Im am not saying what is being said is wrong, the manner in which it is being said is offensive to people...saying that heaven is bullshit and poking fun of the catholic mass is offensive to people. Although i disagree with athiest beliefs i am not going around saying that they are bullshit and i cant believe how intelligent people can believe such crap.
Does God Exist? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter MoonlightSonata
- Start date
It's a difficult issue... Do you respect the person, their argument or their beliefs, or can you even make such a separation? Given that it is a question of personal beliefs it should be blindingly obvious that questioning another's point of view will be disrepectful to a certain extent (I know that there are different degrees of disrespect, though).
K
katie_tully
Guest
The thing that got me pissed off when I went to Catholic mass, was the fact that it resembled a cult more than a religion. The pamphlets they handed out told us those who do not accept god will and I quote "burn", whilst all good catholics should pray for them.
I got told I couldn't use the holy water when I walked in because I'M NOT CATHOLIC.
See my signature for possibly the most redundant thing I have ever heard.
I dont need or want any of you to pray for my soul. Thank you all the same. Here's an idea, keep your religion to yourself and don't condemn those who don't believe in it, to hell.
And yes. It's bullshit. If you understood the meaning of logic, you'd probably grasp why it is bullshit. You tell us who do not believe in it, not to regard your religion with disrespect, yet automatically we're told because we do not accept god, we're going to hell.
Funny thing is, if you don't believe in god, chances are you don't believe in hell... So really, theyre idle threats. I know when my body succumbs to rigor mortis, I'm not going to a rave in the sky. Chances are I'm going to be cut up for organ transplants, and then I'll turn into compost in the ground.
The other thing I can't stand is teachers who are religious, and impose their religion at school, even though it is a public school.
Our principal is a staunch catholic, who believes we should all attend scripture, so she tried to make it compulsary.
I got kicked out because I told the father he was full of shit. he tried to tell us God created the grand canyon in 3 days during the great flood, and that it is not a result of erosion and sedimentation. He then told us science proves nothing, but continued to use a basic science experiment to show HOW the grand canyon was created.
Our school song also includes god, yet a majority of those here are not religious. Those who are, have gone to religious boarding schools. Our school song ends with "By gods shining light".
Is there any need for that there?
I got told I couldn't use the holy water when I walked in because I'M NOT CATHOLIC.
See my signature for possibly the most redundant thing I have ever heard.
I dont need or want any of you to pray for my soul. Thank you all the same. Here's an idea, keep your religion to yourself and don't condemn those who don't believe in it, to hell.
And yes. It's bullshit. If you understood the meaning of logic, you'd probably grasp why it is bullshit. You tell us who do not believe in it, not to regard your religion with disrespect, yet automatically we're told because we do not accept god, we're going to hell.
Funny thing is, if you don't believe in god, chances are you don't believe in hell... So really, theyre idle threats. I know when my body succumbs to rigor mortis, I'm not going to a rave in the sky. Chances are I'm going to be cut up for organ transplants, and then I'll turn into compost in the ground.
The other thing I can't stand is teachers who are religious, and impose their religion at school, even though it is a public school.
Our principal is a staunch catholic, who believes we should all attend scripture, so she tried to make it compulsary.
I got kicked out because I told the father he was full of shit. he tried to tell us God created the grand canyon in 3 days during the great flood, and that it is not a result of erosion and sedimentation. He then told us science proves nothing, but continued to use a basic science experiment to show HOW the grand canyon was created.
Our school song also includes god, yet a majority of those here are not religious. Those who are, have gone to religious boarding schools. Our school song ends with "By gods shining light".
Is there any need for that there?
What you have just expressed is an extreme generalisation, just because you experienced it like that doesnt mean thats how it happens in all churches and schools. That may have been an unpleasant experience for you but you cant base your feelings on it. I have attended a number of different churches in Sydney, not only catholic but orthodox and protestant also. All the masses i have attended are complete opposites to what you described, holy water can be used by any person. Non catholics are invited during the eucharist to receive a blessing if they wish. I have never seen anyone say your are going to hell if you dont believe in God, in fact true hell is not believed to be the stereotypical place of fire. To christians, hell is a place where you are separated from God, so if you do not believe in God to begin with how can you be separated from him? The true mortal sin according to Christians is when you believe God exists but reject him
Actually katie, id be very careful with mixing your points with logic, and what is 'right'
You fall much into the very same concept as those Catholics, by telling us, 'by logic' that something is wrong therefore x is right. Remember our senses and even logic can be faulted and disproven, else we would have reached a state of human logic which would be near or perfect.
I do disagree with the style of 'we are the only ones to be saved...the pagans and heretics can burn in hell' but i think that this is a remnant of the conservative past.
I for one encourage the acceptance of all notions of such arguments, buddhist, islamic, atheist, agnostic, i have friends of all accounts, and i enjoy finding out more about their beliefs, and learn to question my very own faith and beliefs accordingly.
I dont think its a bad thing to not have a religion, and follow what you think is best, and i dont think that by not believing in god or something similar that you are necessarily a 'bad' nor 'evil' person, on the contrary you could be a much better example than those who are within their faith.
As a catholic, self-reflection is one aspect which i keep within my mind, to never follow blindly into something, i do debate a lot of things, especially with my strong philosophical and historical learning, i think its finding the individual message within life in general, not just from a book, but rather from living a life.
I hope that by that one experience you dont classify all christians or catholics as witch-burning idiots, as you can see there are quite a few of us with open minds, who wont try and convert you, but do appreciate the same courtesy towards our beliefs as well as the one accorded to you.
You fall much into the very same concept as those Catholics, by telling us, 'by logic' that something is wrong therefore x is right. Remember our senses and even logic can be faulted and disproven, else we would have reached a state of human logic which would be near or perfect.
I do disagree with the style of 'we are the only ones to be saved...the pagans and heretics can burn in hell' but i think that this is a remnant of the conservative past.
I for one encourage the acceptance of all notions of such arguments, buddhist, islamic, atheist, agnostic, i have friends of all accounts, and i enjoy finding out more about their beliefs, and learn to question my very own faith and beliefs accordingly.
I dont think its a bad thing to not have a religion, and follow what you think is best, and i dont think that by not believing in god or something similar that you are necessarily a 'bad' nor 'evil' person, on the contrary you could be a much better example than those who are within their faith.
As a catholic, self-reflection is one aspect which i keep within my mind, to never follow blindly into something, i do debate a lot of things, especially with my strong philosophical and historical learning, i think its finding the individual message within life in general, not just from a book, but rather from living a life.
I hope that by that one experience you dont classify all christians or catholics as witch-burning idiots, as you can see there are quite a few of us with open minds, who wont try and convert you, but do appreciate the same courtesy towards our beliefs as well as the one accorded to you.
K
katie_tully
Guest
My argument is only directed at those who see no other options and are intent on imposing their views on everybody else.
katie_tully said:
Well you are not really doing that by saying its bullshit and doesnt follow logic. To me thats an attack on everyone, not just those that are imposing their views on everybody else
Not-That-Bright
Andrew Quah
That is fundamental to your religion, you're obviously not a fundamentalist. I hate your notion of religion where you simply pick what you want to believe, the parts you don't want to believe from all different religions to come to whatever conclusions you want. Instead of picking the parts which you like the sound of & want to believe, why not pick it apart and chose the parts that are logically reasonable?
Christianity DOESN'T follow logic wether you would like it to or not, the TRUTH is not subjective and i feel we have a right to say it doesn't follow logic and seems wrong.
There is no reason for a god to become a man then kill himself to save us from himself which he knew he was already going to do, it doesn't make logical sense.
Yes self-reflection, and searching for the answers is important, however you will see that catholicism is not built upon finding the truth, it is built upon deception and lies. Ministers 'remove the demons' from people and tell the people in the crowd that jesus told him that man had demons and the large crowd simply sits there nodding their heads.
Not-That-Bright
Andrew Quah
yes but you can come to the logical conclusion that it is because you see ministers saying things that you can ascertain are lies and people sitting there nodding their heads.
If you want to tell me that they really have talked to jesus and that there really was a demon in the man then you're not applying any type of critical thinking to the situation.
If you want to tell me that they really have talked to jesus and that there really was a demon in the man then you're not applying any type of critical thinking to the situation.
Came across this interesting article...
'God gene' discovered by scientist behind gay DNA theory
By Elizabeth Day
(Filed: 14/11/2004)
Religious belief is determined by a person's genetic make-up according to a study by a leading scientist.
After comparing more than 2,000 DNA samples, an American molecular geneticist has concluded that a person's capacity to believe in God is linked to brain chemicals.
His findings were criticised last night by leading clerics, who challenge the existence of a "god gene" and say that the research undermines a fundamental tenet of faith - that spiritual enlightenment is achieved through divine transformation rather than the brain's electrical impulses.
Dr Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the National Cancer Institute in America, asked volunteers 226 questions in order to determine how spiritually connected they felt to the universe. The higher their score, the greater a person's ability to believe in a greater spiritual force and, Dr Hamer found, the more likely they were to share the gene, VMAT2.
Studies on twins showed that those with this gene, a vesicular monoamine transporter that regulates the flow of mood-altering chemicals in the brain, were more likely to develop a spiritual belief.
Growing up in a religious environment was said to have little effect on belief. Dr Hamer, who in 1993 claimed to have identified a DNA sequence linked to male homosexuality, said the existence of the "god gene" explained why some people had more aptitude for spirituality than others.
"Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus all shared a series of mystical experiences or alterations in consciousness and thus probably carried the gene," he said. "This means that the tendency to be spiritual is part of genetic make-up. This is not a thing that is strictly handed down from parents to children. It could skip a generation - it's like intelligence."
His findings, published in a book, The God Gene: How Faith Is Hard-Wired Into Our Genes, were greeted sceptically by many in the religious establishment.
The Rev Dr John Polkinghorne, a fellow of the Royal Society and a Canon Theologian at Liverpool Cathedral, said: "The idea of a god gene goes against all my personal theological convictions. You can't cut faith down to the lowest common denominator of genetic survival. It shows the poverty of reductionist thinking."
The Rev Dr Walter Houston, the chaplain of Mansfield College, Oxford, and a fellow in theology, said: "Religious belief is not just related to a person's constitution; it's related to society, tradition, character - everything's involved. Having a gene that could do all that seems pretty unlikely to me."
Dr Hamer insisted, however, that his research was not antithetical to a belief in God. He pointed out: "Religious believers can point to the existence of god genes as one more sign of the creator's ingenuity - a clever way to help humans acknowledge and embrace a divine presence."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...14.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/11/14/ixnewstop.html
'God gene' discovered by scientist behind gay DNA theory
By Elizabeth Day
(Filed: 14/11/2004)
Religious belief is determined by a person's genetic make-up according to a study by a leading scientist.
After comparing more than 2,000 DNA samples, an American molecular geneticist has concluded that a person's capacity to believe in God is linked to brain chemicals.
His findings were criticised last night by leading clerics, who challenge the existence of a "god gene" and say that the research undermines a fundamental tenet of faith - that spiritual enlightenment is achieved through divine transformation rather than the brain's electrical impulses.
Dr Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the National Cancer Institute in America, asked volunteers 226 questions in order to determine how spiritually connected they felt to the universe. The higher their score, the greater a person's ability to believe in a greater spiritual force and, Dr Hamer found, the more likely they were to share the gene, VMAT2.
Studies on twins showed that those with this gene, a vesicular monoamine transporter that regulates the flow of mood-altering chemicals in the brain, were more likely to develop a spiritual belief.
Growing up in a religious environment was said to have little effect on belief. Dr Hamer, who in 1993 claimed to have identified a DNA sequence linked to male homosexuality, said the existence of the "god gene" explained why some people had more aptitude for spirituality than others.
"Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus all shared a series of mystical experiences or alterations in consciousness and thus probably carried the gene," he said. "This means that the tendency to be spiritual is part of genetic make-up. This is not a thing that is strictly handed down from parents to children. It could skip a generation - it's like intelligence."
His findings, published in a book, The God Gene: How Faith Is Hard-Wired Into Our Genes, were greeted sceptically by many in the religious establishment.
The Rev Dr John Polkinghorne, a fellow of the Royal Society and a Canon Theologian at Liverpool Cathedral, said: "The idea of a god gene goes against all my personal theological convictions. You can't cut faith down to the lowest common denominator of genetic survival. It shows the poverty of reductionist thinking."
The Rev Dr Walter Houston, the chaplain of Mansfield College, Oxford, and a fellow in theology, said: "Religious belief is not just related to a person's constitution; it's related to society, tradition, character - everything's involved. Having a gene that could do all that seems pretty unlikely to me."
Dr Hamer insisted, however, that his research was not antithetical to a belief in God. He pointed out: "Religious believers can point to the existence of god genes as one more sign of the creator's ingenuity - a clever way to help humans acknowledge and embrace a divine presence."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...14.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/11/14/ixnewstop.html