Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[TheBirdMustFly]

Huh?
There's no way to say that one god belief is real and that their god belief is fake.

who are you talking to?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Post from a website... basically shows the most common claims as to why people think god exists and disproves them with some fairly good logic...

"Look around you! How can you witness the beauty of God-X's Creation and still disbelieve. Look at the trees, the birds, the bunnies!"
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* Many other religions make exactly the same claim. Why is your one special? Surely the trees, bunnies etc. are therefore equally valid proof of the existence of hundreds of other gods? One supernatural explanation is just as valid as any other.
* Unfortunately, everything you describe can also be explained in mundane, rational, scientific terms, without the need to invoke a Creator.
* What about the nasty things in life? Guinea worms, anthrax, mosquitoes; all the blood-sucking, parasitical, disease-bearing, poisonous beasties that kill us and each other in horrific ways? Watched any nature programmes recently?

"Six hundred million people follow my religion. They can't all be wrong - there must be something in it."
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* Nine hundred million people follow religion Z. Are they all wrong? Truth is not democratic - you can't vote for objective reality.
* Maybe they are right. Maybe their god exists as well as your god?
* If they're wrong, couldn't you also be wrong? After all, they seem to believe at least as strongly and sincerely as you do, and for many of the same reasons...

"I have personally witnessed a miracle. I can trust my senses."
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* Lots of people have personally witnessed Elvis working at the Drive-Thru. Should I believe them also? Without any sort of evidence, personal subjective testimony is not very convincing.
* Many people from other religions claim to have witnessed miracles. Does this mean that their God also exists? Just how many Gods are there?
* Are you positive that Divine Intervention is the only possible explanation for what you saw?

"My God is a living God. All those other ones are just ancient myths."
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* Those gods were "living Gods" to the people who believed in them. Zeuss, Odin and Jupiter once had followers every bit as devout as you.
* Many of the "ancient" religions still have active, devout, sincere followers. Just like you. Why should I accept your claims over theirs identical ones?
* How many people claim to worship dead gods?

"We are God's Chosen People."
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* So why doesn't he look after you a bit better? How many of his followers have suffered or died recently? Statistically, are you any better off than followers of other religions?
* Again, the same claim is made by other religions. How do I know they aren't the Chosen Ones?
* So what are the rest of us here for? What about the ones living in remote villages who will live their entire lives without even hearing of your god?

"If the probability of something happening is less than about 1e-15 (or 0.000000000000001) it is considered to be impossible. The probability of life occuring 'by accident' is far less than this, therefore it must be a miracle caused by God.."

What's wrong with this? Several things:

* It ignores the size of the universe. There are hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars, any of which might have planets capable of supporting life. Even an "impossibly improbable" event is almost a certainty (and we already know of one planet that supports life).

 

[olay]

Religion does more wrong than it does good i'm sorry.

i have always held that sentiment. til just then.

maybe the number of people who have been helped/become a better person in the belief in god [any god] equates to the number of people who have suffered in bloodshed over religion.

having said that, it's still probably one of the biggest reasons as to why i hold no specific religion.

 

[soha]

isnt our existance proof enough...?
think about the brain...how it functions...
who created that?
think about the heart..how it beats..
who created that?
think about the lungs how they operate..
how you breathe instinctively
how you wake up everymorining alive..you have been given life..by whom?..
by GoD...!
the three central religons of the world..christianity..islam and judiasm
they all have a belief in GoD and the oneness of GoD
and if you want to "FiNd GOd"... then you can..read the koran ..the bible and whatever else...
its not a topic that you can lash out at in a forum..its deeper then that
and if you are sincere in finding GoD.. or proof that GoD exists then ask GoD..
and you cant try with the intention to knock it back..you have to have an open mind and an open heart...but then again i dont know what your intentions are..and now im just crapping on...


and for those people with no religon..how do you sleep at night..
how do you live without knowing or understanding the purpose of life..
what about when you die..where are you going and why are you here
the pleasure seekers who think its about partying..dont you think life is deeper then that..and where are you heading?..to the grave..and from there on?..dont you want to knowwhy your here?..wont it give you a reason to live..i dunno it just strikes me as weird that people can live in this world without reason...

 

[jm1234567890]

no, they function because they follow the rules of science.

since no one can prove/disprove the existance of god, this argument is going nowhere.

why can't people accept that god's existance isn't as important as the faith in god

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Saying that because there is no other explanation it must be god is just silly...

and you cant try with the intention to knock it back..you have to have an open mind and an open heart

I've heard this before... so basically what you're telling me is the only way to have faith is to have faith to begin with?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Faith in god is also bad...

Religion represents a huge financial and work burden on mankind. It's not just a matter of religious believers wasting their money on church buildings; think of all the time and effort spent building churches, praying, and so on. Imagine how that effort could be better spent.

Many theists believe in miracle healing. There have been plenty of instances of ill people being "healed" by a priest, ceasing to take the medicines prescribed to them by doctors, and dying as a result. Some theists have died because they have refused blood transfusions on religious grounds.

It is arguable that the Catholic Church's opposition to birth control -- and condoms in particular -- is increasing the problem of overpopulation in many third-world countries and contributing to the spread of AIDS world-wide.

Religious believers have been known to murder their children rather than allow their children to become atheists or marry someone of a different religion. Religious leaders have been known to justify murder on the grounds of blasphemy.

There have been many religious wars. Even if we accept the argument that religion was not the true cause of those wars, it was still used as an effective justification for them.

 

[jm1234567890]

Faith in god is also bad...

well, that is the same thing as saying murdering is bad. People have their own wills and can do what every they want.

 

[lengstar]

i'm doing Human Biology at The University of Sydney and right now i'm studying the development of a gamete to a foetus to a neonate ( new born child ). I think i can safely say that their explanations on the miracle of birth are quite rational, reasonable, evidence-based and logical. I still think that birth is a miracle, i just don't believe God has anything to do with it.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea, i agree.
I don't think it's right to blame the good or bad things that people do on religion.... (people that murder would probably still commit murder, people that spread charity would probably still do that) However the justification for things would change... I don't think it's right that murders should be allowed to justify it based on religion.

 

[TheBirdMustFly]

sorry I just don't believe in something because it sounds good, it has to be logical, sure I would like to believe when we die, we all go to heaven and live happily ever after. But I just can't grasp that.

why can't people accept that god's existance isn't as important as the faith in god

isn't accepting god's existence and faith the same thing. some ppl believe in god because they are scared of anything else. I used to be the same.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

isnt our existance proof enough...?
think about the brain...how it functions...
who created that?
think about the heart..how it beats..
who created that?
think about the lungs how they operate..
how you breathe instinctively
how you wake up everymorining alive..you have been given life..by whom?..

Appeal to ignorance... we don't know... so it must be God!

and for those people with no religon..how do you sleep at night..
how do you live without knowing or understanding the purpose of life..

Why do people need to have their life's meaning and purpose given to them on a silver platter... they seem so afraid of not having meaning when we can create our own meaning. What is wrong with defining our own lives? Do we really need a magical superbeing to tell us who we are?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

and for those people with no religon..how do you sleep at night..
how do you live without knowing or understanding the purpose of life.

I'll use the old snowman anology...

I am often asked "Why bother? If life is a meaningless accident, with no ultimate goal or purpose, why not just kill yourself now? Why not even go on a killing spree and end the worthless lives of everybody else? What stops you ending it all?" To which I would reply - "Have you ever built a snowman?" After all, snowmen are ephemeral objects, soon to be melted in the sun. A snowman has no ultimate purpose or goal, and in a few weeks there will be no trace of it's ever existing. We build snowmen because all of us, theists and atheists, live here and now. In the context of our own brief mortal lives, we are able to enjoy this life and gain pleasure from ultimately pointless acts. It is fun to build a snowman, or climb a mountain, or watch the sunset, or go for a long cycle ride in the countryside. The purpose of these things is not "out there" somewhere, waiting to be achieved - the meaning is in what it means to ourselves. I am not overly concerned about some future fifty billion years from now, but I am concerned about the future of humanity here, now and for the generations that follow. That is the context of a mortal life, and that is why I "bother" to live and damn well have fun while I'm doing it.

There is no meaning to life itself. There is no purpose to the universe. You can, however, give life meaning through your actions. Make the world a better place for yourself, your contemporaries and your descendents.

 

[TheBirdMustFly]

Why do people need to have their life's meaning and purpose given to them on a silver platter... they seem so afraid of not having meaning when we can create our own meaning. What is wrong with defining our own lives? Do we really need a magical superbeing to tell us who we are?

exactely right, lately I have decided I really want to spread the word of humanity, tolerance and peace, I didn't need a god to tell me that, because it's in the human spirit.

 

[lengstar]

I find that the more movies and books i read, a better understanding of the world i grasp. There really should be a thread about experiences, inspirations, influences and events in your life that helped define it, manipulate it and how it has made you the person you are today cause no life is ever the same and thats what makes it unique.

 

[syn]

i have always held that sentiment. til just then.

maybe the number of people who have been helped/become a better person in the belief in god [any god] equates to the number of people who have suffered in bloodshed over religion.

having said that, it's still probably one of the biggest reasons as to why i hold no specific religion.

religion itself is a good thing. it gives one strength and hope, and not everyone can deal with problems the same way as you would.

HOWEVER, organised religion is evil; a primitive form of mind control that more and more people are falling for daily. my belief is that it is the cause of most problems/bloodshed worldwide. therefore it can be seen that it is not religion that is evil, but man's interpretation of it that is. basically, we've ruined everything.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No... people believing in their own random made up diety is as bad as a person believing in the god of an organised religion..

 

[TheBirdMustFly]

I find that the more movies and books i read, a better understanding of the world i grasp. There really should be a thread about experiences, inspirations, influences and events in your life that helped define it, manipulate it and how it has made you the person you are today cause no life is ever the same and thats what makes it unique.

yes, and people you meet and talk to you shapes how you think. That is why I am going to villawood detention centre with ChilOut I think to see those children locked up in a cage... well I wont go on because some ppl here don't agree, they think those children are dangerous

Anyway, my cousin went to the concentration camps in Germany and she said it was an overwhelming experience.

 

[lengstar]

I've just realised how much power a priest can weld. The don't own a profit making company per se, but they are in charge of influencing the minds of many people. I mean, if they can justify something that may be slightly wrong but relate it back to their God, they can do just about anything. Fortunately people aren't as easily swayed by religion as before.

 

[syn]

and for those people with no religon..how do you sleep at night..
how do you live without knowing or understanding the purpose of life..
what about when you die..where are you going and why are you here
the pleasure seekers who think its about partying..dont you think life is deeper then that..and where are you heading?..to the grave..and from there on?..dont you want to knowwhy your here?..wont it give you a reason to live..i dunno it just strikes me as weird that people can live in this world without reason...

the meaning of life: we exist to accessorise