Homosexuality in Australia (4 Viewers)

[dagwoman]

And here are some personal experiences from children of gay parents:

Jim’s Story
"I never knew much about gay men. From my dad I’ve learned that gay people are just like all people. I like some of them and don’t like others. My likes and dislikes have little to do with their gayness and more to do with who they are. I can see that dad is happier and that’s what is most important. ……..I’ve learned not to be so judgemental about people who are different." (From COLAGE website. Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere www.colage.org)

Joshua’s Story
"I grew up in the gay community and it was never kept from me. I always was around gay and straight couples. It never seemed strange to me. It was my life. My mom’s sexuality of same sex attraction has not been imposed on me. I have been brought up as an individual, not a follower. My mother is a lesbian and I’m proud of her for not being afraid to show it. She’s been a great mother for the last fourteen years, and she’s always been there when I needed her. She has kept us both alive and well as the only source of money. She is my best friend. I don’t know exactly what I think about being the son of a lesbian, but I know I’m damn lucky to have a mum like mine." (From the COLAGE website. Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere www.colage.org)

 

[bshoc]

Admitting something evident to everyone but you is somehow a compromise? I've already given you evidence of happy, functional gay families, many pages ago, when I mentioned the Rainbow Babies and gave a link to a website about a project on gay families in the US. Whenever I make a claim I back it up. And we've already discussed the structure of the government and how the Marriage Amendment was passed.

http://www.glrl.org.au/issues/family.html

http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

"96 percent of all U.S. counties have at least one same-sex couple with children under 18 in the household, Census 2000 reveals. "
http://www.urban.org/publications/900626.html

http://www.family2000.org.uk/gay%20&%20lesbian%20families.htm

Want more?

How does this matter when the people of the US voted by something like margins of 4 to 1 in virtually every state now to ban civil unions and gay marriage? How does this matter that a government acting on popular support did the same thing here? Most of all learn about using non-biased sources, leftwing and gay lesbian rights sites dont mean anything to me, just lies and twisted facts.

Even the most bluest of blue democratic states, a state that never gave Bush a single EV, Wisconsin, voted to ban gay marriage by 60%, in most places the margins were like 85%

 

[Dougie]

do you honestly think that the only reason gays want to get married is so they can have fredom of sex?

 

[Dougie]

Yeah agenda scholarship at its finest, plenty of whacko lefties in academia, thats why there must be a habit of actually verifying scholars rather than just quoting random ones.

when your oh so brilliant current government decides to, then sure. But until they do, even these articles would stand credit in a court of law

It will destroy the current structure and turn it into a simple right to have sex, its not a radical conclusion, its a fact of life.

I just can’t believe you could be so hollow. You find ME some scholars who say that.

The world is overpopulated in places like India and China which practically house half of the world, here in the west there is underpopulation. Muslims do have something to do with the declining birthrate since they're mainting highly posative ones whilst generations of Europeans are cutting theirs in half.

and what’s wrong if they are growing and we aren’t. Are you scared of them cause it would change the current world. The world ALWAYS changes.

Well gay marraige is illigal to most of the world, heck some countries still execute gays, your point is moot.

and this is the reason it’s worth arguing, the fact that it’s not accepted and in mine and a lot of other people’s opinions it should be. In time, the world will change, and like you’ve said before, it may happen, but we’ll be dead so who cares.

Well I care, and plenty of other people do. Someone has to do the groundwork if future generations are to get equality.

 

[bshoc]

when your oh so brilliant current government decides to, then sure. But until they do, even these articles would stand credit in a court of law

Its got nothing to do with the government, mainly peer reviews, common percetption and so forth, for example the difference between a well credited historian like Hugh Trevor-Roper and someone like David Irving, both essentially historians, just one pushes agenda and twists facts and another doesen't, there's not question that pro-gay journals will push opinion that favors gays rather than fact, you'll never see anything objective in pro-gay journals, especially if that objectivity casts homosexuals in a negative light. And thats the problem with homosexuality, it never undergoes the burden of scrutiny due its fanatical like defense by leftist scholars, media etc. But the left is not the mainstream, people who want to legalise gay marriage, drugs etc. are out of touch with the regular population and thus get so few of these kinds of candidates through. Again, the proof is in the pudding.

I just can’t believe you could be so hollow. You find ME some scholars who say that.

You dont need scholars to show the blatantly obvious, by inserting gays into the equation you destroy much of the proper purpose of marriage, as well as ignore thousands of years of settled history.

and what’s wrong if they are growing and we aren’t. Are you scared of them cause it would change the current world. The world ALWAYS changes.

Well you see I have this thing called national pride, I identify with a certain set of values and a certain set of people, muslims aren't really compatible with western society as looking at any majority muslim country shows, especially with your kind of politics. For example as centre-right indavidual, I would have no problems with working with muslims to outlaw abortions, gays etc. irreguardless of whether they do it out of religion or not, would you?

and this is the reason it’s worth arguing, the fact that it’s not accepted and in mine and a lot of other people’s opinions it should be. In time, the world will change, and like you’ve said before, it may happen, but we’ll be dead so who cares.

Well I care, and plenty of other people do. Someone has to do the groundwork if future generations are to get equality.

Yeah well with your one or two Greens or Dem politicians that manage to get elected, keep fighting the good fight son lol Being a blatant minority with no prospects of achieving what you see as equality (most people see it as a violation of their values and natural law, and destruction of society btw) has made you delusional, something like that is too far left, and I mean almost falling off the left edge of the left wing, to be passed in societies like Australia or the USA. In countries where the centre is the left, like Sweden, is a different story, but I'm guessing they'll learn the lessons or pay the price.

 

[Silver Persian]

-Gay people aren't going to "have" children whether they're allowed to marry or not, so pointing to a declining birthrate is no reason to disallow gay marriage.

-Gay people already have the right to have sex, so if this is all we wanted, why would we be pursuing marriage/civil unions?

 

[dieburndie]

And here are some personal experiences from children of gay parents:

Jim’s Story
"I never knew much about gay men. From my dad I’ve learned that gay people are just like all people. I like some of them and don’t like others. My likes and dislikes have little to do with their gayness and more to do with who they are. I can see that dad is happier and that’s what is most important. ……..I’ve learned not to be so judgemental about people who are different." (From COLAGE website. Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere www.colage.org)

Joshua’s Story
"I grew up in the gay community and it was never kept from me. I always was around gay and straight couples. It never seemed strange to me. It was my life. My mom’s sexuality of same sex attraction has not been imposed on me. I have been brought up as an individual, not a follower. My mother is a lesbian and I’m proud of her for not being afraid to show it. She’s been a great mother for the last fourteen years, and she’s always been there when I needed her. She has kept us both alive and well as the only source of money. She is my best friend. I don’t know exactly what I think about being the son of a lesbian, but I know I’m damn lucky to have a mum like mine." (From the COLAGE website. Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere www.colage.org)

AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Dear jesus. Was your post meant to be really really funny? "My likes and dislikes have little to do with their gayness"
"My Mum's sexuality of same sex attraction has not been imposed on me"
"I don't exactly know what I think about being the son of a lesbian"
Stupid faggot kids. I hope they die from their AIDS.
Also the last few pages have been really boring and repetitive. Gay even.

 

[dagwoman]

I wasn't arguing that, I was arguing your claim that there's no such thing as gay families. Pay attention if you're going to have a debate.

You can't claim we don't back up our arguments and then reject the sources we give. 3 of those 4 sources I gave weren't in any way "gay lesbian rights sites".

And when was the last time you cited evidence of your pathetic attempt at an argument?

 

[dagwoman]

dieburndie, how dare you mock those kids. Those are 12, 13 year old kids who have to deal with the judgement that comes from being a child of a gay parent, and comments like that from you are the reason there need to be organisations like COLAGE. Obviously they weren't the most eloquent or subtle of testimonials, but I was merely highlighting to bshoc that there are in fact happy, healthy children of gay parents.

 

[Dougie]

Its got nothing to do with the government, mainly peer reviews, common percetption and so forth, for example the difference between a well credited historian like Hugh Trevor-Roper and someone like David Irving, both essentially historians, just one pushes agenda and twists facts and another doesen't, there's not question that pro-gay journals will push opinion that favors gays rather than fact, you'll never see anything objective in pro-gay journals, especially if that objectivity casts homosexuals in a negative light. And thats the problem with homosexuality, it never undergoes the burden of scrutiny due its fanatical like defense by leftist scholars, media etc. But the left is not the mainstream, people who want to legalise gay marriage, drugs etc. are out of touch with the regular population and thus get so few of these kinds of candidates through. Again, the proof is in the pudding.

it sounds like you urself will only ever accept articles, etc that only come from a source that will back up your own ideas, same as me. I doubt there is anyone out there who could write a COMPLETELY neutral argument. But don’t say it doesn’t undergo scrutiny. Aside from your comments (best scrutiny it’s probably ever been through!), I disagree with many things that gays say, the same I disagree with what other people say. Doesn’t matter if they are or not.

You dont need scholars to show the blatantly obvious, by inserting gays into the equation you destroy much of the proper purpose of marriage, as well as ignore thousands of years of settled history.

This is the one I think you are completely wrong with. I’m happy to accept you views on everything else, but to say that gays couldn’t have a proper family, couldn’t have a proper relationship, couldn’t support children, only want free sex… it’s almost inhumane. The proof is out there that you’re wrong, show me something saying all they want is sex and I’ll consider it. Of course you need scholars to back up what you say, or stop asking us too. What do you think is the proper purpose of marriage?

Well you see I have this thing called national pride, I identify with a certain set of values and a certain set of people, muslims aren't really compatible with western society as looking at any majority muslim country shows, especially with your kind of politics. For example as centre-right indavidual, I would have no problems with working with muslims to outlaw abortions, gays etc. irreguardless of whether they do it out of religion or not, would you?

of course I have national pride. I also have pride in humanity though.

Yeah well with your one or two Greens or Dem politicians that manage to get elected, keep fighting the good fight son lol Being a blatant minority with no prospects of achieving what you see as equality (most people see it as a violation of their values and natural law, and destruction of society btw) has made you delusional, something like that is too far left, and I mean almost falling off the left edge of the left wing, to be passed in societies like Australia or the USA. In countries where the centre is the left, like Sweden, is a different story, but I'm guessing they'll learn the lessons or pay the price.

Throughout history the minority has always eventually won through, that’s the fun part of being the minority. The only thing is I think the minority has a lot more people in it than you think. Everything will eventually happen, just a matter of when.

Don’t bother arguing any of this except my second paragraph, cause we both know we’re going in circles with everything else.

 

[dagwoman]

bshoc, you're an idiot for continuing to use the argument about "thousands of years of settled history" because that's the same argument people used to fight inter-racial marriage.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Ah yes the whole you dont like gays so you must be one argument, do you leftists all read out of the same retarded book or something, get some original opinions morons.

coming from someone who gets a lot of their opinons directly from wikipedia?

 

[dagwoman]

Jesus bshoc, I certainly don't think or hope you're gay. I don't want you on my team!

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Yeah well with your one or two Greens or Dem politicians that manage to get elected, keep fighting the good fight son lol Being a blatant minority with no prospects of achieving what you see as equality (most people see it as a violation of their values and natural law, and destruction of society btw) has made you delusional, something like that is too far left, and I mean almost falling off the left edge of the left wing, to be passed in societies like Australia or the USA. In countries where the centre is the left, like Sweden, is a different story, but I'm guessing they'll learn the lessons or pay the price.

That's right. Sweden has been falling apart ever since those gays got married.

Being a minority is not exactly a bad thing, the minority always wins in the
end.

You still can't prove that gay marriage would destroy society, and your comments about how much of a minority gay people are only ruins your own argument- if homosexuals only comptise 1% of the population, how could that 1% possibley destroy society?

Get over it bshoc, times are changing.
The majority is not always right.

 

[Dougie]

coming from someone who gets a lot of their opinons directly from wikipedia?

haha you're right. i just copied some of his arguement to google and all i got was wikipedia!
wouldn't have expected any more.

 

[dagwoman]

bshoc, if you're going to demand sources from other people and make ridiculous statements, you need to state your SOURCE5.

 

[Dougie]

wikipedia?

 

[Graham Trevor]

wikipedia?

It's safe to assume.

 

[bshoc]

haha you're right. i just copied some of his arguement to google and all i got was wikipedia!
wouldn't have expected any more.

Which argument aside from the pre-politcal institution argument where I noted my source was that?

 

[bshoc]

bshoc, if you're going to demand sources from other people and make ridiculous statements, you need to state your SOURCE5.

Considering I'm not the one who started bitching about sources in the first place .. LOL