historical legitamacy of the Bible doesn't disprove or prove the existance of god.

Everything comes down to subjective relativism and "gut feelings". God can't be proven or disproven, and God represents different things to different people.

However, in the end the book he produced was one that proved Jesus existed and was everything he had claimed to be, McDowell had been convinced by the hard evidence. For anyone interested its called; "Evidence that demands a verdict."

Been there, done that.

The book is a good intellectual resource, but as I said before, the gospel goes beyond the accuracy of the bible, the book only engages in intellectual gymnastics in an attempt to prove the accuracy of (mainly) the new testament.

 

[mossup]

indeedy do

 

[hmm?]

Say Jesus did exist (which i believe he did) - this doesnt prove that he is God still..argh..someone?!

 

[lengstar]

God and Jesus can be seen as separate entities. I see a few similarities between Buddha ans Jesus. God on the other hand is altogether something else.

 

[Comrade nathan]

God and Jesus can be seen as separate entities. I see a few similarities between Buddha ans Jesus. God on the other hand is altogether something else.

The person who said there is evidence for Noah's ark. This is bullshit no evidence has been found. There have been photos that people like to claim show a ark this just biased, the try to make out a shadow is a ark. Maybe you missed the docoumentory awhile ago.

 

[lengstar]

The person who said there is evidence for Noah's ark. This is bullshit no evidence has been found. There have been photos that people like to claim show a ark this just biased, the try to make out a shadow is a ark. Maybe you missed the docoumentory awhile ago.

You obviously haven't been paying attention. I don't believe in Noah's Ark at all. In fact I'm atheist last time i checked. I'm saying if there was evidence of Jesus, which the idea seems more likely, that he can be likened to Buddha.

 

[Comrade nathan]

I wasn't talking to you. A couple pages back a person has quoted someone saying there is historical proof of the arc and that they cound bits. This is just not true.

Happy you advanced bitch face

 

[lengstar]

Grammar Police...Grammar Police I need your help.