Graduate accounting positions (1 Viewer)

[Archimedes]

Hi all,

For the benefit of those who are starting graduate positions soon (like myself) what are your tips and do you have any advice?

Needless to say, I'm looking to hear from those who are already working in an accounting firm and may be able to shed some light. I'll talk to all my friends in due course, but I thought it'd be interesting to open this up here on this forum as well.

Post away!

 

[seremify007]

May I ask which firm?

I think each firm has it's own training procedures/introduction/welcomes... so it's hard to really provide any tips without knowing more information.

 

[Archimedes]

You probably wouldn't know much about it, as it's not one of the big 4. Perhaps I was using the phrase "mid-tier" a little liberally as the firm I'm going to be working at isn't as big as, say, BDO or Grant Thornton or any of those similar sized firms.

I was hoping for some more general advice really. I don't really expect that anyone here would know anything about my particular firm. Oh, and I'd prefer not to disclose this information on a public forum either

 

[seremify007]

Fair enough.

 

[The90kwBeast]

Hey mate,

Ive been working in a smaller firm on the north coast for 8 months as a trainee auditor and can definately give you some tips and tricks. May I ask are you starting in Tax or Audit?

Cheers

Kurt

 

[phrred]

How do pay rises work in big 4 and mid tier? Does it automatically go up every year by a little bit or do you have to work for it

 

[seremify007]

I think in alot of firms, the lower levels tend to be across the board. It's only once you reach Senior that it starts to be connected with KPIs both of the individuals and the particular division.

 

[turtleface]

at the firm I'm at its generally considered automatic up to senior manager, as long as you meet their minimum performance standards. The step to partner is far from guaranteed.

like Seremify said, theres a spectrum.

Its not just the actual pay u get in your level, you are ranked within your level and this determines the relative pay. I'd could as far as to say a low ranking Senior Accountant could be on the same (if not less) than a high ranking Junior Accountant etc.

 

[seremify007]

at the firm I'm at its generally considered automatic up to senior manager, as long as you meet their minimum performance standards. The step to partner is far from guaranteed.

I'm not sure what firm you were at, but for us, to reach even Senior Accountant requires you to meet certain performance measures. However as an undergrad, it's possible to be a senior before you even graduate.

Its not just the actual pay u get in your level, you are ranked within your level and this determines the relative pay. I'd could as far as to say a low ranking Senior Accountant could be on the same (if not less) than a high ranking Junior Accountant etc.

I'd say that example is pushing it because as a junior accountant, you don't have any qualification at all (ie. undergraduate/trainee) so it's pretty difficult to be earning more than a senior accountant (ie. someone who has finished CA and is incharging jobs)... but the point you make is correct. Within each level, there are variances in pay... but I think at the very junior/new roles in the firm (ie. undergrad/grad), there isn't a variance in salary.

 

[Minai]

At EY, salaries are reviewed yearly (and performance is reviewed bi-annually) - this means that at all levels from Grad to Senior Manager, salary increases (and promotions) are linked to performance. I'm sure this is roughly the same at all Big4.

 

[Meads]

Well in regards to graduate positions specifically, your pay package is NOT going to be reliant on your performance review.

For the first 12-18 months you are going to be on level par with the other graduates, getting the same payrise. Which in all honesty is going to be a) a CPI raise, or b) a raise to simply get you above what the next years graduates will be paid.

The only discriminator between you and your peers will be whether you have a double degree or not. Double degree grads get a little bit more for obvious reasons.

After graduating as a graduate, that is when your pay rises start to get interesting.

 

[turtleface]

For the first 12-18 months you are going to be on level par with the other graduates, getting the same payrise. Which in all honesty is going to be a) a CPI raise, or b) a raise to simply get you above what the next years graduates will be paid.

The only discriminator between you and your peers will be whether you have a double degree or not. Double degree grads get a little bit more for obvious reasons.

Really? EY must work differently from the firm I was at. After all the vacs got their offers, everyone got the same starting salary regardless of single, double or masters.

Why is it that at your place double degree grads get more? I'm unsure what the obvious reasons are lol. Maybe its how tax works, it could be different from audit.

And how come you don't get a pay rise until after 12-18 months? In audit you usually get 2 promotions by the 18 month stage = a 15K or so rise from graduate salary.

Are you sure what you said applies to audit too? Cause audit has much more levels than tax, which is often just Consultant then Senior then Manager whereas in Audit theres Acc1, Acc2 (intermediate), SA1, SA2, AM1, AM2 possible a AM3 and then Manager, all with diffferent pay scales.

I'm pretty sure that noone gets grad salary + CPI after 12-18 months, otherwise everyone would try and get into co-ops and cadetships since they start at a higher level.

 

[seremify007]

I'm also thinking it's to do with what division you're in rather than the double degree factor.

Btw that $15k rise- isn't that when you've been promoted to senior (which usually means you've got your CA- but not always.)

 

[Meads]

Really? EY must work differently from the firm I was at. After all the vacs got their offers, everyone got the same starting salary regardless of single, double or masters.

Why is it that at your place double degree grads get more? I'm unsure what the obvious reasons are lol. Maybe its how tax works, it could be different from audit.

And how come you don't get a pay rise until after 12-18 months? In audit you usually get 2 promotions by the 18 month stage = a 15K or so rise from graduate salary.

Are you sure what you said applies to audit too? Cause audit has much more levels than tax, which is often just Consultant then Senior then Manager whereas in Audit theres Acc1, Acc2 (intermediate), SA1, SA2, AM1, AM2 possible a AM3 and then Manager, all with diffferent pay scales.

I'm pretty sure that noone gets grad salary + CPI after 12-18 months, otherwise everyone would try and get into co-ops and cadetships since they start at a higher level.

Well a double degree has always been more 'valued' pay wise than a single degree, that is just the way it is. The fact that you are paying more fees and what not. This is from a tax perspective yes, but I would not think many double degree grads would go into audit anyway.

I did not say you dont get a payrise until 12-18 months. I said the payrises would be the same until then.

I am talking about being a graduate here, not being a senior or a manager. Whilst a grad you will not be differentiated from the rest of the grads.

Seremify it is not group based, it is double degree based.

 

[turtleface]

Ah sorry I misunderstood about the no pay rises bit.

As for double degrees, that makes sense, the firms have to help us students out with the extra 2 years of HECS/FEES accrued. About 14K+ ain't it compared to a single degree...nasty.

 

[seremify007]

Hmm maybe this is one of the questions we should ask human capital I'm pretty sure there's no standard rule.

 

[Meads]

Hmm maybe this is one of the questions we should ask human capital I'm pretty sure there's no standard rule.

Dont you agree that double degree's are worth more than singles? At a starting level anyway? According to the info I got grads at PwC with doubles get a little more than those with singles?

I mean I know that in the long term it is unfair to say that someone with a double degree is worth more than someone with a single. But when you have a HECS debt, being payed more for spending more only seems logical.

Discuss! lol.

 

[seremify007]

TBH the only people I know who have doubles, are people doing tax- and tax has always had a higher salary than audit for newstarters hasn't it? So really.. it's difficult to say. But I know people with Honours receive the same as those without (at grad level)... but then Honours vs. Double Degree is of course a much bigger comparison.

Btw I'm not saying double degrees are worth less- just that I would've expected a double degree increases your chance of getting a higher paid job, but wouldn't necessarily increase your salary over those who didn't have it. Maybe someone from HR can post here and tell us the answer

EDIT: Also we must take into account what the multiple degrees are- not everything is relevant. For the purposes of this topic though, I think it's safe to assume we're talking Comm/Law... but then, at least IMO from an audit perspective, Comm/Law isn't going to speed up the process of promoting a Grad to a Senior.

 

[turtleface]

I dunno if you find it like this as well at PwC, but from what I've seen when you start working, your degree becomes irrelevant. Nobody really knows who has what degree.

I think at bigger places theres much more equality and standardisation. At a smaller joint I think maybe the directors might care whether you have honours, or a double degree etc. but I think this is largely irrelevant at a big firm once you are beyond the initial recruitment stage.

As for the salary differential, I have heard of at least one case where double degree grads get (about $2500 or so) more in their first year, and that was in KordaMentha a few years ago, but I think it is irrelevant in audit for most big 4

 

[seremify007]

I dunno if you find it like this as well at PwC, but from what I've seen when you start working, your degree becomes irrelevant. Nobody really knows who has what degree.

That's what I think anyway- unless you got the job as a lateral recruit (ie. degree/specialisation in a particular field such as Engineering). I also think in the long run, it's your post-grad qualifications which make the difference. But then this topic (I think) is talking more short-term initial salaries upon graduation from uni.