existence of the aether model (1 Viewer)

[sunjet]

My teacher said we cannot simply say that the null result of Michelson-Morley's experiment disproved the existence of aether model as it just FAILED to find any evidence of aether's existence. However, Einstein's first postulate says that "the laws of physics are the same in all frames of reference." thus the principle of relativity cannot be violated by optical experiments. Didn't this imply that aether does not exist?
(altho the existence of aether model does not matter now, i'm still keen to the know whether it exists or not?)

your teacher is correct, the null result was only explained by einstein, not whether it existed or not, i read in some science magazine(dont ask ;p) earlier in the year scientists are still trying to prove the existence.

 

[Xenocide]

I don't see how i can make it any clearer.... if the speed of light is constant (as Einstein proposed), an absolute frame of reference (the ether) cannot exist.

 

[ark]

Ark:

please let me know where i go wrong:

(1) The ether was a proposed medium for light which had the KEY property of being an ABSOLUTE reference frame

(2) Einstein proved that the speed of light was constant

These two statements are fundamentally incompatible. If there was an ansolute frame of reference, then light would only have a speed RELATIVE to the ether and would no longer be constant.

In summation, there are 2 options that are possible:

1) Einsteing was wrong about the speed of light and subsequent experiments also gave erroneous results

2) The ether exists, but does not have the property of being an ansolute frame of reference

If 1) is true.... we are in some trouble.

If 2) is true then where is the point in theorising an ether anyway (read: it become superflous)

(note: there is a third property which involved the aether having properties that closely mimic special relativity, but that is just silly)

There has been such evidence as muons, they're some things that come from the sun or somthing (not too sure) radiation thingys and they have a life of 2.2 microseconds when measured in the same frame of reference as these muons but yet they can still reach the atmosphere of the earth. to the stratophere i think, and to travel the distance from the sun to the earth its take a bit longer than 2.2miscroseconds, so if they traveled 0.9C these muons would experience time dilation so when we as a stationary observer 'see' the muons traveling they would have a life of 5microseconds.
these results can only point in one direction, that einstein is right and since originally the ether model was created to explain how light traveled through the vacuum of space without no medium. the Thomas young double spilt experiment showed that light was indeed a wave and had properties of waves such as diffraction and interference which are DEFINATE WAVE PROPERTIES. NOW there is no need to explain how light travels through space without a medium becoz visible light is E.M.R. which require no medium to travel in. So I conclude it wasnt the ether model was dis-proved its move there is no need for it now.

AND i think you are thinking too much about this concept, you have like made up your own theories and stuff, juss concerate on the HSC then in uni or wwotever u can make up ur crazy ideas.

and i just read over your question again ur saying that light becomes relative to the ether? and then there is no absolute frame of reference? something like that right? but Einsteins special relativity thingy says speed of light is THE absolute frame of reference which means no matter how fast ur moving u will measure the speed of light the same as any other person measuring the speed of light in a different frame of reference.

hmm... ok now im not sure if i answer ur question i juss typed wotever came into my head so yeah...

 

[KFunk]

There has been such evidence as muons, they're some things that come from the sun or somthing (not too sure) radiation thingys

Muons get created in the atmosphere when Pi mesons decay. The pi mesons themselves are formed by interactions involving cosmic rays in the upper atmosphere (pi mesons being a form of meson which are two quark particles). Muons are like heavy electrons.

 

[colless]

Ark I think you are slightly confused..... While all that irrelevant information about muons is fascinating as it does provide an easily accessible example of time dilation, you failed to answer my main questions. If Einstein proved/hypothesised that light was constant in all frames of reference and we take this as true then how could the aether (an absolute frame of reference) exist?

 

[Xenocide]

That was me btw ^^^. Also, in resposne to:

"AND i think you are thinking too much about this concept, you have like made up your own theories and stuff, juss concerate on the HSC then in uni or wwotever u can make up ur crazy ideas."

I simply make the point that perhaps you should think about the material you are trying to memorise instead of accepting it as it is force fed to you.

Though in regard to this matter, this is not some 'crazy idea' this is basic physics...

 

[ark]

Ark I think you are slightly confused..... While all that irrelevant information about muons is fascinating as it does provide an easily accessible example of time dilation, you failed to answer my main questions. If Einstein proved/hypothesised that light was constant in all frames of reference and we take this as true then how could the aether (an absolute frame of reference) exist?

sorry to bring up an old thread, but i must answer this guys questions...

firstly i am not confused, it seems u are confused.
Secondly ur saying IF Einsteins theory of special relativity is true meaning the speed of light is constant in all frames of reference, how can the ether exist? right?
Well then... the ether model was made up to explain how light travelled in the vacuum of space they considered ether to be the absolute frame of reference, meaning everything was relative to ether. BUT Einstein said, nup the speed of light is constant in all frames of reference which means speed of light becomes the absolute frame of refernce. so everything becomes relative to the speed of light. Also visible light was found out to be EMR which require NO MEDIUM to travel through, so in the end, the ether model become irrelavant to explaining how light travelled through the vacuum of space. The initial reason for creating the ether model lost its reasons.

hmm... that is all.. and if im wrong please someone correct me.

 

[Xenocide]

Ok haven't looked here for a while but:

You said " which means speed of light becomes the absolute frame of refernce"

which implies that the aether cannot be an absolute frame of reference as they cannot BOTH be absolute frame of references.

Therefore your statement implies that the aether cannot exist, ie what i was saying all along. So I think we basically agree but we have been confusing each other with semantics.

 

[Marathonman]

This is a very old thread yet what i have to say is as relevant 100 years ago as well as today.
the basic heavyweights that laid the foundations of our present day society believed in the Aether and it's concepts "all of them. it wasn't until the bafoon Einstein came along that things went down hill very fast. see the power that pull the strings in our governments were deathly afraid of loosing their control over all of societies because of the fact that Maxwell not only proved through his mathematics that free energy was posible but Nicola Tesla and others "PROVED IT"
the laugh i get is when so called educated people quote Einstein like they know even what they are talking about. Einstein was to stupid through school as well as an adult to formulate a plan to keep his shoes ties let a lone formulate the calculations of Physics. the power elite used Einstein as a puppet to fool everyone thus totally derailing science and physics as we know it. WHY ?

because the facts that good ole J.P. Morgan and friends would loose control of the masses and could not put a meter on it to control the public at large. at age 15 Einstein was failing almost "EVERY" subject in school and dropped out. so you foolish people expect me to believe he had some ground breaking realizations on physics a year later. good god how stupid do you think people are. there is no way is H@ll he could of accomplished this. not only that "EVERY" so called equation or action of our universe were Plagiarized by the power elite then posted it under the Bafoon man Einstein to make the world believe he was actually smart.

Many greedy Physicist were PAID by the power elite to rid all traces of free energy just for a buck then reduced Tesla and many other good scientist to nothing or even murdering them.

sorry folks but the truth must be set free and you need to pull your head out of your back side and realize just what these power elite will do to maintain their control. they will stop at nothing to attain their control including murder and destruction of whole countries.

yes i believe in the Aether concept and yes i believe all of Physics laws were put into place to halt all advancements of Physics and Science as well a blocking the advancement of humanity.

Regards,
Marathonman

 

[Drdusk]

This is a very old thread yet what i have to say is as relevant 100 years ago as well as today.
the basic heavyweights that laid the foundations of our present day society believed in the Aether and it's concepts "all of them. it wasn't until the bafoon Einstein came along that things went down hill very fast. see the power that pull the strings in our governments were deathly afraid of loosing their control over all of societies because of the fact that Maxwell not only proved through his mathematics that free energy was posible but Nicola Tesla and others "PROVED IT"
the laugh i get is when so called educated people quote Einstein like they know even what they are talking about. Einstein was to stupid through school as well as an adult to formulate a plan to keep his shoes ties let a lone formulate the calculations of Physics. the power elite used Einstein as a puppet to fool everyone thus totally derailing science and physics as we know it. WHY ?

because the facts that good ole J.P. Morgan and friends would loose control of the masses and could not put a meter on it to control the public at large. at age 15 Einstein was failing almost "EVERY" subject in school and dropped out. so you foolish people expect me to believe he had some ground breaking realizations on physics a year later. good god how stupid do you think people are. there is no way is H@ll he could of accomplished this. not only that "EVERY" so called equation or action of our universe were Plagiarized by the power elite then posted it under the Bafoon man Einstein to make the world believe he was actually smart.

Many greedy Physicist were PAID by the power elite to rid all traces of free energy just for a buck then reduced Tesla and many other good scientist to nothing or even murdering them.

sorry folks but the truth must be set free and you need to pull your head out of your back side and realize just what these power elite will do to maintain their control. they will stop at nothing to attain their control including murder and destruction of whole countries.

yes i believe in the Aether concept and yes i believe all of Physics laws were put into place to halt all advancements of Physics and Science as well a blocking the advancement of humanity.

Regards,
Marathonman

Mate by the way the Earth is actually flat and vaccines are used by the government to control people. The elite will stop at nothing to gain power and control so they paid off the scientists to tell everyone the Earth is a round ball and also to create fake images of Earth being round. Every year people actually die by falling off the edge of the Earth but the elite have soo much power and control over governments that they suppress the news of their deaths.

God I laugh when intelligent people start telling me the Earth is round because I’ve done a PHD in Physics and it’s soo obvious that they’ve been manipulated by the elite.

 

[dighead]

This is a very old thread yet what i have to say is as relevant 100 years ago as well as today.
the basic heavyweights that laid the foundations of our present day society believed in the Aether and it's concepts "all of them. it wasn't until the bafoon Einstein came along that things went down hill very fast. see the power that pull the strings in our governments were deathly afraid of loosing their control over all of societies because of the fact that Maxwell not only proved through his mathematics that free energy was posible but Nicola Tesla and others "PROVED IT"
the laugh i get is when so called educated people quote Einstein like they know even what they are talking about. Einstein was to stupid through school as well as an adult to formulate a plan to keep his shoes ties let a lone formulate the calculations of Physics. the power elite used Einstein as a puppet to fool everyone thus totally derailing science and physics as we know it. WHY ?

because the facts that good ole J.P. Morgan and friends would loose control of the masses and could not put a meter on it to control the public at large. at age 15 Einstein was failing almost "EVERY" subject in school and dropped out. so you foolish people expect me to believe he had some ground breaking realizations on physics a year later. good god how stupid do you think people are. there is no way is H@ll he could of accomplished this. not only that "EVERY" so called equation or action of our universe were Plagiarized by the power elite then posted it under the Bafoon man Einstein to make the world believe he was actually smart.

Many greedy Physicist were PAID by the power elite to rid all traces of free energy just for a buck then reduced Tesla and many other good scientist to nothing or even murdering them.

sorry folks but the truth must be set free and you need to pull your head out of your back side and realize just what these power elite will do to maintain their control. they will stop at nothing to attain their control including murder and destruction of whole countries.

yes i believe in the Aether concept and yes i believe all of Physics laws were put into place to halt all advancements of Physics and Science as well a blocking the advancement of humanity.

Regards,
Marathonman

Mate by the way the Earth is actually flat and vaccines are used by the government to control people. The elite will stop at nothing to gain power and control so they paid off the scientists to tell everyone the Earth is a round ball and also to create fake images of Earth being round. Every year people actually die by falling off the edge of the Earth but the elite have soo much power and control over governments that they suppress the news of their deaths.

God I laugh when intelligent people start telling me the Earth is round because I’ve done a PHD in Physics and it’s soo obvious that they’ve been manipulated by the elite.

Pfft you people actually believe that the Earth is real and that we're not in a controlled computer simulation? Wake up sheeple.

 

[Marathonman]

Typical tactics to avoid the real implications stated.
as i stated the real Physics behind the real workings of our universe have been purposely swept under the rug by the power elite. if do not think so you must be living in a fantasy of not on this planet. EVERYTHING that would give us freedom to express are selves has been taken away or hidden from sight. FACT!
Regards,
Marathonman

 

[Drdusk]

Typical tactics to avoid the real implications stated.
as i stated the real Physics behind the real workings of our universe have been purposely swept under the rug by the power elite. if do not think so you must be living in a fantasy of not on this planet. EVERYTHING that would give us freedom to express are selves has been taken away or hidden from sight. FACT!
Regards,
Marathonman

I'm not using any tactics. Im agreeing with you!

I'm currently getting a PHD in Physics and have personally been approached by the elites before who have tried to pay me to spread the lie of Einstein and the world being round. Now they are trying to censor me and are threatening me if I go against their will. They will not prevail though as I intend to get the truth out there!

The elite will not win over us trust me. More and more fellow students of mine are starting to realize the indoctrination of science that they have undergone and we are starting to shed light on the power and control the elites have over our fellow scientists.

 

[Marathonman]

It is a crying shame that in the society today there is so much lies and deceit for so long that the younger generations have no clue as to the perpetual lies shoved down peoples throats. things i could find out 20 years ago on the net have been purposely scrubbed from view giving the younger ones such an increasingly narrower view of information. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize this is taking place, all one has to do is step out from the education umbrella the Rothschilds created to control all information for one to realize this.
Einstein was to dumb to have executed the plagiarism by himself which was the power Elite's doing to halt all advancements of science and physics as we know it. Heaviside, Lorentz, and possible Gibbins were PAID to trunicate Maxwell's equations to rid all traces of free energy (ie. more out then in) scenario. Maxwell had even inadvertently unified everything and was even published in Encyclopedia Britannica way before dumb Einstein was born and the Lorentz transformation when he was 8 years old.
all this started around 1880 to 1890 when the power elite began worrying about the possibility of free energy. this is the entire reason Tesla was marginalized and reduce to feeding pigeons on a park bench because he wanted to give the world free energy. just because "YOU" think it is not viable doesn't mean it is not so.
our world has been spinning for billions of years and will continue for billions more when we are long gone so if that is not perpetual enough for you one might need to check into a hospital for a mental evaluation. realize we have been feed a massive amount of lies for 6,000 years so the sooner you realize this the better off you people will be to start a new chapter in humanity, otherwise we are dead and gone.

Regards,
Marathonman