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highest uai with no band 6's (1 Viewer)

CHUDYMASTER

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Originally posted by Lazarus


Sure, your friend did great compared to everyone who takes Industrial Technology. But the vast majority of students who take IT are not 'academically able' and tend not to do well overall in their courses. If you slot your friend's IT performance into a 'more able' candidature, such as that of physics or chemistry, it suddenly doesn't look quite as good.

Okay... I'm happy to call it quits now. :p
Ok, tell me how they judge which course contains more "academically able" students when people do a variety of different subjects?! You can't simply judge a course based on how well MOST people tend to go in their other subjects when everyone is different. - THIS is why I assumed UAC was simply saying "Okay, Industrial Tech has crappy people, so let's scale em down no matter how well they go and physics people - yeah they're all right, let's give 'em a hand" :chainsaw:

This debate is going no where, it's as though you're not heeding my message (or perhaps the other way around...or both.) Never the less, I stick by my belief that if you're an academically able student whichever course you pick, you're better off picking the "better" subjects I've mentioned time and time again because the sad truth is- other courses just don't cut it. :mad:

Ok another example I just thought of - RURAL/regional students tend to get crappy UAIs, not cuz their dumb but because there's a lack of teaching experience, meaning they can't teach the "harder", "better" subjects. Ergo, their UAIs suffer.

Anyways, if you want you can reply and continue this debate, otherwise I'll continue my crusade to convert all BoS users into nerds. :argue: :apig:
 

Lazarus

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Originally posted by CHUDYMASTER
Ok, tell me how they judge which course contains more "academically able" students when people do a variety of different subjects?! You can't simply judge a course based on how well MOST people tend to go in their other subjects when everyone is different.
You can, and they do.

I am happy to give you the technical explanation, but if you haven't done any maths beyond high school you won't be able to follow it... I didn't understand it until I'd done first-year uni maths courses (linear algebra -> matrices and eigenvectors).

Put it this way. The raw marks of all courses are standardised to have a common mean, SD and top mark. Then, all the marks of every student are considered simultaneously, and a set of target scaled means is calculated. It's like solving a huge set of simultaneous equations, with almost 100 equations and almost 100 unknowns in each one - except it's solved by inverting a matrix (and hence a unique solution is found). The raw marks are then transformed into scaled marks using the loadings calculated from the matrix.

There is no subjectivity... no judges sitting around tables deliberating... it's all done mathematically. All of it is objective.

Originally posted by CHUDYMASTER
Ok another example I just thought of - RURAL/regional students tend to get crappy UAIs, not cuz their dumb but because there's a lack of teaching experience, meaning they can't teach the "harder", "better" subjects. Ergo, their UAIs suffer.
Not quite sure where you're going with this... you're right. Rural students are disadvantaged. It's unfortunate for them. The scaling system hardly chooses teachers though. And I think most universities have access schemes available for these students anyway. But I'm sure improvements could be made here (somehow?) if that's what you were getting at.
 

CHUDYMASTER

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No, what I'm getting at by that is that high UAIs are unobtainable by your average rural folk because they don't have access to high-scaled courses. As a result, their marks may be high in courses like general maths or standard english, but it just won't be enough for medicine or law or whatever (perhaps even with ACCESS scheme, that's not really the focus of my message here)
 

Lazarus

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Hmm... I see your point.

Do you have data on the UAIs of rural/regional students?
 

CHUDYMASTER

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I could only provide you with what I was told by one such person (you could validate this by looking up statistics - if the BOS/UAC regime ever releases such figures...capitalist pigs they are):

He got 72.25 doing general maths, adv eng, IPT, physics, sdd. (all band 5s from memory)

EDIT: Oops, said band 6's instead of 5's
 

Lazarus

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I don't believe that they release those statistics... and one person really isn't enough.

But I agree that you could potentially prove your argument if such data were ever to be made available.

I'll look into it if I get the chance.
 

CHUDYMASTER

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Excellent. By this, I take it I won the debate!? MUA HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW!

Kiss my chudy.
 

Minai

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lol, u got owned in the scaling/UAI debate - thats obvious
but yeah, u have a point with the rural students...but then again, public schools are at a disadvantage to private schools for similar reasons..its just a result of living in an indiviualistic society
 

CHUDYMASTER

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Originally posted by Minai
lol, u got owned in the scaling/UAI debate - thats obvious
but yeah, u have a point with the rural students...but then again, public schools are at a disadvantage to private schools for similar reasons..its just a result of living in an indiviualistic society
You don't seem to understand, the rural folk argument was part of the scaling/UAI debate...blah, never mind (you guys (BoS) are probably in on the conspiracy with the rest of those capitalist scum...)
 

fi_babezy

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Silent round of applause
 
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Rahul

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Originally posted by CHUDYMASTER
Rahul, you should've done 2/3 U maths...woulda taken you so much further.
yeh, in hindsight i suppose. but at the time it seemed like a good idea :D. and even though my marks werent great, they were ok for how much work i put in.
Originally posted by iambored
this is why what is shown in the paper (band 6 names) are not a true indication of how well a school goes. because hsc marks mean nothing, uai is everything, and u got a great uai without your name in the paper

i know someone who got 91, and 89
cheers! :)
couple of other guys from my school got 91 and 93[with a 90]
maybe they should list schools with the average uai from their students.
 

Minai

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Originally posted by CHUDYMASTER
blah, never mind (you guys (BoS) are probably in on the conspiracy with the rest of those capitalist scum...)
yes..of course..
we live in a capitalist/individualistic society
 

fi_babezy

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There is truth, and to that untruth

I declare there to be no winner here J. No argument is both 100% accurate, or leaves no room for further interpretation. Heeding Heisenburgs uncertainty principles. It is impossible to view any system objectively; since the observer is part of the observationwhat can we conclude from this, men? /raises eyebrow/

This squabble of ideologies here is an immaculate attempt at the age-old saga of is, is not, it could go on forever. It is impossible for anybody to win hands down (if this is about winning~~Yes sorry Mr Chuddy, and Lazarus) Ask yourselves, has this become a struggle for power, or are all parties working to locate a possible negative indenture within this system. Now wouldnt the second approach be the best for everybody.


(chudymaster) No, what I'm getting at by that is that high UAIs are unobtainable by your average rural folk because they don't have access to high-scaled courses. As a result, their marks may be high in courses like general maths or standard english, but it just won't be enough for medicine or law or whatever (perhaps even with ACCESS scheme, that's not really the focus of my message here)

Unfortunately your argument is dissuaded by your generalisation regarding rural folk. You know I come from a rural area (consider me a primary source and I dont expect to be challenged on this matter). Your depreciative use of the stereotypical term folk solidifies the fact that you are under a vast misconception. Certainly, the deduction of a collectively, lower performance from rural HSC students is undoubtedly true. In acknowledging that, you must weigh in the appropriate factors (and the correct ones). First and foremost you must realise that rural students do in theory have access to all courses. If the education system did not make such allowances it would be at mercy of legal missionary sharks (I vant your money.$sue, $sue, $sue) - Implying that rural students do not have access to all courses is a heavy accusation- one that is unpalatability false. For we have such UAI saviours as- Distance Education, courses may run at Tafe and I have even heard of students doing courses independently outside of school (With their marks relying solely on HSC performance). As unfair/intractable as some of these options sound, you have to see that it is still possible to do any course. Your argument faltered moreover when you went on to state,

As a result, their marks may be high in courses like general maths or standard English

Im sure all rural students can join in at laugh at this subliminal implication. Are we all to now believe that rural students do not have advanced classes, or even extension classes? Is it me, or did I just dream that Im doing advanced English and mathematics next yr? If I did then I must certainly of been hallucinating when I bought my preliminary book for extension maths. Chuddy my friend you have accidentally enraged me on this subject :)P) and now I must bring you down bit by bit by part by part (lol, jk). I know I over emphasised the last part (a lot ;) ), but you need to realise that advanced classes are run in rural schools. That, in principle there is no reason why you cannot get a high UAI as a rural student.

Secondly, onto your point about medicine/law- would you not want your doctors to be competent in English and maths? Imagine the repercussions of such incompetency in these areas- all those complaints you hear about insurance premiums hiking up, would be just a scratch on the surface. If such allowances were made, that scratch could be likened to a small bump in the road at the foot of Mt. Everest. Standard English teachers mark their work more easily, dont they? Now if city people are expected to take advanced courses for eng and maths, then its only fair to expect the same from everybody.

On the flip side of the coin, Lazarus, you may have the figures to provide confirmation. Using BoS statistics from the recent UAI epidemic across the forum. How many BoS users live in Sydney (majority??) I really dont know, though I can fairly deduce that the bulk of students who submitted their marks to the BoS site were from non-rural areas. What does this indicate? It shows that users of this site are of a very high calibre, and also many come from selective/private schools. There arent many of the latter schools in rural areas. Could this add into the performance equation? I havent a clue what the student morale for excelling is like in selective/private city schools (which is fair to use for comparison purposes here, considering the assumed BoS clientele). It is rather safe to presume that in being the type of a school that seeks the attendance of capable and intelligent individuals, these schools will see a better performance all round. Why? Because a higher HSC standards set precedence, and the result: the rest of the student population feels even more compelled to live up to those expectations. Im not saying rural students dont have expectations, Im saying there just isnt as many precedents in this environment to feed off. How could such a strange ideology be true???? James Ruse, heard of it?..I never really been to Sydney. Yet I still knew of the name James Ruse and its stigma of academically being one of the best schools long before I ever visited this site.

That aside, there is numerous assistance schemes for rural students; for certain courses an extra 5 UAI points may be added; special cut offs for rural students; scholarships specifically for rural students.


*Yawns loudly*
*Procrastination meltdown*
*Far too young for such rambling thoughts*
*take pity on meIm only a youngn and if you must say something..say it nicely*

//fi_babezy goes for BoS record//
//shortest post in history//
 
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Beanie

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With no band 6's, it is most likely that you would get about 90-93. I got 4 band 6's; three 90's and one 91, and i got 94.
 

Newbie

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you got like band 3 for your other subject didnt you
 

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