Heil Hitler (2 Viewers)

[John The Great]

It really is unbelievable that so many people wish to comment on issues that they have no reliable or accurate conception of. Unfortunately in contemporary society, with the idea of rights, everybody believes they can comment on and in particular criticise peoples and events without any formal knowledge in the area. This thread has been an example.
Every comment here has been terrible, with no formal knowledge of the nazi ideology that they so vehemently criticise, or of the individual being Hitler. The only comment that is even slightly credible is Ryken's comment with his mention of Mein Kampf. Being perhaps the only person here, with the possible exception of Ryken, to have read Mein Kampf, it is appalling to read these comments saying the Nazis had no justification for their acts. That these acts were only formed at the time, with no planning, or formal ideology behind them. The Nazi ideology as formulated by Hitler, was an incredible ideology, its rapid success is evidence of this. For those of you who have criticised Hitler's genius, or his ability to understand politics and social predicaments, perhaps you should read Mein Kampf. This man knew exactly how politics worked, and understood the people, and most importantly, the German people. He undertsood the failings of social democracy, of parliment, and of the Bourgeoisie's social relationships. So his intelligence cant be criticised, he was without doubt a genius under our current definition.
Some limited individuals have also said his work makes no sense. Perhaps it is their intelligence, or lack there of, that makes them incapable of making sense of his work. His work makes sense, just as all other great works have. The ridiculous defamation of him and his work is entirely unjustified and merely media taboo. The only source of misunderstanding of his work comes from translation. By the way, to he who wrote Hitler was deffinately "fucked in the head", what led you to this conclusion? For if Hitler is to be considered fucked in the head, then so are all great men, such as Socrates, Aristotle, Alexander, Caesar, Jesus, Napoleon and so on.
Then people say that Hitler was evil. That Hitler was wrong. That the holocaust was wrong. Well, all these comments do, is make it unambiguous to the educated that you have never read any philosophy, or theology. For one can not say that Hitler was wrong, in fact Hitler was good according to Aristotle's ethics. Nietzsche certainly would have viewed him highly, with his overman like ability, and his diregarding of slave mentality, which you who have commented here all suffer under. The Final Solution, was necessary for the survival and prosperity of Germany. That involved not just the Aryan race, but the christian religion. Now as all of you who have read St. Augustine's works City of God, or Confessions would know, violence transcends ethics when required to defend ones faith. Thus, one can not say that Hitler was bad as he ordered the defence of Germany, and its culture.
So before criticising this great individual any longer without justification, you should learn the area better and forget the slave mentality of the contemporary media with its taboo. As Hitler wrote, "sucess is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong", and Hitler was certainly successful, or perhaps as Virgil wrote, "fortune favours the bold".

 

[John The Great]

"in bio, that's called 'artificial selection', because it's controlled breeding" it would appear as if though you thus disagree with the statement that the killing of one individual by another is natural selection as expounded by Darwin and his subsequent followers. How then do you distinguish between what is natural and what isnt? Is a stronger tiger killing a weaker tiger natural selection? Is a stronger shark killing a weaker shark natural selection? Is a stronger man, killing a weaker man, not therefore natural selection. The act has taken place under natural circumstances. Thus, yes the holocaust and war, are viewed as natural selection. Perhaps one would benefit from clarifying their definition of natural before commenting on what is and isnt natural.

 

[John The Great]

"Complete economic ruin handed him power. It's the economy, stupid. It's not exactly innovative policy to plan a war in order to kick-start the economy. WW1 taught everyone lessons, he wasn't unique in realising that if the homefront starves, the warfront suffers."
Perhaps before being so rash to judge others Iron you should educate yourself in the area. Economic ruin handed him power? How exactly is one handed power of a nation? Particularly an Austrian Bourgeois, becoming the Fuhrer of the Third Reich, following the disgracing of germany with the Treaty of Versailles. No! One is not handed power. One attains power through his own ability and ambition. Perhaps you should read Nietzsche's works, he thoroughly discusses the will to power.
By the way, Hitler's ideology was not centered around the economy. So his war was not planned to kick start the economy! Rather to defend the German culture from annihilation at the hands of inferior races.
So dont be so rash to label others, before first labelling yourself appropriately.

 

[John The Great]

haleeKate's simplistic example should be ignored by all. The Holocaust was nothing like that. In case one has not realised anti semitism was prominent in Europe at the time. In fact since Josephus and the Revolt, anti semitism had been prominent in Europe. Martin Luther, among the greatest reformers, wrote pamphlets for the Papacy condeming the Jews, and calling for, "the burning of Synagogues, the destruction of jewish property and the rounding up of jews in stables". Protestants went on to flourish in Germany, and Catholicism continued to prosper throughout Europe, so the anti semitism was there all along, Hitler just allowed for its full potential to be realised. It was in no way, trying to please Hitler without their consent, these people wished for the deaths of Jews as well.

 

[John The Great]

rama v may be the most unqualified person here to comment on this issue. As their comments illustrate, they are a pathetic production of the media with no concept of the Third Reich, Hitler or National Socialism.

"I would blame the weakness of his enemies as well as the turmoil at the time" This is to admit to the tremendous power and ambition of Hitler. That he towered above his peers and rivals, and as such, people can look back 70 years later and say it was 'the weakness of his enemies'!

"though the Nazi's period in power did a lot of good things for Germany(in terms of infrastructure especially) the treatment of minority groups and the terrible opression cannot be ignored or justified at all, so it really overshadows any good policies that Hitler did bring in..." Can not be ignored or justified! Of course it cant be ignored, that would be absurd to ignore such an event. Yet not justified, that is almost as absurd! It was certainly justified! Have you read St. Augustine? Have you read any philosophy, such as Nietzsche, or Aristotle in particular? Have you even read Mein Kampf, the ideology of the man and party you so passionately criticise? Obviously not with such a statement! It was defending Germany. It was defending German culture, German religion. Germany, a nation that had such a proud history filled with glorious men and achievements. Hitler was defending this! So, if anything these are viewed among his 'good' policies. Of course, one could argue that it is not 'right' to disregard a mans 'good' achievements due to some undesirable achievements as well.
Other examples of this persons incompetence include statments such as, "Even the start of the war struck him by complete surprise"! Really! So Hitler was surprised when the German commandos he sent to attack the German station in Polish uniforms, so as to have justification for invading Poland the next day, resulting in his decleration of war on Poland, his subsequent invasion, and the decleration of war on germany, by Britain and France which they had threatened to do previously if he invaded poland? That does seem very absurd.
"In fact the Allies didnt want to assasinate Hitler, and one of teh reasons was because he was such a poor commander in chief..." So all those plans created by British intelligence under Churchill, and other such allied governments were not intended to be used. That does seem odd, one would even say false. Where you get your information is interesting, as that statement is ridiculous!
"Hitler didnt have great poltical abilites IMO. He was put into power because of a million other reasons like the economic condition of Germany combined with the politcal manoeuvring of the conservative elite who handed over power to him in 1933. At its peak the Nazi Party only had 37% of the vote." Of course hitler had great political abilities. To become the first fuhrer of the third reich one must have great political abilties. he was voted into power by the german people, the same way leaders are today in democracies. Of course the economic condition has an influence in ALL elections, such as the recent federal election and interest rates. However, Hitler's success was due to far more than economics. It was actually the prolaterians that ultimately allowed Hitler power. However Hitler was responsible for his final achievement of power in 1933. If one studied closer they would realise that Hitler was responsible for making his own ambition become reality. At the peak is also innacurate. In 1933 the nazi's had 37%, however that is NOT their peak. Their peak is around 1939, by which time the figures would have been very high for the Nazi's, and if needed they would have been voted in again with ease.
"Perhaps it was only because he was a good orator that people voted foor him, because his speeches made no sense; he promised everyone everything and the only reason people listened was because they had got sick of listening to the Weimar governments who had no power to do anything because of their flawed constitution." It was not only because he was a good orator, but that was the ultimate factor in his success. Perhaps if you read Mein Kampf you would understand why that was. yet his sppeches made sense. Once again it is your inability to understand, not his inability to communicate. He did not promise 'everyone' 'everything', however he did promise the majority a better existence, and he was true to his words. Finally, it was not the only reason people listened to him, due to their being tired of the Weimar republic. The people generally hated the Republic, as discussed in Mein Kampf, as it did not care for Germany, but only for itself. However Hitler cared for germany, and its people, and that is why he was voted in. if it was as rama claims only due to the people being sick of the republic, than anyone who attempted to gain power at the time could have, but they didnt. Hitler achieved power, because he was a genius with insatiable ambition and a love for Germany.

 

[John The Great]

"ppl who think they understand hitler's mindset are only fooling themselves" as written by Gordo.
people who say things such as this are only admitting to be cowards with a very limited understanding of such ideology. To use such a statement to hide behind, so as to excuse yourself from not understanding Hitler, is quite despicable.

 

[klh]

well under our ideology, we see it as wrong to take antoher human life under any circumstances, and in this instance of racial discrimination, further it thus our criticisms.

you say that he understood the people? not quite, if he really understood them he wouldnt have called the otehr nazis to demolish germany's infrastructure when he knew he was losing the war. he was nt for the poeple, he just used them by persuasion.

dude, you should get some sleep, that pretty early in the morning for some of your replies...

 

[xeuyrawp]

"ppl who think they understand hitler's mindset are only fooling themselves" as written by Gordo.
people who say things such as this are only admitting to be cowards with a very limited understanding of such ideology. To use such a statement to hide behind, so as to excuse yourself from not understanding Hitler, is quite despicable.

You realise people see a huge, unparagraphed chunk of text, and they just skip it?

 

[studynoob]

well ill be a different story if hitler deafeated the soviet union i mean the nazis were sooo close all they had to do was to capture stalingrad and recapture moscow then then the soviets wouldve fell it was mostly the soviets that defeated the germans and pushed them back until dday 1944!

 

[studynoob]

wait a minute it wouldnt make a difference the americans developed the h-bomb and planned to bomb germany only that the war in europe has ended so they used it on the japs where the war was still raging!!! silly me

 

[Silver Persian]

Trotsky is hotter than Hitler

 

[sunjet]

Fucking neo nazi.
John, what makes you different to comment on it? Did you read Mein Kampf? Shit.. along with thousands of others.
This is a HSC course and we don't actually study Hitler in detail like Speer/Leni, however we recognise his strong personality and political abilities, which allowed him to come to power.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

It really is unbelievable that so many people wish to comment on issues that they have no reliable or accurate conception of. Unfortunately in contemporary society, with the idea of rights, everybody believes they can comment on and in particular criticise peoples and events without any formal knowledge in the area. This thread has been an example.
Every comment here has been terrible, with no formal knowledge of the nazi ideology that they so vehemently criticise, or of the individual being Hitler. The only comment that is even slightly credible is Ryken's comment with his mention of Mein Kampf. Being perhaps the only person here, with the possible exception of Ryken, to have read Mein Kampf, it is appalling to read these comments saying the Nazis had no justification for their acts. That these acts were only formed at the time, with no planning, or formal ideology behind them. The Nazi ideology as formulated by Hitler, was an incredible ideology, its rapid success is evidence of this. For those of you who have criticised Hitler's genius, or his ability to understand politics and social predicaments, perhaps you should read Mein Kampf. This man knew exactly how politics worked, and understood the people, and most importantly, the German people. He undertsood the failings of social democracy, of parliment, and of the Bourgeoisie's social relationships. So his intelligence cant be criticised, he was without doubt a genius under our current definition.
Some limited individuals have also said his work makes no sense. Perhaps it is their intelligence, or lack there of, that makes them incapable of making sense of his work. His work makes sense, just as all other great works have. The ridiculous defamation of him and his work is entirely unjustified and merely media taboo. The only source of misunderstanding of his work comes from translation. By the way, to he who wrote Hitler was deffinately "fucked in the head", what led you to this conclusion? For if Hitler is to be considered fucked in the head, then so are all great men, such as Socrates, Aristotle, Alexander, Caesar, Jesus, Napoleon and so on.
Then people say that Hitler was evil. That Hitler was wrong. That the holocaust was wrong. Well, all these comments do, is make it unambiguous to the educated that you have never read any philosophy, or theology. For one can not say that Hitler was wrong, in fact Hitler was good according to Aristotle's ethics. Nietzsche certainly would have viewed him highly, with his overman like ability, and his diregarding of slave mentality, which you who have commented here all suffer under. The Final Solution, was necessary for the survival and prosperity of Germany. That involved not just the Aryan race, but the christian religion. Now as all of you who have read St. Augustine's works City of God, or Confessions would know, violence transcends ethics when required to defend ones faith. Thus, one can not say that Hitler was bad as he ordered the defence of Germany, and its culture.
So before criticising this great individual any longer without justification, you should learn the area better and forget the slave mentality of the contemporary media with its taboo. As Hitler wrote, "sucess is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong", and Hitler was certainly successful, or perhaps as Virgil wrote, "fortune favours the bold".

He killed millions of Jews without cause. That is morally wrong under any credible normative ethical theory.

And to say "Nietzsche would have been proud" or St Augustine said "violence transcends ethics when required to defend ones faith" does not support your argument (fallacy of appealling to authority). Utter rubbish. If you're a philosopher, as you seem to suggest, you should know better.

 

[King of Helview]

Klh you stated that under OUR ideology we view Hitler as bad.

If we looked at everything through OUR ideology we could never understand what truely went on.

As you are in the history section I assume you know what context is.

In the context of Germany at the time it was morally right to order the extermination of the jews as they were a serious threat.

I know that you will not believe me/not care about context but I shall give you some reasons

After WWI a group of Jews led a revolution in Germany to implement Communism in Germany. This wasnt a very friendly act as Communism was greatly feared by the Germans. This revolt built up tensions with Germans towards the Jewish religion.

Add to this the writings of German philosopher Frederic Nietchzse and theologian Martin Luther there was a definite benchmark so to speak for justification against the Jews.

As John the Great said St. Augustine of Hippo believed that violence could transcend ethics if it was in faith. Adolf Hitler was a religious man and couldnt stand the Jews draining faith. In the words of Hitler himself "We have been given this unique oppurtunity by our Creator". This was in regards to setting the wrongs of the past, ie. the Jews providence, nay, survival.

I will leave you with two quotes from Adolf that may at least change a small portion of your outlook towards him:

"Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong"

"The victor will never be asked if he told the truth"

If, as has been explored beforehand, Hitler had won we would have been fed lies about Churchill, Stalin etc, just like we are now fed with lies against Hitler.

I believe there are two sides to his story and that the truth lies somewhere in the middle

Thought I was done? Not quite, here is one last tidbit

When the war was over Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt had all met together to dine. One of the men asked a question for the other two along the lines of "What will history say of us?" To this Winston replied

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it"

And so he did and from which we get a rather biased and chewed up story of WWII

 

[King of Helview]

That can be disputed

The figures are estimated between 10 million to 60 million and no confirmed amount has been released, is thought to be released or even known.

Also, many of the deaths were indirectly related to Stalins orders as people died from famines and malnourishment

It also must be considered that the Soviet Union was much, much larger in population than Germany (Although not all those killed were from Germany)

But i digress

 

[John The Great]

You realise people see a huge, unparagraphed chunk of text, and they just skip it?

Is that what you do? That really is pathetic if that is the case. You will not proceed far at all, if you find it difficult to read large sections of text at a time, and then claim that PEOPLE in general also conform to your behaviour. By the way, if you bothered to read the text, you would realise that there are indeed paragraphs present. One does not have to leave a large space before a new paragraph.

 

[John The Great]

well under our ideology, we see it as wrong to take antoher human life under any circumstances, and in this instance of racial discrimination, further it thus our criticisms.

you say that he understood the people? not quite, if he really understood them he wouldnt have called the otehr nazis to demolish germany's infrastructure when he knew he was losing the war. he was nt for the poeple, he just used them by persuasion.

dude, you should get some sleep, that pretty early in the morning for some of your replies...

well, what is OUR ideology? who exactly is OUR? If you are refering to christianity, and the western ethical system, then NO we dont see it as wrong under ANY circumstances. Have you read any theology, or even the bible? Do you know what constitutes our ethical system? Western ethics are deriven largely from the works of the Ancient Greek philosophers, such as Aristotle, Plato etc. So dont claim that what you believe to be ethical with your limited knowledge is indeed correct. Not to mention, racial discrimination particularly when it corrolates with religious discrimination is most certainly a justification under our traditional ethics and church. You have ignored the context entirely. You can not believe your limited education, with your slave mentality allows you to understand the context of christianity in the early twentieth century and then judge it with your media deriven thought.

Yes he did understand the people. Your comment on destroying infrastructure has nothing to do with understanding the people. It has to do with understanding war. You should read Clausewitz among others to understand the reasoning behind such acts. He did understand the people, and he was for the people, hence National Socialism, hence his entire ideology, and his existence. Read Mein Kampf, before criticising a man you know little to nothing about. To quote Dylan, "dont criticise what you cant understand".

 

[John The Great]

well ill be a different story if hitler deafeated the soviet union i mean the nazis were sooo close all they had to do was to capture stalingrad and recapture moscow then then the soviets wouldve fell it was mostly the soviets that defeated the germans and pushed them back until dday 1944!

You mention recapturing Moscow, however the Nazi's never captured it to begin with, so they weren't attempting to recapture it. It was deffinately the Soviets that had the biggest impact upon the Germans defeat, but not through any particular superiority. Rather, weather and numbers, along with of course, one front.

 

[John The Great]

Fucking neo nazi.
John, what makes you different to comment on it? Did you read Mein Kampf? Shit.. along with thousands of others.
This is a HSC course and we don't actually study Hitler in detail like Speer/Leni, however we recognise his strong personality and political abilities, which allowed him to come to power.

Your rash accusation is rather unfounded. I have not really promoted the nazi's as such, rather defended them from unfounded criticisms. Of course, i expected nothing less from such people.
What makes me different to comment on it? Well, perhaps the fact that i am not criticising these people. The fact, that i am educated in the area, and have an understanding of the context and issues, unlike all you others. The fact that i dont claim that Hitler and the Nazi's were WRONG and EVIL when i havent read any philosophy to substantiate or justify such claims. Dont criticise what you cant understand. Yes i DID read Mein Kampf, along with numerous other influential and sophisticated books and i continue to. Did you read Harry Potter?
You are clearly a mentally incapable individual with a statement, shit....along with thousands of others.
If you dont actually study Hitler in detail, and thus have no formal knowledge in the area then dont comment on him, and particularly dont criticise him. As for recognising his strong political abilities and personality, many people here have entirely ignored, or even rejected these.
Thus once again, dont criticise what you cant understand.

 

[sunjet]

Such people?
You make me sick.
Criticise what I don't understand? Of course I don't know everything, I know what's in the HSC course, I don't go around promoting Nazism and worshipping Hitler like you.
I'm taking it you know everything about Hitler and Nazism to comment on him. Moron.