Dutch unveil the toughest face in Europe with a ban on the burka (2 Viewers)

[supercharged]

THE Netherlands is likely to become the first country in Europe to ban the burka, under government proposals that would bring in some of the toughest curbs on Muslim clothing in the world.

The country’s hardline Integration Minister, Rita Verdonk, known as the Iron Lady for her series of tough anti-immigration measures, told Parliament that she was going to investigate where and when the burka should be banned. The burka, traditional clothing in some Islamic societies, covers a woman’s face and body, leaving only a strip of gauze for the eyes.

Mrs Verdonk gave warning that the “time of cosy tea-drinking” with Muslim groups had passed and that natives and immigrants should have the courage to be critical of each other. She recently cancelled a meeting with Muslim leaders who refused to shake her hand because she was a woman.


The proposals are likely to win the support of Parliament because of the expected backing by right-wing parties. But they have caused outrage among Muslim and human rights groups, who say that the Government is pandering to the far Right.

Mrs Verdonk admitted that a complete ban on the garment would be legally tricky because of freedom of religion legislation. However, she said that she would prohibit the garments “in specific situations” on grounds of public safety. The ban is likely to be enforced in shops, public buildings, cinemas, train and bus stations and airports, as well as on trains and buses.

The Netherlands has become preoccupied by Islamic terrorism after the investigation into the murder of the film-maker Theo van Gogh uncovered a network of Muslim extremists dedicated to destroying the country. Attention has turned to the burka because police authorities have become concerned that a terrorist could use one for concealment.

A government spokesman said: “We want to investigate when, how, in which places the burka should be banned. It is a safety measure — you don’t see who is in it.” The Government cites as a precedent existing football legislation, which bans people from entering football grounds covering their faces in scarves.

Yassim Hertog, a vice-president of the Muslim School Boards Union, said: “Can you prohibit someone from wearing a certain type of dress? They are trying to test what a government can forbid, and how far you can go trampling on people’s rights. They want to show all these Dutch citizens who are sick and tired of all these ‘mutant’ citizens, this is where we draw the line — get normal.”

Muslim groups insist that only a few dozen women in the Netherlands wear the burka, and that the ban is a distraction. The Muslims and Government Contact Body said: “Only a handful of Muslims actually wear burkas. Let us focus our energy on what we have in common. This is not a big problem.”

Last year two Muslim women lost a court case against their college that had banned them from wearing burkas during their social work and childcare course. The judge backed the college in its claim that children had to be able to see who was caring for them, prompting the women to drop the course.

Famile Arslan, the women’s lawyer, told The Times:

“Women have a very strong opinion about the burka. If you ban it they won’t leave the house. It is not a good way to integrate and emancipate Muslim women. Everything Muslims do is criticised by Verdonk. She is doing it to get votes. She doesn’t care about Muslims and their problems.”

Mrs Verdonk made the proposals after Geert Wilders, the right-wing MP, requested the ban. Mr Wilders claimed that the garment was unfriendly towards women and a threat to security.

Baroness Sarah Ludford MEP, on the European Parliament’s Civil Liberties Committee, who has been active in opposing bans on the hijab, or scarf, said that there were no arguments for banning the burka. “If there is a genuine belief that someone under a burka is a terrorist, then you invoke stop-and-search laws on the grounds of reasonable suspicion.”

The Netherlands would become the first European country to ban the wearing of the burka in public situations, although there are already some local bans. Last year several Belgian towns, including Antwerp and Ghent, banned the wearing of the burka in public, and recently started issuing £100 spot fines for breaking the municipal ordinance. Several towns in Italy, including Como, have invoked legislation introduced by Mussolini that bans hiding one’s face in public to impose fines on burka-wearers. France and several regions of Germany have followed Turkey and Tunisia in banning the wearing of the hijab, which leaves the face visible, in public buildings, most controversially in schools.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1823334,00.html

Yassim Hertog, a vice-president of the Muslim School Boards Union, said: “Can you prohibit someone from wearing a certain type of dress? Can you wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia?

 

[rhapsody11]

I might move there.

Where there're no burkas, there're no muslim ladies. Where there're no muslim ladies, there are no muslim men. Where there're no muslim men, crime rate doesn't increase so hugely. I'd like to think that my girlfriend can walk around safe at night without being gang raped and harrassed by over-testosteroned arabs.

I don't see any draw backs. If they love Islam so much, they should move to Saudi Arabia and go huddle around Mecca. Don't come here and bring all your nasty cultural ties with you.

 

[julius]

I think the general gist is that 'Islam sucks'.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I suppose now would be an appropriate time to reveal I am of Dutch descent

 

[syera]

I might move there.

Where there're no burkas, there're no muslim ladies. Where there're no muslim ladies, there are no muslim men. Where there're no muslim men, crime rate doesn't increase so hugely. I'd like to think that my girlfriend can walk around safe at night without being gang raped and harrassed by over-testosteroned arabs.

I don't see any draw backs. If they love Islam so much, they should move to Saudi Arabia and go huddle around Mecca. Don't come here and bring all your nasty cultural ties with you.

Well good, go move there and never come back.
And by the way, there are many Christian Arabs to, so they might be the ones who are gonna gang rape your lil girlfriend.

 

[julius]

Get over your fucking crusade to defend the 'good name' of islam.

 

[Comrade nathan]

I suppose now would be an appropriate time to reveal I am of Dutch descent

You muslim hating basterd.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Ah but I should also mention I am part Armenian

But seriously though, I don't have anything specifically against Muslims. As you know I really disapprove of religion in general.

 

[soha]

man im so over islam in the media
like i just can be bothered to read these articles..watch the news etc

such is life

 

[Sweets]

I can see how Europeans, feel this paradoxical tension between democracy and protecting themselves, because oddly it has been the democracy and freedom of movement which has allowed for this minority abberent of terrorism to take form.

But I don't see how legislating against the Burka is going to do anything other then maybe appease the public. What's next legislating thinking?

Are nuns still allowed to wear their little outfits?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

I think it is a great idea. There is know way of knowing who is walking around inside one of those things.

Accepting it is ridiculous. You can get on a plane with a burka on but if I started a religion where you had to wear a scream costume all the time no one would put up with it. If you want to choose that religion choose a different country to live in.

 

[Valeroso]

Well, it's just a piece of clothing! I don't see how it "harms" society in any way. It doesn't personally affect me, so why should I care what others wear? That being said, if there was a ban on the burka, you may as well ban the clothing which nun's wear and so on. I'm not a Muslim but I just see this legislation as pointless even if you do oppose religion.

 

[rhapsody11]

Well good, go move there and never come back.
And by the way, there are many Christian Arabs to, so they might be the ones who are gonna gang rape your lil girlfriend.

When did I say that Christian Arabs were ok...? :S

 

[syera]

haven't u moved there yet? hurry up and go.

 

[Iron]

I suppose now would be an appropriate time to reveal I am of Dutch descent

Dish ish de same for me too.

 

[thorrnydevil]

Are nuns still allowed to wear their little outfits?

Yerah, but the chances of a nun pulling out an AK-47 or walking onto a bus of children with a kilo of TNT are minimal.

 

[crazyhomo]

I don't see any draw backs. If they love Islam so much, they should move to Saudi Arabia and go huddle around Mecca. Don't come here and bring all your nasty cultural ties with you.

you do realise that islam is not a country, right? this is like saying all catholics should go back to rome

 

[crazyhomo]

Yerah, but the chances of a nun pulling out an AK-47 or walking onto a bus of children with a kilo of TNT are minimal.

and women wearing burka's do this all the time

 

[Komaticom]

My 3yo sister saw a woman in a black burka at the local park. She's never gone back since.

 

[thorrnydevil]

and women wearing burka's do this all the time

Umm...just wait...oh yeah...I must have said that women in burkas do this all the time, because you said it.

Read the post before posting.

The only problem with burkas are that they cover the full face, so you can't see if it's a male or female.