does love exist. (2 Viewers)

[melanieeeee.]

lol wtf are you even on about? Of course I want to know the truth, my epistemology is that we cannot know "the truth" but instead can (from observation etc) form strong provisional truths. The strongest provisional truth we have is that there is no mystical quality to love.

thats exactly what i said. romantic love does not exist where romantic love is defined as a deep and meaningful connection.

 

[Enteebee]

thats exactly what i said. romantic love does not exist where romantic love is defined as a deep and meaningful connection.

But... there can be a 'deep and meaningful connection'. I believe that I love people and have 'deep and meaningful connections' with them, I also realise that this is a part of social/psychological/genetic constructions but I am nothing without these so it matters little to my subjective experience of such feelings. So there's a bit of a definitional problem... love exists, it's just nothing mystical. There are 'deep and meaningful connections', as deep and meaningful as anything any human being has ever known - but in an ultimate sense, pointless.

So you're wrong when you say there's nothing deep and meaningful to romantic love, because there is - Unless by deep and meaningful you're requiring some mystical, external force to be at work, in which case you'd be right

 

[Pacchiru]

i have found true love in a certain someone.

 

[melanieeeee.]

But... there can be a 'deep and meaningful connection'. I believe that I love people and have 'deep and meaningful connections' with them, I also realise that this is a part of social/psychological/genetic constructions but I am nothing without these so it matters little to my subjective experience of such feelings. So there's a bit of a definitional problem... love exists, it's just nothing mystical. There are 'deep and meaningful connections', as deep and meaningful as anything any human being has ever known - but in an ultimate sense, pointless.So you're wrong when you say there's nothing deep and meaningful to romantic love, because there is - Unless by deep and meaningful you're requiring some mystical, external force to be at work, in which case you'd be right

i am aware that love exists as an emotion but as something more...
deep and meaningful connections imo cant be seen as anything other than mystical because you cant really tell that it is there.
also: there doesnt necessarily have to be an external force at work for it to be a mystical connection between the individuals.

 

[Pacchiru]

Is it Klaymen?

wot.. no.

 

[HalcyonSky]

i have found true love in a certain someone.

same

 

[Enteebee]

i am aware that love exists as an emotion but as something more...
deep and meaningful connections imo cant be seen as anything other than mystical because you cant really tell that it is there.
also: there doesnt necessarily have to be an external force at work for it to be a mystical connection between the individuals.

...because you can't really tell that it is there? What are you on about? Do you simply ignore our explanations of what 'love' is? There is nothing mystical about it and all you seem to be doing is saying "Nah, I feel it has to be mystical" without any proof what-so-ever... So why should anyone bother engaging with you?

You don't want to 'discover the truth' you want to proclaim it based on your feelings.

 

[melanieeeee.]

no matter how you choose to define love (eg. "love is deep and meaningful connections") its an universally accounted for state. whatever one chooses to define the sensation as, countless studies show that its the result of physical (tangible) chemicals in our brain, ie. nothing magical.

almost seems this thread is trying to form some sort of fail counter-argument to atheist and agnostic views presented in the "does god exist" thread. so far your argument consists of: "imo cant be seen as anything other than mystical because you cant really see that it is there", which is a complete joke as countless research has been done on the physical processes (down to specific chemicals) behind the phenomenon. each of these are from peer-reviewed journals - sorry i got lazy with referencing:

but you are assuming that there is a link between chemical brain and deep and meaningful connection (assuming that this deep and meaningful connection exists).

i dont see how you can distinguish love as 'magical' / 'mystical' from any other form of emotional state (eg. sadness?).

hmmmm i can distinguish it because i am talking about love as a connection not as an emotion. but okay if you want to consider emotions as a mystical thing then thats fine with me.

...because you can't really tell that it is there? What are you on about? Do you simply ignore our explanations of what 'love' is? There is nothing mystical about it and all you seem to be doing is saying "Nah, I feel it has to be mystical" without any proof what-so-ever... So why should anyone bother engaging with you?

i mean that you cannot physically see the connection. it isnt tangible.

 

[HalcyonSky]

excuse meranie, she has a learning disability

 

[melanieeeee.]

excuse meranie, she has a learning disability

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[Enteebee]

i mean that you cannot physically see the connection. it isnt tangible.

The connection is a physiological/social construction... It's like claiming friends have no 'connection' if I don't accept some sort of mystical origin for it. What we mean by a 'connection' is merely a common state of being. If you believe that all such 'connections' must necessarily be explained in terms of mysticism then you're wrong because they don't. If you want to simply demand that they must be explained in terms of mysticism then you're not a 'seeker of truth', you believe you're a "knower of truth" and your explorations of reality are really just attempts to reinforce your preconceived notion.

 

[melanieeeee.]

The connection is a physiological/social construction... It's like claiming friends have no 'connection' if I don't accept some sort of mystical origin for it. What we mean by a 'connection' is merely a common state of being. If you believe that all such 'connections' must necessarily be explained in terms of mysticism then you're wrong because they don't. If you want to simply demand that they must be explained in terms of mysticism then you're not a 'seeker of truth', you believe you're a "knower of truth" and your explorations of reality are really just attempts to reinforce your preconceived notion.

yes but i didnt just use the word 'connection' i used the words 'deep and meaningful connection' implying that its more than just be a state of being.

 

[melanieeeee.]

exactly, youre begging the question. youre implying that love is magical by its very definition

there are a lot of theories on love. how do you know which one is right.

 

[Enteebee]

...If your definition necessarily implies that there must be some sort of mystical quality, then I do not believe that exists. If your definition implies the FEELING of some sort of incredibly deep, important, mystical and transcendental quality to the connection then I do believe this exists -- However, this can be explained physiologically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z4B5BYbjf8

This doesn't mean it isn't deep and meaningful, I am a human and I can't escape my constructed feelings, as a human it is as deep and meaningful to me as ANYTHING is and I am not a nihilist.

there are a lot of theories on love. how do you know which one is right.

The one which is the simplest given the objective scientific evidence we have available about such states.

 

[melanieeeee.]

like i said i already acknowledge love as an emotion.

 

[melanieeeee.]

ockhamz razor. if theres no evidence for it being 'magical' its a redundant postulate. in the same way i dont follow the belief that invisible demons are behind the movement of planets

ockhamz razor = simplest explanation =/= truth.
also im not talking about the explanation behind love im talking about the definition of love.

 

[Enteebee]

Did you watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z4B5BYbjf8

I think it provides a fairly good explanation for how we can come to feel even the most intense of mystical experiences.

 

[melanieeeee.]

okay i figured out the type of love that i am talking about. i am talking about platonic love.

 

[emmalinarina]

I'm not exactly sure if love exists, coz its different for everyone who experiences it. But I don't believe in soul mates, either that or I believe only about 5 people a year find them. I believe that we find someone that we like enough to be able to stand living with for the rest of our lives. Their could be hundreds of people out there that fit that criteria.

I'm not sure if that makes sense to everyone else. But I understood it

 

[a.Limjoco]

okay i figured out the type of love that i am talking about. i am talking about platonic love.

I think that makes it easier, platonic love. Yeah it exists, think about your parents (i'm hoping they don't want you)..