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Homosexuality in Australia (4 Viewers)

What do you think of homosexuality in Australia?

  • Yes, i strongly support it.

    Votes: 674 48.5%
  • I somewhat support it.

    Votes: 201 14.5%
  • No opinion

    Votes: 182 13.1%
  • I do not support it.

    Votes: 334 24.0%

  • Total voters
    1,391

Se!zuRe.

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dagwoman said:
"i completely agreee with what ur saying but i am stating u dont need evidence to back up ur own beliefs although, justifying ur beliefs is acceptable and u read one of my posts i stated that we shuld discuss as to why these are infact our beliefs...xD"

What a redundant sentence.

Any good argument requires people to back up their beliefs. Otherwise it's not a worthwhile argument. The end. Back to topic.

skip89, please explain WHY you think homosexuality is immoral.
so just to clarify u are asking skip to explain why he sees homosexuality as immoral and to justify his beliefs... in other words u do see homosexuality now as a moral issue and are nowing asking why we have these morals... i thought previously u were saying that this isnt a moral issue now ur basing arguements on morals... isnt that a little hyprocritical or have u accepted the fact it is a moral issue... in other words i was right xD
 

skip89

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Cheers NTB, u would know.
I'd like to thank KFunk for his extremely valuable input into this thread (i am not being sarcastic)
To ur inner child.
Firstly i acknowledge that homosexuality is more than just physical attraction. But i believe sexual interaction should occur inside marraige only. I do not see cheating on your partner with someone else of the same gender any worse an offence (to God) than with someone of the oppposite gender.
I also do not believe in contraception as it reduces sexual activity to pleasure (appetite) and not for reproduction which is what God intended it for.
 

dagwoman

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Se!zuRe. said:
so just to clarify u are asking skip to explain why he sees homosexuality as immoral and to justify his beliefs... in other words u do see homosexuality now as a moral issue and are nowing asking why we have these morals... i thought previously u were saying that this isnt a moral issue now ur basing arguements on morals... isnt that a little hyprocritical or have u accepted the fact it is a moral issue... in other words i was right xD
Could you please use correct grammar and spelling? Reading your replies is tedious.

No. You're not right. What (I think) skip89 meant by calling homosexuality a "moral issue" is that he believes homosexuality is not right, or immoral. I was simply using his words so that he would answer my question, as I have asked time and time again for him to explain his view, without a response. Which I hope answers your first question, because it seems bloody obvious.

If you're going to take part in this debate, could you please just do that rather than commenting unnecessarily on people's posts?
 

Se!zuRe.

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dagwoman said:
"i completely agreee with what ur saying but i am stating u dont need evidence to back up ur own beliefs although, justifying ur beliefs is acceptable and u read one of my posts i stated that we shuld discuss as to why these are infact our beliefs...xD"

What a redundant sentence.

Any good argument requires people to back up their beliefs. Otherwise it's not a worthwhile argument. The end. Back to topic.

skip89, please explain WHY you think homosexuality is immoral.
u said we need to back up our own beliefs but this cant be done with so called evidence... we can only discuss why we have these beliefs and factors influencing them not backing them up... i really wuldnt care if the smartest person had a difference of opinion or a different belief to me and he had so called evidence to back up his beliefs they are just our beliefs and if ppl say homosexuality is wrong then that is their belief it may though be discarded as useless information but this is WHY WE BELIEVE not what others believe due to evidence..xD
 

Se!zuRe.

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dagwoman said:
Could you please use correct grammar and spelling? Reading your replies is tedious.

No. You're not right. What (I think) skip89 meant by calling homosexuality a "moral issue" is that he believes homosexuality is not right, or immoral. I was simply using his words so that he would answer my question, as I have asked time and time again for him to explain his view, without a response. Which I hope answers your first question, because it seems bloody obvious.

If you're going to take part in this debate, could you please just do that rather than commenting unnecessarily on people's posts?
my comments made relate to the issue and if u will read the previous page i made very valid comments on why this is a moral issue...xD
 

Not-That-Bright

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i completely agreee with what ur saying but i am stating u dont need evidence to back up ur own beliefs although, justifying ur beliefs is acceptable and u read one of my posts i stated that we shuld discuss as to why these are infact our beliefs...xD
I think you do need evidence/logic to back up your own beliefs, even if you're not going to justify them to others you still will have to justify them to yourself.

Cheers NTB, u would know.
Sorry mate what's this in reply to?
 

ur_inner_child

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skip89 said:
To ur inner child.
Firstly i acknowledge that homosexuality is more than just physical attraction. But i believe sexual interaction should occur inside marraige only.
But why? Why don't you accept that homosexuals can love each other the way a heterosexual couple would? Why should they not express their love through sexual interaction? Not even kissing? Why? I know this sounds tedious but you're being quite vague in your beliefs and why you hold them. You merely express your beliefs and that's all.

I'm expecting things like "because homosexuality is not natural and you can see this by the following...".

If it is true that religion is your only basis as to why things are right or wrong, I suggest that for your further growth as a human being, and as a religious person that from time to time you step back and analyse and daresay question your beliefs. This does not mean to drop them entirely. Sometimes such an objective stance may reaffirm your faith. It is better to understand why your religion does not approve of acts than to blindly accept whatever it preaches.
 
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Se!zuRe.

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Not-That-Bright said:
I think you do need evidence/logic to back up your own beliefs, even if you're not going to justify them to others you still will have to justify them to yourself.
well i am not against homosexuality for one thing and i do have reasons for my beliefs.. i just wanted people to discuss this also, and state the reasons for why they have their beliefs... xD
 

skip89

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Not-That-Bright said:
I think you do need evidence/logic to back up your own beliefs, even if you're not going to justify them to others you still will have to justify them to yourself.



Sorry mate what's this in reply to?
Just with your advice on quotations. I wasnt having a go at you or anything
 

Not-That-Bright

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I wasn't doubting that you do... You said that you "don't need to justify your beliefs" (essentially) - What you quoted before was my retort - Basically that you do need to justify your beliefs (at least to yourself).
 

ur_inner_child

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Se!zuRe. said:
Yer tru about the tolerance and i do agree peoples opinions can be changed but i do believe this is a moral issue and once againt the topic that shuld be discussed is why infact we have these opinions about homosexuality and if nething/neone has influenced this.. if so discuss in what ways we have been influenced and why these opinions are present in us...xD
I don't understand how you can fail to see the logic in presenting evidence.

Justifying your beliefs gives them credibility. One could believe that the world is round, when society believes it is actually flat. The person will justify their reason as to why the world is round, to prove that he is right.

I can't see how you cannot follow this?
 

Se!zuRe.

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Not-That-Bright said:
I wasn't doubting that you do... You said that you "don't need to justify your beliefs" (essentially) - What you quoted before was my retort - Basically that you do need to justify your beliefs (at least to yourself).
ty..xD agreeed
 

Se!zuRe.

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i just have a question as to both dagwoman and to skip as to identify why they have their beliefs and what beliefs they both infact have... so whether or not they believe homosexuality is moral and also what has influenced these beliefs in you..?
 

skip89

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ur_inner_child said:
But why? Why don't you accept that homosexuals can love each other the way a heterosexual couple would? Why should they not express their love through sexual interaction? Not even kissing? Why? I know this sounds tedious but you're being quite vague in your beliefs and why you hold them. You merely express your beliefs and that's all.

I'm expecting things like "because homosexuality is not natural and you can see this by the following...".

If it is true that religion is your only basis as to why things are right or wrong, I suggest that for your further growth as a human being, and as a religious person that from time to time you step back and analyse and daresay question your beliefs. This does not mean to drop them entirely. Sometimes such an objective stance may reaffirm your faith. It is better to understand why your religion does not approve of acts than to blindly accept whatever it preaches.
Please get things right. I never said homosexuals can not love each other like hetrosexuals. To the contrary, I said that homosexals can feel the same spiritual connection as between heterosexuals. If you are going to put words into my mouth, and not bother to look at what as been previously said than i wont bother taking note of anything you say.

The only person to have consicely addressed my opinions and affected them is KFunk. His responses demonstrate an intellect that i believe is above evryone else to have responded in this thread. I thank him again.

And please stop bringing up old points dagwoman.
 

Se!zuRe.

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ur_inner_child said:
I don't understand how you can fail to see the logic in presenting evidence.

Justifying your beliefs gives them credibility. One could believe that the world is round, when society believes it is actually flat. The person will justify their reason as to why the world is round, to prove that he is right.

I can't see how you cannot follow this?
i understand this and want to see why they have these beliefs that they do so the discussion can further continue.. i am interested as to how their beliefs came about although on this topic at hand i dont see how either of them can be wrong as it is a moral issue whereas whether the world is flat or not is based purely on scientific evidence..xD
 

KFunk

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To skip89, thanks for the shout out. I feel I should ask you again: how do you feel about the possibility of non-theistic morality?


Se!zuRe. said:
u said we need to back up our own beliefs but this cant be done with so called evidence... we can only discuss why we have these beliefs and factors influencing them not backing them up... i really wuldnt care if the smartest person had a difference of opinion or a different belief to me and he had so called evidence to back up his beliefs they are just our beliefs and if ppl say homosexuality is wrong then that is their belief it may though be discarded as useless information but this is WHY WE BELIEVE not what others believe due to evidence..xD
I thought it might be worthwhile bringing up the 'dangers of false belief' parable again. Quoting William Clifford, who demonstrates why it is important to critically evaluate and justify our beliefs:

"A shipowner was about to send to sea an emigrant-ship. He knew that she was old, and not overwell built at the first; that she had seen many seas and climes, and often had needed repairs. Doubts had been suggested to him that possibly she was not seaworthy. These doubts preyed upon his mind, and made him unhappy; he thought that perhaps he ought to have her thoroughly overhauled and and refitted, even though this should put him at great expense. Before the ship sailed, however, he succeeded in overcoming these melancholy reflections. He said to himself that she had gone safely through so many voyages and weathered so many storms that it was idle to suppose she would not come safely home from this trip also. He would put his trust in Providence, which could hardly fail to protect all these unhappy families that were leaving their fatherland to seek for better times elsewhere. He would dismiss from his mind all ungenerous suspicions about the honesty of builders and contractors. In such ways he acquired a sincere and comfortable conviction that his vessel was thoroughly safe and seaworthy; he watched her departure with a light heart, and benevolent wishes for the success of the exiles in their strange new home that was to be; and he got his insurance-money when she went down in mid-ocean and told no tales."
 

Se!zuRe.

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KFunk said:
To skip89, thanks for the shout out. I feel I should ask you again: how do you feel about the possibility of non-theistic morality?




I thought it might be worthwhile bringing up the 'dangers of false belief' parable again. Quoting William Clifford, who demonstrates why it is important to critically evaluate and justify our beliefs:

"A shipowner was about to send to sea an emigrant-ship. He knew that she was old, and not overwell built at the first; that she had seen many seas and climes, and often had needed repairs. Doubts had been suggested to him that possibly she was not seaworthy. These doubts preyed upon his mind, and made him unhappy; he thought that perhaps he ought to have her thoroughly overhauled and and refitted, even though this should put him at great expense. Before the ship sailed, however, he succeeded in overcoming these melancholy reflections. He said to himself that she had gone safely through so many voyages and weathered so many storms that it was idle to suppose she would not come safely home from this trip also. He would put his trust in Providence, which could hardly fail to protect all these unhappy families that were leaving their fatherland to seek for better times elsewhere. He would dismiss from his mind all ungenerous suspicions about the honesty of builders and contractors. In such ways he acquired a sincere and comfortable conviction that his vessel was thoroughly safe and seaworthy; he watched her departure with a light heart, and benevolent wishes for the success of the exiles in their strange new home that was to be; and he got his insurance-money when she went down in mid-ocean and told no tales."
thx alot for bringing this to my attention and possibly i didnt make myself clear earlier i will now rephrase..i dont believe u need evidence to support ur own beliefs but if u are infact stating this beliefs in a structued arguement and not just to have to urself.. in other words nething involving others.. u must have evidence or reasons in which to justify these beliefs.. evidence may not be clear in such a topic as this one as its clearly a moral issue although valid reasons wuld be nice..xD
 

dagwoman

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Exactly (in response to ur_inner_child).

What old points did I bring up?

And please answer WHY you disagree with homosexuality, as we've asked you repeatedly.
 
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KFunk

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Se!zuRe. said:
..i dont believe u need evidence to support ur own beliefs but if u are infact stating this beliefs in a structued arguement and not just to have to urself.. in other words nething involving others.. u must have evidence or reasons in which to justify these beliefs.. evidence may not be clear in such a topic as this one as its clearly a moral issue although valid reasons wuld be nice..xD
A lot of our beliefs affect others in some way, though some more indirectly than others. I should think that valid reasons are important, even essential, as apposed to being a mere nicety. For example, say someone believes that:

It is ok to kill women because they eat rocks.

^if you permit invalidity then you permit dangerous arguments (my example is a silly one, of course, but I hope you see my point).
 

skip89

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This is for KFunk.
I have had a religious upbringing. I have to admit that i know little about theistic morality. But if there is nothing higher than us, then why can not each individual with an individual conscince and will be a law unto themselves? I'll put it like this, who says that we should do right if we see it as right, and what are the consequences of denying what is right.
 
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