Double Undergraduate Degrees (1 Viewer)

[turtleface]

What are everyone's views on 2 undergraduate Degrees?

Waste of time? Advantage for employment? Too costly in terms of time and money? Useless? Makes you seem smarter?

I know that most people at the top echelon of business and academia are usually a single BCom, often with postgraduate degrees, but for something like Law, many many partners and GC have 2 undergraduate degrees.

Do you think it is an advantage or disadvantage for employment?

Any other thoughts?

 

[redruM]

I think it purely depends on what you want to achieve out of uni.

Personally, I wanted to get into a job where I can get into to do my CA. Which is why I dropped the Applied Finance and Accounting double to just the single degree.

So like I said, I think it depends on each situation.

 

[seremify007]

My sister said alot of her friends who did Comm/Law ended up dropping the Law component and just graduating with Commerce so that they could get out of uni and into a job sooner rather than later.

 

[jase_]

Depends how long the combined/double degree is and what kind of job you want at the end. My course is 4 years, which isn't too bad, since a single degree with honours is also 4 years usually. I spent 4.5 years because I transferred from IT. I think it gave me a bit of advantage with job applications and interviews because I could say I have business skills in my IT roles that I was applying for, which some companies, like banks and accounting firms look highly upon.

 

[phrred]

what about 3 or 4 majors?

 

[turtleface]

I think the double undergraduate degree concept is a bad idea. Melb Unis taking a good step by getting rid of it. The problem is that you are too restricted in terms of your Commerce subjects if you do BCom/LLB or BCom/BE. This leads to major dilution of the Commerce content and I think leads to a poor quality degree. At our uni, you can't even major in Accounting for combos like BCom/BE due to subject restrictions.

The idea of spending some time doing non Commerce subjects seems appealing and refreshing, but I think it is detrimental. It seems to me that the more in depth we go into a subject, the better holistic view we get of it. I'd love to do go to a Psych major where theres plenty of chicks but its just totally useless in the context of a Commerce degree.

As for employment, I thought firms didn't make a distinction btw. graduates of Single and Double undergraduate degrees. And they don't but I have seen some rare instances where there was starting pay differentials. For instance a partner of a leading mid tier firm said that they pay double degree grads $3000 higher.

That totally bites for single degree people, but I guess getting $3000 for 2 extra years of (unrelated) study, and a diluted Commerce degree doesn't really benefit double degree students either from a cost benefit point of view.

 

[§eraphim]

I think the double undergraduate degree concept is a bad idea. Melb Unis taking a good step by getting rid of it. The problem is that you are too restricted in terms of your Commerce subjects if you do BCom/LLB or BCom/BE. This leads to major dilution of the Commerce content and I think leads to a poor quality degree. At our uni, you can't even major in Accounting for combos like BCom/BE due to subject restrictions.

The idea of spending some time doing non Commerce subjects seems appealing and refreshing, but I think it is detrimental. It seems to me that the more in depth we go into a subject, the better holistic view we get of it. I'd love to do go to a Psych major where theres plenty of chicks but its just totally useless in the context of a Commerce degree.

As for employment, I thought firms didn't make a distinction btw. graduates of Single and Double undergraduate degrees. And they don't but I have seen some rare instances where there was starting pay differentials. For instance a partner of a leading mid tier firm said that they pay double degree grads $3000 higher.

That totally bites for single degree people, but I guess getting $3000 for 2 extra years of (unrelated) study, and a diluted Commerce degree doesn't really benefit double degree students either from a cost benefit point of view.

I disagree.

By doing a combined degree, it takes less time to get an extra degree. For example, I'm doing Comm/Sci and it takes just another yr on the standard 3 yrs for me to pick up another Sci degree.

Most employers don't really care what you have done in your degree, as long as you have the major and completed the right subjects to take up further professional studies, eg CA, FIAA.

There are natural areas of cross-over between the faculties which combined degrees take advantage of. eg Actuarial Studies/Finance/Economics and Maths/Stats/Comp sci. By choosing the right kind of subjects, these extra technical skills/knowledge can help you in your job or in honours. eg actuarial software development.

Large companies usually advertise that having a double degree/honours is an advantage as your breadth of knowledge and skills is much greater than a pass degree holders. Once you have a strong foundation in that area, you can easily pick up new skills and knowledge with further reading/training.

Commerce is a multi-disciplinary field drawing from many different areas. A few examples include:

- actuarial studies - maths, stats, computer science
- finance - psychology, eg behavioural finance

Combined degree holders benefit from these areas of cross-over.

 

[Anonymou5]

I just wanted to add that if don't want to pursue a career as an engineer then combining basically anything with engineering is a bad idea. Combined engineering courses (at melb. anyway) tend to focus primarily on the engineering component.

 

[Bobness]

I think the double undergraduate degree concept is a bad idea.

fair enough

I'd love to do go to a Psych major where theres plenty of chicks but its just totally useless in the context of a Commerce degree.

that's a pretty retarded reason to do a psych major. are you so insecure finding 'eligible' chicks in your comm program because iono they might end up making more money than you, are more ambitious or simply since there's a generally higher ratio of guys:girls so you sit back and lament the fox/grapes phenomena?

That totally bites for single degree people, but I guess getting $3000 for 2 extra years of (unrelated) study, and a diluted Commerce degree doesn't really benefit double degree students either from a cost benefit point of view.

also not everything is about money. you're just fulfilling the mis-aligned stereotypes we all have with comm students in your comments.

some people when they enter uni still aren't too sure of what they're career path may be so they choose a more 'general' degree such as comm/arts. just because they might never use one component of their double degree in the future does NOT give you the right to condescendingly judge them (at least in terms of the majority of your post). and of course some people value knowledge and the idea of contributing to society in more than one way possible more than $$

double single whatever degree one chooses its exactly that. their choice. and in terms of the future, if you're too influenced by that to the extent that you try to work out which degree will allow you to 'pick up more chicks' then i'm sorry you need to reconsider your priorities.

btw you sound asian.

 

[Bobness]

btw seraphim is correct

 

[turtleface]

Oh no I'm not trying to bag people on Double degrees. I am too, (well enrolled in 2 at least)

Do you think you'd learn more if you did a BCom/LLB where you do 2 years of Commerce essentially, or a BCom for 3 years, then a 2 year JD where there are 3 semesters so it only takes 2 years?

In my opinion, that way you get 2 "full" degrees rather than a diluted Commerce degree.

Its all very well to say "oh but you get more broad knowledge", but its a bit too broad. Think back to VCE/HSC. Was learning Physics for example really useful? Yes if we got into it a bit more in depth, but really all we got taught was some basic principles and processes, which, frankly are now utterly useless, as far as I can forsee.

If we do a Physics major and learn some basic rules, does that really complement our abilities or skills? Wouldn't it be better to do more subjects in Commerce, say even something abstract or obscure like Economic History. In my mind that would complement our knowledge and skills much better, and make us much much better, well rounded grads.

 

[turtleface]

I mean, all uni education is . Despite what some proponents of uni education claim, all it is designed to do is fill our minds with a holistic view of a field of study. We learn the basic principles and are taught to identify the key issues in play. All this is useless if we go into an area separate from our field of study. I will not "apply my knowledge of Chemistry" in Law.

The ability for double degree people to change careers is a bit of a misnomer too, given all the CA/CPA/CFA/registrations/post grad training style stuff we are now familiar with.

A bit unrelated but I always here people say "I can't wait to apply what I learnt at Uni in the real world". Thats a joke. We do [b/]not[/b] "apply our knowledge", we use our knowledge as the foundation for how we operate and make decisions.

 

[§eraphim]

Oh no I'm not trying to bag people on Double degrees. I am too, (well enrolled in 2 at least)

Do you think you'd learn more if you did a BCom/LLB where you do 2 years of Commerce essentially, or a BCom for 3 years, then a 2 year JD where there are 3 semesters so it only takes 2 years?

In my opinion, that way you get 2 "full" degrees rather than a diluted Commerce degree.

Its all very well to say "oh but you get more broad knowledge", but its a bit too broad. Think back to VCE/HSC. Was learning Physics for example really useful? Yes if we got into it a bit more in depth, but really all we got taught was some basic principles and processes, which, frankly are now utterly useless, as far as I can forsee.

If we do a Physics major and learn some basic rules, does that really complement our abilities or skills? Wouldn't it be better to do more subjects in Commerce, say even something abstract or obscure like Economic History. In my mind that would complement our knowledge and skills much better, and make us much much better, well rounded grads.

The breadth of knowledge depends on your choice of subjects. I know of many double degree students who specialise very early on by taking postgrad and honours level subjects, and they have that opportunity because they have spent a bit more time at uni, and have a lot more electives at their disposal. This flexibility is very much valued by students, and by employers.

You have nfi about the sciences so don't comment about physics. Physics provides you with the problem-solving, analytical and computer modelling skills that are demanded in many technical positions such as in the finance industry. If you combine this with a major with more writing and analysis, eg finance, law, etc, you are much more well-rounded as you can solve hard problems, and you know how to communicate your solution.

I think the idea behind the combined degree is either:

- combine 2 professional degrees to give graduates more flexibility in their choice of career paths. eg BCom (Accounting) / BE (Electrical). Also, Engineers need commerce knowledge and skills to progress to management roles.
- a more theoretical, general degree like Science and Arts, and a more applied, professional degree like Commerce. This allows general skills gained from the general degree to be applied in some commercial setting, eg actuarial software development.

 

[§eraphim]

I mean, all uni education is . Despite what some proponents of uni education claim, all it is designed to do is fill our minds with a holistic view of a field of study. We learn the basic principles and are taught to identify the key issues in play. All this is useless if we go into an area separate from our field of study. I will not "apply my knowledge of Chemistry" in Law.

The ability for double degree people to change careers is a bit of a misnomer too, given all the CA/CPA/CFA/registrations/post grad training style stuff we are now familiar with.

A bit unrelated but I always here people say "I can't wait to apply what I learnt at Uni in the real world". Thats a joke. We do [b/]not[/b] "apply our knowledge", we use our knowledge as the foundation for how we operate and make decisions.

A uni education is meant for you to gain the required foundation in knowledge to prepare you for further workplace learning, such as on-the-job learning and training, and other professional development courses, and to provide the right blend of skills to do your job properly. This background knowledge and skills can also be developed through research, eg Honours, masters

You are confusing the issue. The flexibility from a combined degree is during and straight after graduating from uni. All those acronyms you let fly are just ways to specialise in a field through professional education, but you would only do that after you have chosen your career. Doing a combined degree gives you the opportunity to delay your choice until some time during uni (after your HSC).

 

[turtleface]

Yes but how is a double undergraduate degree better than say one degree and a Masters in a different field. e.g. a LLB and then a Masters of Professional Accounting or a BCom and then a JD or LLM(Legal Practice)?

I think this issue is getting befuddled, and I'm partly to blame with my digressions so I've made an extra effort to read the posts more carefully.

The other point I've been trying to make is, does a double degree really give you wider scope of knowledge? Yes you are learning in a separate discipline (the relevance of one discipline to the other is irrelevant to what I'm saying), but there is a tradeoff. Because, as you say:

By doing a combined degree, it takes less time to get an extra degree. For example, I'm doing Comm/Sci and it takes just another yr on the standard 3 yrs for me to pick up another Sci degree.

obviously theres a cost of the decrease in time taken to complete the 2nd degree. The cost is credit points in both degrees. So you end up with a diluted degree.

The breadth of knowledge depends on your choice of subjects. I know of many double degree students who specialise very early on by taking postgrad and honours level subjects, and they have that opportunity because they have spent a bit more time at uni, and have a lot more electives at their disposal. This flexibility is very much valued by students, and by employers.

Yes thats all very well, but no matter what, if you do a 2nd undergraduate degree concurrently, you will sacrifice other commerce electives, or for subject heavy things like Accounting, core subjects and majors.

My question is do you think you end up with a broader knowledge and skill base after all, when you factor in the opportunity cost of the double undergraduate degree.

I don't know why you are being so adversarial about it, as I'm pretty much asking for opinions in addition to giving some of my thoughts.

- a more theoretical, general degree like Science and Arts, and a more applied, professional degree like Commerce. This allows general skills gained from the general degree to be applied in some commercial setting, eg actuarial software development.

Yes thats all very well, but in practice, I'm not sure that if you are hired as a Programmer, your company will also rely on your (very limited) Actuary knowledge for the technical components of the program. Most likely they will hire EXPERT Actuaries for the technical aspects of the code.

I just think there is an impression amongst many of us that a double undergraduate degree suddenly makes you an expert in 2 areas, and only those 2 ugrad degree grads are able to handle work that intersects the 2 areas. Its a bit of that "you need a LLB/MBBS to become a Coroner" mentality, which is of course false.

 

[blackfriday]

i took a double degree but from what im told by the working people i know, a masters/honours degree is probably better than a double degree. from what i read in the papers, full specialisation is the way of the future.

 

[§eraphim]

Double degrees are also nice coz you actually get to do something fun/interesting apart from bland commerce.

 

[overfloat]

just ask yourself... does it have better chicks?.... if so, do it....... marine biology anyone?

 

[blackfriday]

but for men like you and me, doing all that extra maths isnt exactly 'fun/interesting'. the gen ed stuff is there to 'broaden' your university education (albeit its 12 cp of complete crap in reality).

 

[HepAlien]

For those that do a double degree of Commerce/Science or something to that effect, how do you find it? Are the lecturers good? Alright? Bad? Do you think that you'll end up completing both degrees?

For my preferences, I'm most likely putting down B Sci/Comm for USYD, UNSW and UTS plus a few others in case I don't make it into any of them because right now I can't decide whether I want to do just Business or just Science. I'm not doing any 'business'-type subjects for the HSC, so will that hinder me at all if I manage to get into my first preference? Originally my intention was to solely do MedSci or Engineering, but I don't think I have the right type of thinking or personality required for something in that field in the long run, so any takers for advice?

Also, how different is a B Sc/Business, B MedSc/Business, B Biotech/Business [UTS] to a B Sc/Comm [USYD and UNSW], apart from the obvious MedSc and Biotech components?