Iraqi War (1 Viewer)

[katie_tully]

katie.........u usually have good arguments.........but that one sucked

so wat ur saying is that they r now "liberated"..........ah no...actualy theyve moved on from being oppressed by saddam.....to being oppressed by the americans....theyve really done nothing to liberate iraq........saddam killed millions in abt 40yrs.........give the americans 40 yrs and thell kill 30 times as many the way theyre going.......

Correct me if I'm wrong but Iraq is electing a government as we speak is it not? The Americans aren't in there for the long term, they're in there until there is stability.
As always, inoocent people are casualties of war; how many of them have been killed by Iraqi extremists? How many of them would have died if Saddam was still in power?

If my argument is so shit, please enlighten us as to what your solution would have been.

 

[joujou_84]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Iraq is electing a government as we speak is it not? The Americans aren't in there for the long term, they're in there until there is stability.
As always, inoocent people are casualties of war; how many of them have been killed by Iraqi extremists? How many of them would have died if Saddam was still in power?

If my argument is so shit, please enlighten us as to what your solution would have been.

yeh but wat government will they put......come one.....everyone knows it.........theyll instate who they want.....if u had bothered to read my earlier post u would know wat my solution was....actually where america is invloved everyone loses and the americans win.....however they went abt everything the wrong way.......they had a chance to kill saddam ages ago.....however preferred to give him weapons to invade kuwait coz this was to americas advantage.....they americans dont care abt iraqis.....they do wat suits them....and now the invasion suits them......wat ur saying is saddam killed the iraqis........but its ok that the americans r now killing them coz at least saddam is gone, more wouldve died had saddam been still around......thats pretty shit.....the americans r meant to be liberators.......not murderers....and for a so called democratic nation....theyre acting worse than saddam......but if u really think the iraqis will stand on their own two feet and create a democratic nation then ur sadly mistaken...

edit: they wont create a democtaic nation because there r far too many ppl in iraq who dont want it......and will put themselves in the firing line to stop it......

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Americans problem often is... they get themselves into problems and wait untill the last minute to try to fix it up.

 

[Generator]

oh ok .. i neva knew that.. i gues u do learn something new every day... although i'm not quite convinced that they even knew each other well enough not to like each other...

Bin Laden = Islamic Fundamentalist.
Hussein = Secularist.

...

 

[ZabZu]

Bin Laden = Islamic Fundamentalist.
Hussein = Secularist.

...

Isn't Saddam a Sunni Muslim and Osama a Shi'ite.

 

[joujou_84]

Isn't Saddam a Sunni Muslim and Osama a Shi'ite.

osama is a wahabi.........they actually kill shias...........

 

[physician]

osama is a wahabi.........they actually kill shias...........

wahabi, shii'te, sunni... no matter what.. its wrong that any of them go around killing each other... i neva knew that wahabi's kill shia ppl...
but anyways the prophet (peace be upon him) said that if a muslim and a muslim have a fight and one kills the other.... then one or both of them will enter hell.. because surely one or both had the intention to kill...

I have a teacher that's wahabi.. he doesnt seem to mind shia or sunni.. i mean a muslim is a msulim.. and the religion doesn't teach that we should kill each other... or kill anyone... the prophet peace be upon him said that a muslim should never point a sword at his brother.....

No matter what sect thay follow... If they testify that there is no God but (Allah) and that Muhammad (peace be upon him)is his messanger and holy servant.. thenthey are muslim....

this has been said beforebut i'll mention it again because i'll probably get ppl telling me that what i said probably means that we can go around killing non-muslims.... which is infact completely incorrect...

we are only allowed to attack when we are attacked.. we cannot prpose war on another country..person.. or wateva.. and if someone offers peace we must accept... that is what the religion teaches.,. but many do not follow it in such a way... or it may be that fact that... well they have ppl destroying their homes for 40 years and then they tell them to seize fire (even though they have no weapons).. i mean if someones been attacking u for so long and then they say ok we want peace now.. after ur left homeless.. i mean thats just like saying "hey i've destroyed u and ur country.. now can we have peace because i'ts ur turn to fight back"...



and yeh i agree with what joujou said.. about giving america 40 years and they'll do more damage than saddam by 10 times.... pff probably even more...

by the way umm i recall america saying at the beginning of the war that it was only going to take them 3 days.. "its only going to be a 3 day war" .... it was basically all over the news.. so were they trying to fool the world? because i think its just a little past 3 days...

I dont think Australian soldiers should have been put in a possition were they must risk their lives.... i mean a large percentage of them have familes... imagine what they would feel when they see a 5 year old child dead on the streets knowing that they were shot by a soldier whether the soldier is from america britain or wateva.. they're all in it together....

oh and one more question:

america claimed that Iraq had nuclear weapons.... and that is the reason they gave themselves to attack (UN show up saying there were no wweapons... america says.. opps sorry... we had the wrong intelligence.. but we must still remain here and help the poor Iraqi's..)

well why does america have nuclear weapons?.. maybe we should attack america....

did u know that 25% of america's nuclear weapon supply could wipe out world hunger?................

 

[joujou_84]

yeh i generalised too much didnt i just then.......not all wahabis believe that killing a shia is a good thing........its just those radical ones that follow osama bin laden...but yeh....u cant call them real muslims anyway the way theyre going.

 

[joujou_84]

america claimed that Iraq had nuclear weapons.... and that is the reason they gave themselves to attack (UN show up saying there were no wweapons... america says.. opps sorry... we had the wrong intelligence.. but we must still remain here and help the poor Iraqi's..)

well why does america have nuclear weapons?.. maybe we should attack america....

did u know that 25% of america's nuclear weapon supply could wipe out world hunger?................

israel has nuclear weapons but no one dares to tell them to get rid of it........instead america is now looking towards iran as they too have nuclear weapons......i get the feeling iran is next on the american hit list.......

 

[physician]

israel has nuclear weapons but no one dares to tell them to get rid of it........instead america is now looking towards iran as they too have nuclear weapons......i get the feeling iran is next on the american hit list.......

yeh probably is.... but yeh i doubt they'll have time to attack iran any time soon.. because well at the moment in time the iraqi's arent giving up.. they continue theire struggle for survival...

but anyway way an interesting fact about saddam..

saddam hussein was one of the best of ppl when it came to encouraging education.... he used to give ppl money.. houses everyhting.. in order that they may recive the best education.. why do u think so many iraqis are smart.. i mean there are thousands of iraqi doctors.. he used to love eduaction... i think thats the only nuclear weapon he posessed and that is whay they were attacked... he posesed the destructive weapon of the mind.. he was giving his nation the best thing any person could ask for and that was education... to an extremely high level...


Iraq was producing some of the most intelligent of people.. however at the moment in time its not so easy anymore.. bceause unfortunately america isn't able to fulfill the duty to the nation in regards to education the way saddam used to.... All of this was told to me by Iraqi family freinds.. who are indeed very educated....

 

[soha]

thats so true...
all the trolley guys at my sisters work(and sum at my work) are iraqi
they are all university educated..have degrees in this and that
really smart guys...except in australia they forced to be trolley guys
its sad really..that they push trolleys 5 days a week for $10 an hour to support their families

when they could be doctors and other stuff with their intelligence

 

[ArgueEverything]

yeh probably is.... but yeh i doubt they'll have time to attack iran any time soon.. because well at the moment in time the iraqi's arent giving up.. they continue theire struggle for survival...

but anyway way an interesting fact about saddam..

saddam hussein was one of the best of ppl when it came to encouraging education.... he used to give ppl money.. houses everyhting.. in order that they may recive the best education.. why do u think so many iraqis are smart.. i mean there are thousands of iraqi doctors.. he used to love eduaction... i think thats the only nuclear weapon he posessed and that is whay they were attacked... he posesed the destructive weapon of the mind.. he was giving his nation the best thing any person could ask for and that was education... to an extremely high level...


Iraq was producing some of the most intelligent of people.. however at the moment in time its not so easy anymore.. bceause unfortunately america isn't able to fulfill the duty to the nation in regards to education the way saddam used to.... All of this was told to me by Iraqi family freinds.. who are indeed very educated....

He may have encouraged education, but he certainly did not encourage freedom of thought. His Iraq may have produced "intelligent" people, but they were politically and intellectually castrated by the constant backdrop of a repressive police state.

I also question whether his commitment to education was spread amongst the diverse entirety of the Iraqi population, or offered mainly to Sunnis. It doesn't seem to have done much for the impoverished Shi'ites in the slums of Western Baghdad, or the Kurds in the North. All they got was mustard gas. But then again, maybe it was mustard gas produced by those Iraqis who were educated courtesy of Mr Hussein.

 

[ZabZu]

israel has nuclear weapons but no one dares to tell them to get rid of it........instead america is now looking towards iran as they too have nuclear weapons......i get the feeling iran is next on the american hit list.......

Iran isn't exactly the most reliable and responsible country to possess nuclear weapons. I heard rumours that either Israel or the US will try destroy the reactors soon. If there was a strike i reckon it would be simialr to that of Israel's attack on Iraq in the 80s.

There are some really smart people from the Iraq, middle east region. Didn't an Iranian person get the highest UAI in NSW a few years back?

 

[joujou_84]

Iran isn't exactly the most reliable and responsible country to possess nuclear weapons. I heard rumours that either Israel or the US will try destroy the reactors soon. If there was a strike i reckon it would be simialr to that of Israel's attack on Iraq in the 80s.

There are some really smart people from the Iraq, middle east region. Didn't an Iranian person get the highest UAI in NSW a few years back?

exactly iranians r too smart to attack without reason......they should however be able to defend themselves.....it seems that america wants to rid the world of nuclear weapons yet maintain their own and support isreal in also possessing weapons

i dont mind them destroying iranian weapons.....as long as they destroy isreali weapons and get rid of their own......coz at the rate the US are going they also arent "the most reliable and responsible country to possess nuclear weapons".....

 

[ZabZu]

The Iranian people may be smart but im not the biggest fan of the Iranian government.

The reason why Iran is developing the nuclear weapons, you'll know this too, is because Israel possesses nuclear weapons. Israel may have the weapons for her protection but it has caused an arms race in the middle east.

The region is a mess.

 

[katie_tully]

yeh but wat government will they put......come one.....everyone knows it.........theyll instate who they want.....if u had bothered to read my earlier post u would know wat my solution was....actually where america is invloved everyone loses and the americans win.....however they went abt everything the wrong way.......they had a chance to kill saddam ages ago.....however preferred to give him weapons to invade kuwait coz this was to americas advantage.....they americans dont care abt iraqis.....they do wat suits them....and now the invasion suits them......wat ur saying is saddam killed the iraqis........but its ok that the americans r now killing them coz at least saddam is gone, more wouldve died had saddam been still around......thats pretty shit.....the americans r meant to be liberators.......not murderers....and for a so called democratic nation....theyre acting worse than saddam......but if u really think the iraqis will stand on their own two feet and create a democratic nation then ur sadly mistaken...

edit: they wont create a democtaic nation because there r far too many ppl in iraq who dont want it......and will put themselves in the firing line to stop it......

You say they won't create a democratic nation because there are too many people in Iraq who don't want it? Name your sources. Who? Are yoy refering to the Iraqi Terrorists who are leading insurgencies against the American troops? Do you think as soon as America leaves the blood shed will stop?
Nobody ever said it was OK that the Americans had created casualties, especially civilian casualities --> They're acting worse than Hussein?

So far you have only described your lack of faith in the Iraqi people, and their inabiltiy to create a democratic society... despite the newly elected government and prime minister....

I love a bleeding heart liberals solution to a problem, really I do.
I would have no other amusement in my life if it weren’t for them

Hussein killed 340,000 Iraqi’s and 730,000 Iranians. 1000 Kuwaitis, Shi’ite Muslim deaths tally up to 60,000-100,000. Mass graves uncovered in 2003 suggest as many as 300,000 died, whilst 500,000 Iraqi children died due to international trade sanctions.
Hussein used chemical warfare against Iranians during the Iraq-Iran war. 5000 Iranians were murdered by chemical weapons alone during 1983-1988. Reports say that Iraqi soldiers killed several thousand Iranian prisoners of war, breaching the Geneva Conventions of 1949 of which Iraq was an official party.
In March 1988, 5000 Iranians lost their lives to chemical warfare in an attack.
Humans Rights Watch estimates that between 50,000-100,000 Kurds were killed in the year 1987 – the Anfal campaign which is now being referred to as genocide.
In 1990 Iraq invaded Kuwait, where more than 1000 Kuwaiti nationals were killed. Iraq also engaged in environmental crimes, destructing oil wells in Kuwaiti oil fields which would lead to future economic/financial burden for the nation.
In 1991, Iraqi forces killed between 30,000-60,000 of their own countrymen for uprising against the attack on Kuwait. This was also due to the neglect the Iraqi people had been subjected to under Hussein’s rule. Most of the people killed were civilians.
From 1990 until present the Hussein government has been draining the marshes of Southern Iraq which deprived many Iraqi people of their livelihood.
Iraq “ethnically cleansed” many Persians living in Iraq.
Unlawful killing of political opponents in excess of 10,000, especially the Shi’a clergy.

Now. I have read all of your posts and you are yet to clearly define a solution to the problem?

Iraq never had the capability of launching an attack on the United States of America. One of the main reasons behind the 2003 Iraqi War is that USA had the belief that Hussein had a strong enough desire to extract revenge on America for interfering with its invasion of Kuwait (which was the initial reasoning for the Gulf War). If the US were to engage in pre-emptive warfare with the purpose of overthrowing/killing Hussein, they also had reason enough to believe that Hussein could use that as the basis for an attack.
Iraq was a violent enemy. He had no rationale, he was as mad as a cut snake. Everybody bitches that Bush Sr. had the chance to over throw Hussein in 1991, but now that Hussein has been over thrown it still isn’t good enough. America didn’t have enough evidence supporting the idea that Hussein already had WMD, but they had strong evidence to suggest that he was going to acquire them in the near future.
There was suggestion that America engaged in pre-emptive warfare before exhausting all other options yet is has to be noted that Iraq has previously cheated on disarmament regulations and there is nothing to say that they wouldn’t again

Yes. It is true that there are Iraqi civilian fatalities; America is no more to blame than anybody else. For 30 years Hussein committed war crimes and crimes against humanity, but nothing was ever done about it. By anybody. Iraqi civilians who opposed the war were murdered.

 

[katie_tully]

It is true regarding Iran/Israel. If Iran continues to stockpile weapons, Israel will feel as though they need to also.
Bush doesn’t have the resources to stop both parties, instead this is where the UN should step in. The Western world stood back and watched as Pakistan sold them the weapons, so them being in possession of such weapons unfortunately is inevitable, but instead of launching military operations to stop the usage perhaps as some people say, the best option is forging an alliance with them.

 

[katie_tully]

And...er...in relation to terrorism;
The only links they have been Iraq and Osama is that they believe Osama could use the war in Iraq as a basis for further attacks on the western nations.

 

[joujou_84]

Do you think as soon as America leaves the blood shed will stop?

i hope u r right..........only time will tell whether democracy prospers in iraq or fails....

 

[joujou_84]

The Iranian people may be smart but im not the biggest fan of the Iranian government.

The reason why Iran is developing the nuclear weapons, you'll know this too, is because Israel possesses nuclear weapons. Israel may have the weapons for her protection but it has caused an arms race in the middle east.

The region is a mess.

well yeh.......iran dosent trust israel and isreal dosent trust iran..so as long as one has weapons....the other isnt going to give up theirs....