English Essay Memorisers!!! (1 Viewer)

Carnivour

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Pierotte said:
Look not everyone is as smart as you. Ok??

What works for you DOESNT work for other people.

You obviously have a knack for languages.

Well different peoples strengths lie in different areas.

Wow!

Different strategies work for different people.

So Little Miss English-is-my-thrid-language-and-ha-ha-ha-i-can-speak-it-better-than-you keep in mind those that despise english, yet its compulsory for them to do it in their HSC. Why should their UAI suffer unnecessarily?

Its not wrong. So you should stop thinking it is.
ahem i really dont think my ability to speak languages helps me in any way to avoid memorisation. btw, i would not have chosen english as a subject had it not been compulsory and it angers me that it is.
obviously my mistake is in actually wanting to make at least some of the time (200 hours or however long the course is meant to be) beneficial to me. for better or for worst none of us seem to have any respect for the education system, but at least i do more than waste my time jumping through hoops. each to his own.
so please, continue to wallow in your crapiness and i will keep posting :) i have nothing better to do with my time!
 

Libbster

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put it this way: i wrote all my essays before the hsc and memorised them. I wrote different text types and practiced alot, handing many into my teacher to get marked.

I worked hard to come up with great essays and for someone to say "oh that way is wrong" is just plain stupid. Most people who memorise (i'm not talking about the people who plagiarise, i'm talking about people that come up with their own ideas and write an original essay (if there is such a thing)) put in just as much work as people who spontaneously write in the exam. To write a memorised essay and get 20/20 (like i did in the trials), u have to adapt to the question, and understand not only the text but understand what the marker wants, and if people are able to that, in my opinion it shows evidence of thinking which is definitely not wrong.
 
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Pierotte

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GAH!!! i just typed a huge bloody reply but wasnt logged in so it got erased. Damn.

Well heres the jist.

ahem i really dont think my ability to speak languages helps me in any way to avoid memorisation.
OFCOURSE your skill in English helped, as you had no need to memorise essays.

But alot of people do have a need.
Some people cant compose a coherent essay in a set time limit to save their life! Some people have small vocabularies or poor grammar that they choose to cover up through memorising essays so that the HSC markers dont have to know about their faults.

So that they can get a good mark.

Theres nothing wrong with that.

How does it affect you?

IT DOESNT!

obviously my mistake is in actually wanting to make at least some of the time (200 hours or however long the course is meant to be) beneficial to me.
As if the memorisers didnt go to class to learn. Of course they did! They had to learn content for their essays, same as you.

The only difference is they went into their HSC exam with a set essay, where as you went in with formed ideas minus a set structure and wording.

Dare i saw they were more prepared than you?

Maybe your jealous that you didnt memorise an absolutely kick arse essay and get 100%.


for better or for worst none of us seem to have any respect for the education system, but at least i do more than waste my time jumping through hoops.
HA! You really are a piece of work.
Firstly the two independent points in that sentence are linked in no way except through your inexplicable arrogance.

Ill skip the respect for education comment, because i dont understand what youre trying to say.

As for the hoop comment if you didn't jump through hoops what did you do?

The 5 hoops are:

To answer the question
Display a creative flair
Fulfill the requirements of the syllabus
Use Sophisticated Language
Give the BOS markers what they want.

There really isnt that much to play with.

So if you didnt jump through those hoops what did you waste your time doing?

huh?

Of course you jumped through he hoops in the hope of a good mark, just like the rest of us!


each to his own.
EXACTLY!!

No one did anything wrong, so stop thinking so.

Are you saying that students who learned model answers for chemistry were cheating?

Education is all about memorising as much as you can in one year, then displaying in a mere two odd hours how much of the relevant information you can remember.

Thats it. Thats all there is to it.


I mean you memorised the alphabet as a child did you not? Are you saying that for spelling tests you were simply s'posed to know the alphabet and how it worked, understand it without fault and know how to apply it without ever memorising how one particularly tricky word is composed??

THIS IS NO DIFFERENT!


so please, continue to wallow in your crapiness and i will keep posting :) i have nothing better to do with my time!
Ah mon cheri i have to crappiness to wallow in, so please, explain that offhanded unjustified comment.



I sincerely think you are a troll, but im stuck at home with a cold and arguing with petty egomaniacs on the net is proving frustratingly amusing.
 

tinklepot

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Pierotte said:
In the end its all about marks, and u do whatever u can to get them.
sums it up perfectly. sure i agree the hsc is mediocre in that it really does appear to be a test of memorisation. but even so...all it comes down to is marks. why bother adopting and advocating an honour-bound approach when in the end all that matters is the marks you get - which would (if you're good enough) be achieved via memorisation?
 

c_james

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I have to ask though; for those of you who are going on to university, where essay writing is required somewhere down the track (more so with humanities based degrees, and still to an extent in commerce and economics), what's the point of memorising your essays? You're going to need to acquire the skill of sophisticated, spontaneous writing at some point, so why get into bad habits from now and start 'faking it'? It doesn't make much sense.

With a memorised essay you lose the element of sponteneity. You end up writing generically 'around' the question rather than directly answering it.

I memorised none of my essays, but did memorise a fair few quotes and know the general concepts I was going to discuss. I got 97 in Advanced (ranked 10th in the state) and 50/50 in Extension 1 (ranked 2nd in the state).
 

Pierotte

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c_james said:
I have to ask though; for those of you who are going on to university, where essay writing is required somewhere down the track (more so with humanities based degrees, and still to an extent in commerce and economics), what's the point of memorising your essays? You're going to need to acquire the skill of sophisticated, spontaneous writing at some point, so why get into bad habits from now and start 'faking it'? It doesn't make much sense.

With a memorised essay you lose the element of sponteneity. You end up writing generically 'around' the question rather than directly answering it.

I memorised none of my essays, but did memorise a fair few quotes and know the general concepts I was going to discuss. I got 97 in Advanced (ranked 10th in the state) and 50/50 in Extension 1 (ranked 2nd in the state).
DAMN!!! i keep writing replies and they keep saying im not logged in! I Am!

ugh anyway.. ill try remember what i said.

Firstly you got a UAI of 100, i dont expect you to understand to empathise in the least.

Uni is different. People did what they did so that they could get into uni.

The nature of the NSW English Advances HSC Course allowed for people to memorise essays.

If one could benefit from doing that isnt it stupid to not do so and suffer for it?

Yes Brogan, Memorising is the dumb mans way out. But the little dumblings want a good UAI too!

I had a good third of each essay memorised (exclusing AOS because i didnt feel the need) and i was alot more relaxed come exam time because of that.

Sometimes i sincerely wish i did memorise complete essays!

Practicing for the HSC i just wrote heaps of practice essays, i then saw what worked and what didnt.

If there was a reoccurring theme that worked particularly well in say 10 essays in a row i would look at that, then pull that point apart, beef it up, then make it more eloquent and commit it to memory.

As in the end every time i go to write an essay its still me with the same thoughts, same ideas, same style.

Why try to reinvent my self every time?

During the exam when the opportunity arose i simply slipped in my golden point, it flowed easily, no time wasted on thinking. I simply made some minor minor adjustments so it directly answered the question.

I never lost my level of spontaneity, as you still have your own style, you still have to answer the question, adopt a relevant tone.

Similarly if there was a structure that i found worked particularly well with a certain type of question i would take note of that, then use it in the HSC rather then fretting over how i should plan my essay.

It would have been dumb NOT to do that!!

Yes all you people who didnt memorise anything you ARE smarter than the average bear.

Is that what u came on here to hear?

Well good. There you go.

Why come on here just to brag? To flaunt it? Thats poor form.

Live, and let live, AND LEAVE! Please.
 

c_james

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brogan77 said:
All u faggots who are being serious about frowning upon those who memorised, seriously SHUT THE FUCK UP, especially Mr. 100UAI, aren't I special, English Boy suck me off. If u haven't noticed, I'm just being a knob. Memorising is fine...seriously who gives a flying fuck...in 80 years time I don't think people are gonna look back and go:
"WHY DID I MEMORISE? WHY? WHY? IT RUINED MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

As I said previously, (As St Nick):
[/i]Fuck the fuck up son. If you're proud of what you got, no matter how u got it, u dont need to defend urself to someone internet random whose obviously trolling.[/i]

Profound words to live by. :uhhuh:

So yeah, I hope my patently ridiculous and absurd contributions helped to fan the flames of this e-argument just a tad. :eek:
Errr...it's called a discussion, and I do believe that's the point of a forum. I'm not frowning upon anyone, simply stating that excessive memorisation develops bad habits LATER in academic life.

It amazes me how defensive some people such as yourself get when someone has a different opinion. Instead of trying to actually form some sort of counter-argument, you launch into profanity.
 
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Pierotte, your signature is very cool ;) Carnivour would say the same, only she's too chicken to. She thinks you'll attack her for disguising her trollness. Seriously, she's the most arrogrant russian biatch you're ever likely to encounter :p *waits for gloz's russian invasion*

P.S. Go Team Memorise! *runs*
 

old man river

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I went the pre-write and memorise method to beat the time constraints. all the tests should have an extra hour tacked on.
 

fleepbasding

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I don't think that memorizing really worked for me. Well, I never memorized (for any subjects), just did up these little plans... and maybe that was the problem- its kind of a half-measure. It neither has the super-essay quality of memorized material or the sponteneity of improvisation. I think it left my English Adv essays in a bit of a mess.

However for history extension, I had some little planned ideas, historiographical quotes etc, only to find in the exam room that neither of the questions suited my preparation. I was completely thrown and was forced to have new ideas on the spot and create and argument with little evidence to back me up. During the writing of each essay I felt terrible, because I thought that my essays were utter shite and all my studting had gone to waste (I studied the most for this subject). I was making up quotes, evidence etc. I thought I wouldn't get more than 40, and that I would be a disgrace to the school, and my number 1 internal ranking woul look completely unjustified. Anyway, history ext ended up being my best exam performance (48/50- 10th in state), while english advanced was my worst (88 exam mark).


So, I don't know what to think now. I just think memorization works for some, and not for others.

As for my opinion/moral judgement on the issue, I can't say I really have one. I don't at all look down on those who memorized responses, but I agree with c_james that you'll have to change the practice to some extent if you want to go as well in university. If you memorized for HSC, fine. The HSC is just a means to an ends, that's how I've always veiwed it.
 

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Leila, much heart to you my darling :) :) :) My Russian army will spare you, just this once.

Pierotte, I'm honestly not a troll, so your posts have not fallen on deaf ears. Neither am I as arrogant as I have come across in these few posts. Its amazing how people automatically assume that I was being arrogant because I had a different point of view to the majority on this thread, and was prepared to put a bit of effort into trying to prove why I prefer my way - and backing it up with my marks (otherwise I would be a bit of a hypocrite, no?). And anyway, this thread directly correlates to the issue AND asks for marks, so I'm taking the opportunity to express my opinion in it.

Brogan, you obviously dont care either way about the issue. I, on the other hand, really do not like the fact that memorising is encouraged in the HSC as an effective intellectual alternative, so I'm taking the opportunity of an internet forum to challenge people who do it. What's so wrong with that? You agree with me that its a bad habit, so why encourage and foster it?

Sure fleebasding, you can change it for university, but why even have the chance to start the bad habits? What essentially results is a whole bunch of kids who leave school thinking "Yeah, memorising works for me. Its the way to go", and who got really good marks in the HSC, which somehow validate the practice. And so, at the risk of sounding melodramatic, the future generation is nothing but a bunch of limited individuals in terms of the capacity of the intellect to perform under stressful situations. Wasn't that the original purpose of examinations?

" Means to an end" is a really, really flawed attitude to any aspect of life, moreso education, which is actually what I meant by one of my previous posts where I said that we have little respect for our education.
 

ishq

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My definition of a memoriser (i.e what I did) -

i. research as to the different possible types of questions
ii. evidence, qoutes, nice lines etc. that could be used in each type.
iii. a definite essay structure for each.
iv. read the question and spend 2 minutes understanding the 'kind' of question it is and which way to handle it.
v. write the damn thing.

For the creative pieces, I literally had 3-5 story plans + other text types up my sleeve - because the kind of stimuli they would give us would definately be generic. This is NOT memorising - its thinking ahead and actually using the stuff you wrote the entire year.


But, seriously - there are some people out there who are what we call 'maths brained' or 'tuned to numbers' who feel so comfortable with have prepared responses. If this works, then I dont think its bad - they are capable of getting such excellent marks - and don't want english to be their downfall (as it sometimes is), so its fair :)

[/ 2 cents]
 

fleepbasding

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Carnivour said:
Sure fleebasding, you can change it for university, but why even have the chance to start the bad habits? What essentially results is a whole bunch of kids who leave school thinking "Yeah, memorising works for me. Its the way to go", and who got really good marks in the HSC, which somehow validate the practice. And so, at the risk of sounding melodramatic, the future generation is nothing but a bunch of limited individuals in terms of the capacity of the intellect to perform under stressful situations. Wasn't that the original purpose of examinations?

" Means to an end" is a really, really flawed attitude to any aspect of life, moreso education, which is actually what I meant by one of my previous posts where I said that we have little respect for our education.
As concerns my "means to an ends" comment- I don't treat my education like that, I treated my HSC like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in love with and devoted to my education.

It's difficult to blame the memorizers themselves. Your beef is really with the board of studies, who's syllabi and examination style have created fertile ground for the practice.
 
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LostAuzzie

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ishq said:
My definition of a memoriser (i.e what I did) -

i. research as to the different possible types of questions
ii. evidence, qoutes, nice lines etc. that could be used in each type.
iii. a definite essay structure for each.
iv. read the question and spend 2 minutes understanding the 'kind' of question it is and which way to handle it.
v. write the damn thing.

For the creative pieces, I literally had 3-5 story plans + other text types up my sleeve - because the kind of stimuli they would give us would definately be generic. This is NOT memorising - its thinking ahead and actually using the stuff you wrote the entire year.


But, seriously - there are some people out there who are what we call 'maths brained' or 'tuned to numbers' who feel so comfortable with have prepared responses. If this works, then I dont think its bad - they are capable of getting such excellent marks - and don't want english to be their downfall (as it sometimes is), so its fair
Thats similar to what I did except I went in with one structure which could be altered to answer the question.

I believe it's better to use whatever skills you have to maximise your marks. As ishq said there are those who are 'math brained', like me, who will find it easier to go in with a prepared response either a full essay or a plan / structure.

Then you have the 'english minded' who would have no problem creating a brilliant essay on the spot going in with some quotes and detailed understanding of the texts.

Carnivour said:
you can change it for university, but why even have the chance to start the bad habits?
Why jeapardise your chances of getting into the course you want for the sake of preventing a bad habit which can be changed for UNI? After all for many of us those exams are primarily about getting into UNI.

I just don't see why memorising to maximise marks and UAI to get into UNI is such a big deal. Once we get into UNI, if we do, we will most likely be doing subjects suited to our brain type and interest. For us 'math minded people' this will probably mean few, if any, essays to write. Certainly no essays on novels which we have little or no interest in.
 
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CieL

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shit memory - cant memorise essays for crap..

different each time i write it.. so i just gave up, and write anything that comes up into my head during exams
 

Carnivour

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congrats brogles, !!! i concede to your hawt intraweb victory !!!

i realised, all along ofcourse, that i wasnt being realistic. still, i argued as much for my own aims as for wanting to have some sort of effect on others. for this reason i still have a couple of things id like to say.

i totally get what you are saying brogan. i understand you are being realistic, whereas im being an idealist and it still makes me sad that people memorise essays, and both types of people at that, as you pointed out - those mathematically orientered and those creatively inclined. in the former, they are passing a chance to acquire what i believe is an extra dimension, an extra skill, regardless of whether they believe its necessary for them or not- ultimately theres no reason why an individual cant attempt to be multi-dimensional with a broad range of skills and ideas, isnt that the very idea of progress? the HSC should encourage that, since it really is the last time those kind of narrow-minded (i dont mean that as an insult) people would have an opportunity to develop themselves so. the average year 12 kid obviously isnt in a position to make such assesments of himself or his future (which is where i think i differ from everyone else on here), so it should be up to the educational board to make these decision for him, so i guess whoever said that my beef is with the board is right.
for people who are creatively minded and chose to memorise...well, i dunno. its a bit beyond me why you would actually consciously not try and extend yourself and your talent, i guess as everyone has pointed out, its the little thing called the UAI, so once again, the board is to blame for their inability to fully harness and extend the talent of such individuals. and like brogan said, on the individual scale the benefits of memorising can seem to outweigh any negatives. but if masses of young people start doing that, what seems like a little step in the overall education is in reality a fairly significant hitch/flaw.

fundamentally, i think i have just been looking at the much larger picture than most people. i view any education system as having a duty before those it attempts to educate to better the society as a whole rather than just filter and categorise it as the HSC/UAI does (using mediocre at best methods anyway). If people (both of high and lesser intelligence) are supressing their intellect for a short-term goal, then society is only working against itself in a long-term, detrimental way. i initially (before this thread ran the course it has) believed individuals within that system should be able to make this conscious decision, but if nothing else, this thread has made me realise they simply cant...therefore my conclusion to this joyous little experiment of mine is : BOARD OF STUDIES :chainsaw:

i have a tonnnnne of other stuff to say about the issue, but i think ive exhausted both myself and everyone else, so ill just let it slide. thanks to everyone who contributed their opinions, and chill: im gone.
:wave:
 
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Carnivour

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haha beat that Leila, he's all mine now :)
im not an insomniac....maybe im just running a fever? who knows.
sweet dreamz :sleep:
 
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Carnivour said:
haha beat that Leila, he's all mine now :)
im not an insomniac....maybe im just running a fever? who knows.
sweet dreamz :sleep:
Great, now i'm going to spend the night at gloria's house and hear about nothing but her sexual escapades with brogan :rolleyes:

P.S thankyou for the intellectual e-jerry springer guys :pain:
 

Carnivour

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brogan77 said:
But yeah, before I go to bed, I'd like to say that in all honesty ur one of the more enjoyable individuals I have ever had an e-discussion with, rational and willing to appreciate and indeed accept views that differ from your own. I wholeheartedly agree with the idealistic sentiment you expressed and freely admit the flawed nature of the system.
If u want a good "lol" recognise that I was initally posting as Ye Olde St Nick in this thread...I like to stir up passion. :eek:

Sleep Well.

ofcourse i realised you were st nick.;)
youre awesome dude. you've stirred my passion. :eek:
 

drmix

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all i can say is i did, and the school ripped me off

internal 78
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HSC 84
 

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