Estimates and Special Provisions (2 Viewers)

[Plebeian]

as the above poster said, how would i feel if id done really well in school then faced a problem in yr 12? well, i would expect to be treated the same as anyone else- if you cant do it then you arent reaching the outcomes and thus shouldnt be getting any sort of uai or anything.
lots of people have problems and dont finish, and they dont get special treatments, they dont get into uni without much effort, instead they end up being royally screwed over and not getting to where they wanted to, or they end up working just as hard as we all are right now to get to where they want to be.

What sort of problems are these? Not many people just drop out of school halfway through Year 12. And for those who do have significant problems, that is the entire point of Educational Access Schemes etc. which compensate for the disadvantage.

If they had a choice, I'm pretty sure no good student would want to have a breakdown so they could "rest easy" and fudge their way into Uni - because they'd be risking the chance of getting a poor estimate. If she had a breakdown, she was probably working too hard - I don't think it's an issue of laziness.

 

[flipsyde]

Exactly.... Its not a laziness issue or anything. Those of you who havent had a breakdown shouldnt be so cold-hearted towards her because its the worst thing in the world. If shes worked hard she deserves it. If she sat the exams she'dmost probably screw them up or something.. why should she have to live with that the rest of her life because of somethign she couldnt help? Depression is an illness just like anything else.. If someone had say... ummm glandular fever during year 12 and couldnt sit there exams, then u'd be fine with them getting an estimate wouldnt u.. well glandular fever is an illness to, just as depression is.

 

[ur_inner_child]

there are some who completely fake it.

I know a girl that broke one of her fingers before her music prac exam to get an estimate... and since she's had straight A's...

seriously why did she bother seeing as though she's done so well at school??? I reckon it gets back to them - I don't think she can play piano the same now.

 

[flipsyde]

Oh I agree, Definately but I'm just making a point that people with depression (like for real not faking it) deserve an estimate just the same as anyone else with an illness

 

[iamsickofyear12]

I don't think people who cannot complete the HSC (for any reason) should get an estimate. I do think they should be given another chance to do it.

Specifically with people suffering depression that is not in my opinion a good enough reason to just get half the year estimated. A chance an doing it over next year would be fairer.

What I'm trying to say is the HSC just isn't about the marks, its about doing the whole HSC just like everyone else does.

With special provisions the deal should be anyone who had done exams the same as the rest of their year group up until year 12 shouldn't be elligible. Suddenly it comes year 12 and all these people suddenly reliase they have 'disabilities' that means they need special provisions.

One particular person I know just went and got them so he could use a laptop. Apparently he writes slow. This other person is 20 UAI points smarter than me and he has special provisions because he 'reads slow'. Then theres this other guy who gets a laptop and extra time because he writes with his arm instead of wrist.

Why are there special provisions for 17 and 18 year olds who can't read and write? If you can't read and write drop out at year 10 otherwise deal with it and do the exam like everyone else.

 

[yulia]

I don't think people who cannot complete the HSC (for any reason) should get an estimate. I do think they should be given another chance to do it.

Specifically with people suffering depression that is not in my opinion a good enough reason to just get half the year estimated. A chance an doing it over next year would be fairer.

What I'm trying to say is the HSC just isn't about the marks, its about doing the whole HSC just like everyone else does.

With special provisions the deal should be anyone who had done exams the same as the rest of their year group up until year 12 shouldn't be elligible. Suddenly it comes year 12 and all these people suddenly reliase they have 'disabilities' that means they need special provisions.

One particular person I know just went and got them so he could use a laptop. Apparently he writes slow. This other person is 20 UAI points smarter than me and he has special provisions because he 'reads slow'. Then theres this other guy who gets a laptop and extra time because he writes with his arm instead of wrist.

Why are there special provisions for 17 and 18 year olds who can't read and write? If you can't read and write drop out at year 10 otherwise deal with it and do the exam like everyone else.

They should drop out because they can't read or write? So all dyslexic people should drop out? It is not their fault when things like that happen, and you'll find despite they have difficulties reading and writing, some of them are quite brilliant. Should they be punished because they can't read and write like the rest of us? How is it fair to THEM to have their intelligence shut down and kicked out just because they're disadvantaged in a way.

But that's what it is all about. Disadvantages. And I don't think anyone can judge what is right or wrong unless they've experienced the disadvantage or watched how it affects someone.

Why should someone who inadvertantly had a breakdown have to redo the HSC all over again? How is it fair to set their life back a year? Do you really think that's going to help them at all? Why should they be punished for something that they couldn't control?

And that is something that depression sufferers say would make dealing with their illness a hell of a lot easier - taking away the stigma people associate with depression. It IS an illness, it CAN'T be helped, it's like a vicious circle where you keep plummeting further and further down because you watch yourself, you watch how people respond to you, and it just pushes you further down the spiral. Depression isn't just circumstantial, it's psychological, they can't help what's going on, and like I said, if you don't think it is a good excuse, then obviously have no idea what it's like or how it changes a person.

TRUE it's not fair when the situation isn't real, but depression is a very real, at times life threatening illness. While I agree many people abuse the system, it's needed for people who go through something like this - they can't help it.

 

[neo o]

EAS and special provisions are over-rated.

1) A guy at school got meningitis (or some other exotic disease, we still dont know) missed alot of school and opted to repeat instead of relying on special provisions to help him through - because they would have done him no good.

2) The only guy on special provisions at my school gets 5 minutes extra where he can't write, for his 'writing condition' big deal.

3) I'm APPLYING for EAS for legit personal health problems and family problems, I won't get more than 1/2 - 1 UAI point allowance. I might not even get it.

Who cares honestly?

 

[spooky's.gal]

I don't think people who cannot complete the HSC (for any reason) should get an estimate.
the HSC just isn't about the marks, its about doing the whole HSC just like everyone else does.

exactly. we arent saying that EVERYBODY is getting provisions etc based on lies. no one said that they went and had nervous breakdowns, or decided to have depression on purpose. and no one said that having depression, mental issues, family probs etc was a good thing.
the whole point is that during the HSC we are all supposed to be marked equally, based on the same criteria. lots and lots of people have problems that dont qualify for special provisions or an estimate, yet they still struggle through just like everybody else. many people dont want anyone to know about home problems or mental issues and thus dont apply for provisions. they still do the HSC along with everyone else.
*everybody* has issues, all the time. some more important than others, but they are still there. if nobody had any problems then we would all get 99.5 for a uai.
the HSC is all about making it through all of high school, all the work, and all of the exams. it is not about whether you might dissapoint yourself and be upset. it is not about whether you have family troubles, or any other problems. we are marked on how well we survive, and if somebody cant - due to whatever reason - then i dont think they should get any kind of estimate/uai/etc. so some people might be at a disadvantage, deal with it! life isnt going to map itself out for you just because you got depressed. the world isnt going to treat you like your somebody special just coz you had family issues. it is not about that, it is about who can get through this and come out the best, sure its unfair, but so is life, so get used to it now before you get into the real world. it will save you a lot of trouble in the long run.

 

[yulia]

...many people dont want anyone to know about home problems or mental issues and thus dont apply for provisions. they still do the HSC along with everyone else...

...if nobody had any problems then we would all get 99.5 for a uai...

...we are marked on how well we survive...

...and if somebody cant - due to whatever reason - then i dont think they should get any kind of estimate/uai/etc...

so some people might be at a disadvantage, deal with it!...

life isnt going to map itself out for you just because you got depressed. the world isnt going to treat you like your somebody special just coz you had family issues. it is not about that, it is about who can get through this and come out the best, sure its unfair, but so is life, so get used to it now before you get into the real world. it will save you a lot of trouble in the long run.

1- While problems are difficult to share, everything done with provisions and disadvantage is kept completely confidential, if they DID share it, then they would receive special provisions and the like, it's not the fault of the people who have opened up and have notified people that some people feel to trapped or ashamed to do so. Btw have you noticed the stigma where some of you believe "Depression isn't an excuse" just might be part of the reason why they are ashamed in the first place to reach out?

2- No they wouldn't. There are people who are lazy, there are people who just don't care, there are people who think they're better than they really are, and there are those who just aren't suited to the academic life and will not perform well simply because it's not their vocation.

3- No, the HSC isn't an examination on how you live your life, it's an examination on set criteria they want us to learn, it's an examination on how well you've learnt what the BOS believes you need to learn, it's an examination on how well you understand what you're meant to being taught. Nowhere in the syllabus have I found a dot point saying that they are testing me on how well I've coped or how I've lived my life - it's an academic exam, so don't try and turn it into some garbage life challenge. You're trying to make it out to be some really huge thing in someone's life, and while it is a major event and while it does determine things, it is NOT the end of the world, it does NOT stop you from what you really want to do, it's not that important, it tests you on what you've learnt, not how you've lived.

4- You sound like someone who's never experienced some outside influence that has vexed you in anyway, if you had you would know things occur in a person's life that cannot be helped, and can change a person's mindset dramatically. It takes less than a second for something to change someone's life and change who they are completely, when that happens, it really screws up your outlook and how you respond to things, and when you start experiencing these things, HSC and studying is the last thing you think about, because in contrast to the things you are experiencing, it just does not compare, it is nothing.

5- YOU deal with the fact that some people haven't had such a breezy life and experience things that really screw them up in the head. If you had any idea what disadvantage is like you wouldn't make such a superficial comment.

6- Perhaps it is you who has not experienced the real world. Things that can intefer with people mentally which would obstruct their ability to achieve their good marks in the HSC usually stem from something a little more worldly than the HSC, have more importance to life than the HSC - are something that's coming from the 'real world'. They're not asking people to treat them like they're special, they're asking for people to understand that normally, they would do well, but under the circumstances which they cannot control, they're not able to achieve what they could. People in the outside world are also quite understanding about this too. Humans being humans to some degree are empathetic and throughout life you will find people willing to make allowances because of the state you are in. While there are some people scamming the system, and it's people like THAT who are causing the problems, so perhaps there needs to be a better screening process, those who are severely depressed or have gone through family issues cannot control what has happened to them, and cannot control how they are going to react and it is not their fault that they aren't performing how they could.

The HSC really isn't that important. When my school found out what had happened to me, they told me I had to let something go in my life, and right now that has to be my HSC - I was expected to top 4 of the 6 subjects I take - but they told me, I couldn't be expected to do anything like that anymore, and that I can't worry about it, because compared to the stuff I have experienced, the HSC is NOTHING. So maybe it is you who has to experience the real world, because if you had, you would understand why things like this are needed.

 

[spooky's.gal]

response to yulia
omg, what a terrible terrible shock. someone has a different idea than what you think. shock horror! better get to work telling them what they should think and what they should feel. im sure everyone will change their minds just coz *you* tell them too, seeing as your such an expert.
i sure as hell hope that you dont ever get into a position of power. god help us all if you do.

 

[flipsyde]

They werent telling u what to feel they were providing you with facts in order to demonstrate their point. We all have the right to our own opinion you know.

 

[Dougie]

i like ur style...
but some of the stuff said makes some sense

 

[spooky's.gal]

exactly, we all have a right to an opinion. yet she is telling me what my opinion should be.
and they arent *facts*, unless the definition of facts has been changed to 'examples one invents in order to support their own opinions'

 

[Plebeian]

exactly, we all have a right to an opinion. yet she is telling me what my opinion should be.

WTF? She isn't being any more "definitive" than statements such as this from you:

the HSC is all about making it through all of high school, all the work, and all of the exams. it is not about whether you might dissapoint yourself and be upset. it is not about whether you have family troubles, or any other problems

I don't see any "I think it is not about whether you might disappoint yourself" or "I think it is not about whether you have family troubles" in there.
You presented your arguments in just as much of a "I'm right/you're wrong" way, stop harping about phraseology and stick to the issue.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

People with genuine reasons for special provisions should get them, I am not saying that all special provisions should be banned but right now the system is screwed. The majority of people who get them now have no reason to need them.

I don't think anyone should ever get estimates for any reason. To get a HSC and UAI you should have to complete the HSC 100%.

 

[Dougie]

i think estimates r valid if there is a genuine reason, like attempted suicide or something. the BoS aren't out to make u do it again so u can try to kill urself again!!
now matter what we like to believ, they aren't out to kill us!!!

 

[Kate_J]

I think we can all say that everyone seems to have the opinion that the system is a little bit screwed at the moment, we just have different opinions about what should be given special provisions etc. In my experience there are some screw up's in both ways, one of my friends and been given extra time, she may need some but not has much as she has been given. While another friend definatley needs extra time, but the board decided to not give it to him.
I really don't understand the argument about people should have to do 100% of the HSC to get their results. It just doesn't make sense, a huge percentage of year 12 students will miss part of their HSC whether it be an assessment because they are sick or an exam. I don't get why if someone misses something for a legit reason why they should have to repeat the whole year again, how would you feel if it was you in that position.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

i think estimates r valid if there is a genuine reason, like attempted suicide or something. the BoS aren't out to make u do it again so u can try to kill urself again!!
now matter what we like to believ, they aren't out to kill us!!!

I really don't understand the argument about people should have to do 100% of the HSC to get their results. It just doesn't make sense, a huge percentage of year 12 students will miss part of their HSC whether it be an assessment because they are sick or an exam. I don't get why if someone misses something for a legit reason why they should have to repeat the whole year again, how would you feel if it was you in that position.

1. Estimates shouldn't be given for attempted suicide when it means not doing half the years work. Instead they should be given the chance to redo the HSC next year.

2. Missing 1 assessment or exam is fine. I'm talking about the people who miss heaps of it. Maybe I should have said something like 95%.

 

[spooky's.gal]

I don't see any "I think it is not about whether you might disappoint yourself" or "I think it is not about whether you have family troubles" in there.

Gee, im awful sorry. i didnt realise that i needed to add those in, coz see i thought that the people reading these were intelligent. wait i'll use a smaller word that you might get; 'smart'.
i mean, this is a freakin forum for teenagers, i didnt think that i needed to point out that i was only stating an opinion, and not fact. im not here pretending that i work for the BOS, im just talking and sharing my opinion. i thought people might get that staight off. you just showed me i was wrong, and i will admit that in that thought i was wrong.
dont worry, i'll be sure to make everything nice and simple for you in the future, just in case.

 

[yulia]

response to yulia
omg, what a terrible terrible shock. someone has a different idea than what you think. shock horror! better get to work telling them what they should think and what they should feel. im sure everyone will change their minds just coz *you* tell them too, seeing as your such an expert.
i sure as hell hope that you dont ever get into a position of power. god help us all if you do.

Ok, I want you to stand in the mirror, say that outloud, and then listen to yourself. Everything you've just said can be applied right back at you.

and as for your LAST response, don't pull apart and analyse someone else's post, say the exact same thing, and get upset when someone does it back to you.

I was never telling anyone they were wrong, my point is, unless you've experienced a time of disadvantage, then you can't understand how important it is; and unless you've been there/seen it, then you can't understand what depression is like, therefore, don't say it's not a good excuse, you have no idea what it is like.

(Oh and as for power, I was level 199 in the boredfostudies chatroom, and everything was fine then )