Free Trade Talks (2 Viewers)

[Enlightened_One]

Yeah, well I don't trust the deal myself. The US and Australia farm a lot of the same things. Cattle, cotton etc. I think that for the US to undermine their own farmers is unbelievable. It will benefit them in the long run.

 

[Bambul]

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed it or not, but most of the aruments for the FTA are political, not economic. As are most of the arguments against the FTA.

On an interesting note, a true economic rationalist would oppose the deal. Just thought I'd mention that.

I just wish people would try to make a decision on this from what economists say, not what politicians and lobby groups say. Hence the reason for the mass political reasoning for and against the deal (rather than the more rational/objective economic reasoning).

I hope I got through this post without portraying much of an opinion.

 

[neo o]

Bambul. I love you and want to have your babies.

 

[Enlightened_One]

That's what I was trying to get to Bambul, if you think about it, what can we give each other (America and Australia) that the other one doesn't have.

 

[Alexander]

...jobs???

 

[Enlightened_One]

We'll see...

 

[Turner]

Originally posted by Enlightened_One
That's what I was trying to get to Bambul, if you think about it, what can we give each other (America and Australia) that the other one doesn't have.

cheaper...

food
tv
high-technology goods
IT services

 

[Toodulu]

Originally posted by Enlightened_One
That's what I was trying to get to Bambul, if you think about it, what can we give each other (America and Australia) that the other one doesn't have.

it's not about getting new things, it's about getting better and more things. the question is, who is this better for?

Originally posted by Alexander
The reality is...we aint all that special: Convicts - outlaws - few foreign wars - turn away from motherlund - SCREW indigenous owners - turn away or lock up needy people - evolve into bonsia (little bush).
Whatever we call culture or tradition isnt anything all that commendable and certainly not something we all agree on.

i think you've all misunderstood what they meant by australian culture and identity. i don't think any of that has anything to do with the effects the FTA will have on australian actors and musos

btw, interesting article http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/09/1081326924699.html

 

[Enlightened_One]

Originally posted by Alexander
The reality is...we aint all that special: Convicts - outlaws - few foreign wars - turn away from motherlund - SCREW indigenous owners - turn away or lock up needy people - evolve into bonsia (little bush).
Whatever we call culture or tradition isnt anything all that commendable and certainly not something we all agree on.

Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but the American culture is worse than ours I think.

 

[Alexander]

Although American culture is much more clear. I mean, at least there is honour in a legitimate 'birth'. We cant even agree on that...we're getting so politically correct that we cant officially agree where 'australia' begun...they wont to get rid of icons on botany bay and no one in sydney would admit that we were launched in Melbourne (first parliament).
If we just went that further step during the eureka blockade, then we might've had a glorious revolution, just like the yanks...a defining point in their culture. There are aspects of US culture that are...base, but on the whole it is rich, historical and exciting 'I reckon'

 

[fi_babezy]

how can this be even...5o% to 5o% :S

 

[olay]

Originally posted by Alexander
There's certainly movement with China, they probably require a more clear stance with taiwan though before anything major. But I dont think China trade compares with US trade...maybe with raw materials, but yeah.
As with culture, im sure the intentions of the negotiators are honourable, but as soon as FREE trade is agreed to, with alot of AUST products leaving our shores, and an influx of US products on the market, i worry that we'll find nothing uniquely australian and have our current problem accentuated, that is, an almost total ignorance and lazyness towards big issues from youth. Nightmare.

ermm are u serious? i'm pretty sure we export more to china than to the US, we just gobble up a lot more US imports. which is technically a bad thing. and with the massive expansion of china atm, we're looking at them demanding a lot of raw material from us, and gas i think. which will be a nice healthy boost to our economy. that PBS thing was crap >=/ i'm glad they're not scrapping it. i don't see any gains from the trade agreement with the US, and isn't it more a trade preference anyway? diverting trade from the asia pacific towards the US? i'm seeing the rise coming from asia at the moment, so i don't see why australia should chop trade from there to the US, which is on the decline.

 

[ameh]

Originally posted by Alexander
Although American culture is much more clear. I mean, at least there is honour in a legitimate 'birth'. We cant even agree on that...we're getting so politically correct that we cant officially agree where 'australia' begun...they wont to get rid of icons on botany bay and no one in sydney would admit that we were launched in Melbourne (first parliament).
If we just went that further step during the eureka blockade, then we might've had a glorious revolution, just like the yanks...a defining point in their culture. There are aspects of US culture that are...base, but on the whole it is rich, historical and exciting 'I reckon'

I think where a country 'begins' or starts off is when someone makes something of it...if that makes sense. For example, there is dough; the so called "terra nullius" and to make this terra nullius into a great city, a nation, it needs to be colonised (well doesnt really, but atleast somewhat 'civilised' so technology can prosper) and this dough needs to be kneaded (colonised) to make cake; what it is now!

Sorry weird example..but hopefully u get my point?

 

[Alexander]

Hmmmm. At first I was very monarchist because I thought that it was our roots and culture, which it is, but after reading an old speech by keating about the republic im starting to swing that way.
The monarchy and all things british will always have a special place in australian hearts, but judging from these big cultural arguments and globilisation, it really is time that we were gave birth to a unique and strong identity for ourselves, summing up our loose qualities like 'fair go'

 

[olay]

Originally posted by Alexander
Hmmmm. At first I was very monarchist because I thought that it was our roots and culture, which it is, but after reading an old speech by keating about the republic im starting to swing that way.
The monarchy and all things british will always have a special place in australian hearts, but judging from these big cultural arguments and globilisation, it really is time that we were gave birth to a unique and strong identity for ourselves, summing up our loose qualities like 'fair go'

i don't get what thats got to do with the free trade talk.....???

 

[Alexander]

The cultural implications it could have and maybe the need to clearly define our culture before it's too late. If I could go back to the guys who federated us i would ask 'if it wasnt broke, why did you fix it?'
Sure this is out of character, but it's election year and im apparently lil jonny

 

[Enlightened_One]

We were federated to create on country and stop the squabbling between the different colonies and introduce standards across the continent.
Before federation they couldn't even build a train line between Melbourne and Sydney because they used different sleeper sizes, and therefore one track was wider. It was things like that caused us the need to Federate.
Otherwise we'd right now be six different countries with six different laws.

 

[fi_babezy]

does anybody here have any opinions on free trade agreements with south american countries?

 

[Alexander]

My uneducated opinion is that free trade only benifits two countries if they are not only culturally but industrially similar. NAFTA is a good example of mexico being stuffed a fair bit by a very unbalanced deal.

 

[fi_babezy]

http://www.wto.org/- world trade org site


So, from what you have said..could it be deduced that trade agreements wouldn't necessarily help alleviate the problems that were the reason for their creation, e.g to help alleviate debt problems in the particular country. And from your example of Mexico the effect of new trade agreements could further jeopordise the monetary problems of that country.. (have u got any other examples)