Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

I do study philosophy, and i have read some philosophy books by christians.. not in particular about their ethical values, but about their fundamental 'truths'

 

[Not-That-Bright]

it's not the only peice of the puzzle that fits.
there are 1000's of reasons presented by 1000's of religions, alot of them without god or gods.

 

[thejosiekiller]

So you haven't been influenced by religions at all?
I do not like using science... i have tried NOT to use science, i'm using logic.


And you know how powerful he is how? or do you just know that he is more powerful than we can ever know? where did you get this idea from?

I agree, obviously it's ok to forget about logic.. (which you DID use to come to your decision that god exists) and just believe in something for the sake of belief.


I gave you a perspective on what the 'point of it all' could be, i guess i'm pretty god-like eh?

its not about what influences me- its my perceptions on life. i dont need u or any1 to tell me otherwise and just because u say the oppostie of everything i say doesnt make faith meaningless- it means u r in capable of such a thing, just as i am unable to accept that life can be proven by science

the idea that god (whoever/whatever) is powerful isnt about "power" as u percieve it, it relates to not being able to even imagine hwo the world came came into existence and the purpose of it all. that knowledge that we cant/will never have is what makes him more powerful than us

and ur not god cause i think no matter what marks u get in science doesnt make u any closer to god

u didnt give me a perspective at all cause i think of u just like thos ppl who walk away from a test thinking they r smarter than others for doing well in a multiple choice and asnwer booklet section- get off ur high horse and challenge ur thinking

ive thought about science and life- and science is a byproduct of life u go on about logic, but ur logic has no foundatiuons because all ur attempting to do is challenge ppl's perceptions by saying anything but what they r saying- being a 'smartarse' (and i use that term very lightly) doesnt make this thread or ur ideas right

i know i shouldnt go on- it is ur belief...........but dont try and be controsversial on something beyond anything and everything

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I challenge my thinking all the time..

all ur attempting to do is challenge ppl's perceptions by saying anything but what they r saying- being a 'smartarse' (and i use that term very lightly) doesnt make this thread or ur ideas right

So it's wrong for me to pose questions to them that give them the answers they don't like?

A part of the rules of this was not to simply say 'i believe because it is my faith' yada yada... that is all you have done.

I am not saying 'this is my belief, you must believe it', i have asked simple logical questions to all the 'proof' that god exists, it's up to you to answer it.

I'm sorry that you think i'm smug, arrogant.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

i dont think ur understanding- do u understand the concept of faith

if u believe in the impossibler then why do u demand things be proved for it to be real? just because u cant feel or see something doesnt mean it doesnt exist

and my argument that god is above human understanding is acceptable, since even u said "to explain the unexplainable prior to modern logic and scientific understanding"- that is correct i doubt the organised religions as well, but it cant possibly in essence discredit god in anyway

the argument is we are not on the same level as him- u can wait for proof ur whole life and not understand the most important things in life are intangible

"God exists just because he does can never win. I look forward to everybody seeing when they die that there is nothing there." that meakes no sense in the first part, and the second part is not what god is about at all- life is not about waiting to die to see if god exists

ur proof is wrong

To say God is above human reason, therefore he exists, is potentially the most invalid, absurd argument posed so far.

That's like me saying, "well the flying goat-god Gorgamel who likes throwing lightening bolts at Greens party members, is ABOVE human reasoning, so he must exist."

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Since when does logic come into the equation? How could it ever? I reiterate; you will never prove or disprove the idea of the supernatural. The idea that you're arrogantly waiting for an individual to persuade you otherwise is laughable.

If you don't want to take part in the argument, and keep saying "you can't prove either way so STOP discussing it," then don't bother reading the thread ok? There are some people who want to discuss this, philosophically, logically, and believe there is value in discussing and interchanging ideas.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

oh and Moonlight:
""we don't know what caused it, so it must be God!" you used this as a negative example, are you aware that man kind discovered neutrons, neutrino's, electrons and radio waves by using this same method of thinking, as it is the only piece of the puzzle that fits...

1. The best possible solution does NOT prove that it is the solution
2. Moreover it seems highly fanciful that it is the best possible solution!

 

[MoonlightSonata]

its not about what influences me- its my perceptions on life. i dont need u or any1 to tell me otherwise and just because u say the oppostie of everything i say doesnt make faith meaningless- it means u r in capable of such a thing, just as i am unable to accept that life can be proven by science

There is no complication here. You cannot prove the existence of God, yet you believe in it. What more is there?

the idea that god (whoever/whatever) is powerful isnt about "power" as u percieve it, it relates to not being able to even imagine hwo the world came came into existence and the purpose of it all. that knowledge that we cant/will never have is what makes him more powerful than us

The knowledge that you cannot understand something proves that there is a supernatural being that solves your mysteries?

ive thought about science and life- and science is a byproduct of life u go on about logic, but ur logic has no foundatiuons because all ur attempting to do is challenge ppl's perceptions by saying anything but what they r saying- being a 'smartarse' (and i use that term very lightly) doesnt make this thread or ur ideas right

i know i shouldnt go on- it is ur belief...........but dont try and be controsversial on something beyond anything and everything

Logic has no foundations? How do you know anything? How do you know that 2 + 2 = 4? How do you know that, if I am a man, and men are mortal, then I am a mortal? Logic and reason is the way to prove something. You want to accept something without evidence, which makes no sense. I've said this over and over, but if I pronounce some ridiculous view, like "I was kidnapped by a flying sea-turtle," you wouldn't believe me without me being able to justify my belief.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

in the end i know i cant convince u or should i even try to make u realise god is more powerful than u can ever know

Well now that you mention it the belief in God is certainly more powerful than I ever knew... it has made you unequivocally accept the existence of God without any evidence! To overpower a human beings common sense and reason like that is certainly powerful.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

When the first humans ran in fear from a bolt of lightning; felt the horror of a mother and baby dying in childbirth; witnessed a mountain explode in a fountain of molten rock; saw a comet plough through the firmament; watched one friend survive an unlikely accident when others perished; noticed the changing of the seasons;wondered where we came from and where we are going - they asked for an explanation.

Gods, Godesses, demons, angels, spririts, ghosts and goblins have long been the standard answer. Every year, a new god is created. People find a new Holy Object to bow down to, begging for luck, healing, blessings or for a message to be passed to a dead relative. During your lifetime, how many people have claimed to be the incarnation of one god or another, and gathered a following of thousands of devout believers? How many psychics are available to communicate with the spirit world on your behalf? (And how come psychics never contact living people with messages from the dead? Has a Psychic Hotline operator ever called you to say "Sorry to trouble you, but your great-great-great-grandmother would like a quick chat"?) How many different deities have been worshipped in the last two hundred thousand years? How many have been lost, never again to hear a prayer or to receive a sacrifice of flowers or blood?

For as long as people have had questions, there have been Holy men and women ready to provide answers. Priests, priestesses, druids, shamen, witches, witch-doctors, vicars, monks, mediums, spiritualists, nuns and a thousand others - all claiming to have some mysterious link to the Unseen World, all claiming to know the Unknowable Truth.

Since the beginnings of human thought, the supernatural has been given as an explanation of the natural. Before the development of microbiology and space telescopes, all these mystical notions seemed to be perfectly reasonable. People prayed for rain, and eventually it rained. People made sacrifices, and they survived another year. Appease the Gods and the earthquakes will stop. Do as the priest says, and the Sun will appear again from behind the moon. Believe strongly enough, and the child will recover.

As long as there are intelligent beings who remain ignorant of the workings of the world, or are not satisfied with those workings and wish for something more, there will be theism. Gods by the truckload will be created, worshipped and then forgotten - assigned to the waste-bin of mythology. All current religions will die out or evolve, to be replaced by new ones, and the followers of those will look back and laugh that we could have been so primitive in our worship of Jesus or Allah, while they bend their knees to the latest supernatural invention.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Some of the theists here seem to be claiming that because we cannot prove god as false, it must exist...

Can you prove, beyond all doubt, that you are a real living person, just as you perceive yourself to be, and not a disembodied brain in a mad scientist's laboratory being fed complex stimuli?

You cannot. Is that a good reason to believe that you are just a brain in a jar?

I would say not. However, to take the thinking of some of you... It cannot be proved false, so it must be true.

I claim that there is a tiny green elephant hovering behind your head right now. You cannot see it or touch it, but it's there. Can you prove me wrong? Does that mean I'm right?

I claim that I am God, and I created the universe ten seconds ago, with all your memories in place. Can you prove me wrong? Does that mean I'm right?

In science, there is no such thing as absolute proof. There are theories and hypotheses, and evidence to support or refute them. Nothing can be proved absolutely - you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[Comrade nathan]

This debate is really poor. Its meant ot a philosophical debate. Only one person came in here and took grounds on something that was a little stable.

 

[thejosiekiller]

belief in things beyond human logic art groundless claims

u have to accept its my belief that i dont believe science or logic can attempt to reason the purpose of life and whether "god exists"- these are not groundless claims- its faith, if you cannot seperate the two i suggest u dont dismiss other ppl's ideas because u cant understand something that has nothing to do with our abilities as human beings

u can go on 2 + 2 = 4 being a smartarse but its redundant- the fact is with logic u know u have life- what is the purpose of this life is the question. stick to the issue

 

[Not-That-Bright]

belief in things beyond human logic art groundless claims

u have to accept its my belief that i dont believe science or logic can attempt to reason the purpose of life and whether "god exists"- these are not groundless claims- its faith, if you cannot seperate the two i suggest u dont dismiss other ppl's ideas because u cant understand something that has nothing to do with our abilities as human beings

u can go on 2 + 2 = 4 being a smartarse but its redundant- the fact is with logic u know u have life- what is the purpose of this life is the question. stick to the issue

So you have no problem with me claiming that there is a tiny green elephant hovering behind your head right now. You cannot see it or touch it, but it's there.

I guess you can't, maybe i'm right.

By your judgements i have as much right to proclaim myself as god, and that you simply cannot understand my true powers.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

belief in things beyond human logic art groundless claims

u have to accept its my belief that i dont believe science or logic can attempt to reason the purpose of life and whether "god exists"- these are not groundless claims- its faith, if you cannot seperate the two i suggest u dont dismiss other ppl's ideas because u cant understand something that has nothing to do with our abilities as human beings

u can go on 2 + 2 = 4 being a smartarse but its redundant- the fact is with logic u know u have life- what is the purpose of this life is the question. stick to the issue

1. What is the title of this thread? I believe it is "Does God exist," not "what is the purpose of life."

2. If you do not believe reason and logic can prove that God exists, then I am satisfied. Reason and logic is how we show things on Earth, didn't you know that? I'd be interested to know, if we aren't going to use reason, just what DOES show that God exists.

3. By definition faith is a groundless claim - it is belief without evidence.

4. "Belief in things beyond human logic art groundless claims" - so does that mean that my belief that I was abducted by a flying-sea turtle is infallible?

 

[jm1234567890]

belief in things beyond human logic art groundless claims

u have to accept its my belief that i dont believe science or logic can attempt to reason the purpose of life and whether "god exists"- these are not groundless claims- its faith, if you cannot seperate the two i suggest u dont dismiss other ppl's ideas because u cant understand something that has nothing to do with our abilities as human beings

u can go on 2 + 2 = 4 being a smartarse but its redundant- the fact is with logic u know u have life- what is the purpose of this life is the question. stick to the issue

I agree you can have faith in the existance of god, you may believe that god exists.

However, that be no means proves his existance to everyone.

Science itself is based on serveral axioms and postualates that cannot be proved, However,
most people believe them to be true. Thus, science is widely accepted.

Religion, is similarly based on beliefs and faiths, which member of the religion hold. However, that doesn't prove those particular beliefs.

 

[thejosiekiller]

i believe i dont care

if u see elephants everywhere good for u- im more interested in my life and how ot live while all of u r being morons- i cant be bothered with some1 as stupid as u lot- believe what u want is important

ur so called perspective cant influence me

 

[Not-That-Bright]

We Accept your faith.. what we don't understand is why you accept things so blindly... Your only basis for believing in a god is the same as my basis for believing I am God...
Can't u see the fundamental problem there?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

i believe i dont care

if u see elephants everywhere good for u- im more interested in my life and how ot live while all of u r being morons- i cant be bothered with some1 as stupid as u lot- believe what u want is important

ur so called perspective cant influence me

Translation:

I concede that I cannot show why God exists, so I'll call you names.

 

[thejosiekiller]

I agree you can have faith in the existance of god, you may believe that god exists.

However, that be no means proves his existance to everyone.

this is my belief which im sharing with people and for some reason every 1 is attmpting to anaylse my faith with their logic which is stupid

just like they see my faith against their logic as stupid