How to tell parents you didn't make it into 4u (3 Viewers)

[Axio]

Tell them you're pregnant and when they're shocked just say 'Nah jk I never got into 4u lol'.

I think that this is a viable option.

 

[BLIT2014]

If she really wants to do it could she do it by correspondence?

How close was she in 'missing out?'

 

[integral95]

I don't know why selective schools limit the number of students doing 4u math

Cause basically there's a lot of students in those school that a capable of doing 3U/4U maths... so much that they don't have enough teachers and classes to cater for all of them...

 

[faisalabdul16]

Cause basically there's a lot of students in those school that a capable of doing 3U/4U maths... so much that they don't have enough teachers and classes to cater for all of them...

True true

 

[zhertec]

Just say that you didn't want to do 4U, I mean, no one can tell the difference....right?

Edit: On a more serious note, I heard somewhere that theoretically your school cannot prevent you from doing a subject and that you can just ring BOS up to get it fixed or something, can anyone confirm this?

 

[anomalousdecay]

Edit: On a more serious note, I heard somewhere that theoretically your school cannot prevent you from doing a subject and that you can just ring BOS up to get it fixed or something, can anyone confirm this?

You have to take into account resources though and I'm pretty sure that if the school had too many students they could easily say that they did not have enough resources.

 

[silkroads]

Just say that you didn't want to do 4U, I mean, no one can tell the difference....right?

Edit: On a more serious note, I heard somewhere that theoretically your school cannot prevent you from doing a subject and that you can just ring BOS up to get it fixed or something, can anyone confirm this?

Probably; but not at Ruse.

Her best bet is for her to organise a meeting between her parents the the head teacher of maths. Because then she will either
1. Get into 4U
2. Have parents who aren't hell bent on having a child doing 4U

 

[faisalabdul16]

She's still getting a 99 who cares

 

[cem]

Schools can limit who gets into a course if the course is full in which case they have a maximum number of students allowed - and that is a set figure and not negotiable.

A school like Ruse would definitely be running full classes for 4 Unit and thus there is no vacancy in the classes.

And before people say - one more won't matter - it does - it would reduce the amount of time each student gets with the teacher and increase the marking etc for the teacher.

Schools also have a limited number of teachers based on the number of students and ALL classes have to be covered from Years 7 - 12 so running an extra 4 Unit class means not covering another class somewhere, which can't be done. Legally remember that the junior classes (7 - 10) must do Maths and so those classes have to be covered before senior classes that are actually optional classes.

I know that senior students see themselves as the most important - and in many ways they are - but the whole school is important as well to the principal etc who are accountable to the Dept etc and would be in trouble if the principal said something like - 'I can't cover all my Year 7 Maths classes because I decided to run an extra 4 Unit class' - not going to be happening.

 

[mreditor16]

Cause basically there's a lot of students in those school that a capable of doing 3U/4U maths... so much that they don't have enough teachers and classes to cater for all of them...

BUT, in such schools (e.g. Ruse, Baulko etc.) where close to all kids want to do 4u (due to the desire of either parents, themselves or tutors), the school doesn't want the weak students to drag the cohort down or waste their time on a subject they will either drop or do miserably at, considering high atar aims.... so that's a factor for only letting some do it...

 

[iStudent]

Just do 4u through tafe like emilios said. It still goes towards hsc and it's virtually the same except you study at a different place with different people (or so i think). Worth
*otherwise just tell your parents "I didn't make it into 4u" easy, lol.

 

[anomalousdecay]

Except that the principals of selective schools who refuse to grant a fourth Extension 2 Maths class can somehow manage to staff three Extension 2 English classes for only 30 students.

In my day we were lucky to even get an extension class running.

Pretty bad to have 30 students with 3 classes. However its up to the schools discretion in the end so its their say.

 

[cem]

Except that the principals of selective schools who refuse to grant a fourth Extension 2 Maths class can somehow manage to staff three Extension 2 English classes for only 30 students.

That is possible because of the number of teachers they have AND the training those teachers have. They could staff another 4U class but that would mean another Maths class would have to be taught by an English teacher and the Dept would not think that an appropriate use of the teaching staff and the parents would quite rightly complain.

It isn't just we have xxxx number of teachers and yyyyy classes to cover but we have aaaaa number of Maths teachers and bbbbb number of Maths classes to cover (and the same in other subjects) which is why some subjects can run with smaller classes while others classes with bigger numbers can't run - because the number of qualified teachers isn't on the staff e.g. we have had years at my school where one of the histories hasn't run simply because we needed the History teachers to cover the junior classes so a choice had to be made about Ancient or Modern and then the following year - with the same or even fewer students the two histories have run.

 

[bosanon95]

Unless your friend decides to go to bankstown, north Sydney or Randwick tafe to do 4u maths. Or do it to distance ed, if not, he/she will just have to face the reality if not being able to do 4u. See post I found on BoS:http://community.boredofstudies.org...tment-not-being-able-pick-up-3u-4u-maths.html

 

[aDimitri]

No it does NOT mean that a class would have to be taught by an English teacher. Where do you get that from?
In my school, we have SIX maths teachers who have taught Ext 2. They still only give us three Ext 2 classes each year despite having over 100 students selecting it.

The reasons for limiting the number of Ext 2 classes are agenda based. All of the top selective high schools have the staff and the expertise to support 4 classes.

if a student is going to get an e2 they shouldn't be doing it at all.

 

[anomalousdecay]

Students ranked in the 70s at Penrith HS have nowhere near the mathematical ability of those at the higher ranked selective schools.

inb4 the users on here who go Penrith High shitstorm.


But I get the point you are making here Braintic. It makes sense to give them an opportunity to do the subjects they want. There are first year engineering students that I have met that wished to do MX2 in high school, and they did well in MX1 (47+/50), but simply they were restricted to not doing MX2 due to the cut-offs of maximum numbers of students to do it.

However, given the situations (I am not too aware with schools with large numbers of students as I never went to one) the school is in, it really may be dependent on how the situation affects students in lower years too. I mean, its made more compulsory to have teachers for lower years classes than to have extra MX2 classes.

However, there could be someone taking care of this. There could be some sort of campaign so that if a school finds they are short of teachers, they can ask an agency to find them a new teacher for the role. There surely has to be some teachers out there looking to find permanent work who can fulfil the role.

I guess how applicable this is, is dependent on the ability for the student to find an appropriate other method of doing the MX2 course. For example, this campaign can simply say "hang on, but they (the students not allowed to do MX2) live right next to this tafe which offers the course, so we won't bother getting the extra teachers here for them".

It depends on the situation. Some situations are more flexible than others. It seems like your school require more attention in this depratment though as you have pointed out. In the case of some other top schools, it might not be as applicable.

 

[anomalousdecay]

I can name seven top selective schools which have this issue (but I won't).
A recently-ex selective high principal whom I know claims there is a gentleman's agreement amongst the principals of these schools to limit the number of Ext 2 classes to three.

Schools are given a quota of teachers based on student enrolments, and they can't just employ someone extra beyond this quota. But principals CAN staff only two classes instead of three for 30 Extension 2 English students, and free up a teacher for an extra Extension 2 maths class. F knows how they get away with that. The fact that an English teacher most likely cannot teach maths is not an issue. There are always teachers teachers teaching outside their faculty in junior school, and this is where the swapover would be done.

The issue is not one of logistics. It is an issue related to the agendas of principals and deputies who overwhelmingly come from the humanities subjects.

(I mentioned Penrith HS only because the person I was replying to says in their profile that they go to Penrith)

Wow. However do note that some humanities teachers would not know a level of maths themselves to teach junior maths. Also, they could be teaching in a wrong manner which is not effective or teaching in a manner where they are making students learn a method in the wrong way. I guess this is why training is necessary (or else you can lead to some sort of misconceptions and stuff for the students).

I think now this is too far out of scope of my knowledge. Although I know and speak to a lot of selective high students from top 15 schools, I came from the opposite end of the spectrum so I wouldn't have a clue how Principals agree with each other at top schools.

Its not a very nice thing to simply cull the numbers based on an agreement to employ more of a certain branch of teachers. In that situation it is like as if they are not meeting the demands of education, by simply over-supplying one subject and under-supplying another subject.

 

[aDimitri]

Students ranked in the 70s at Penrith HS have nowhere near the mathematical ability of those at the higher ranked selective schools. The students who just miss out on Ext 2 at these schools would be considered among the best students at most non-selective high schools.

Yes, and Penrith restricts it at ~30 + the previous accelerated (not fixed).

 

[mreditor16]

But WHY do they do that. Why don't they let kids choose for themselves?
(I know the answer BTW, just want to hear what line they spin)

Just some information:

This year Baulko for the first time had 5 extension 2 maths (total - 111 students) classes instead of the usual 4, supposedly violating the gentlemen's agreement you raised earlier.

The head teacher was reluctant to form 5 4u classes, but he did so because extension 1 marks for the prelim course (which are used to determine who gets in and who doesn't) were so so tight in the ranks ranging from 80 to 110.

however, he did make all students sit the 2u assessment in term 4 (in case any students dropped back to 3U) and subsequently forced weaker 4U students sit 2u assessments for hy and term 2 and yearly. in the end, only 4 students ended up dropping from 4u to 3u.

just some info....

also, braintic, could you just respond to my pm whenever you get time? I sent it a while ago.....

 

[aDimitri]

But WHY do they do that. Why don't they let kids choose for themselves?
(I know the answer BTW, just want to hear what line they spin)

they don't bother. everyone gladly accepts it. they don't want to continue the course if they're getting ~50-60% raw. and i don't blame them tbh that would just make me feel like shit.