Is english pointless? (2 Viewers)

[jack1]

All subjects are going to be useless for some people and none of them stand out as being better or worse because so many (including english) are tested by remembering random facts and being asked to write them out in either as short answer or an essay. In one week I had to write an in class essay for both physics and english. Whats the difference between being taught to write an essay in one subject compared to the other?

 

[Virtuoso Soup]

the whole hsc is both pointless and it isnt at the same time. pointless because well never need to use the shit ever again, and useful as it ranks everyone and gives us some indication of what we would want to do. the system is nowhere near perfect, and im not a fan, but surely im not the only one who sees it like this.

 

[silvermoon]

Woah, I wasn't bagging out teachers. I feel sorry for them too, for having to teach the stuff! I've heard they're also largely treated by those in charge as though they're not capable of teaching anything without having it spelt out to them, too. I am also well aware their profession is one that is heavily criticised without justification in a way that would be impermissable (or illegal) if done to doctors, lawyers, etc...

lmao, well, all forgiven then

 

[silvermoon]

I understand that teachers have it hard, my step dads a school principal. But saying that they work 16-18 hrs a day is a bit extreme. He gets there at around 8:30 and finishes at around 5-6 (occasionally 7). Thats just iver your average day. The rest of the teachers go home, Have dinner, go outside, do some marking. I've spoken to all my teachers about this and thats what they do.

perhaps that depends on what particular institution they teach at. im sure there are those who do less/more than others in every profession. i was roughly quoting hours from the teachers i know who teach at various private and public schools throughout newcastle and sydney

 

[Rax]

Ok well everyone has said good points about all the stuff

But there is one thing I dont agree with. The fact that 2 units of English is COMPULSORY for Your UAI

Now I can handle having to do English and all that kind of thing
I aint that good at it to be honest, I can only write half an essay in 40 min etc
But it is 2 compulsory units for the UAI...........which is a bit unfair
Compulsory Subject Yes
Compulsory UAI : Most probably Yes...But it still hurts
1 Unit of english, that would be better
lol

Keep up the constructive discussion

 

[AsyLum]

This has been done before:

Bottom Line: English speaking country, you want to be competent enough to speak or use english at least for basics. 1 Unit of english would probably not be enough contact hours for kids to understand, as you have stated, especially for those already struggling with the current course.

It isn't pointless as you use it everyday, and particularly if you want to get into professional jobs, you can't get through by using colloquialisms or slang. If you don't think that will appeal to you, then do Standard English, very simple.

 

[Gangels]

perhaps that depends on what particular institution they teach at. im sure there are those who do less/more than others in every profession. i was roughly quoting hours from the teachers i know who teach at various private and public schools throughout newcastle and sydney

Oh well i spose they might be longer in sydney. My dad doesnt get home til 8 or 9 and he works in the middle of the city. I live in Orange so i spose it could be different. But id hate to be a teacher up there now. Bloody kids are getting annoyed about having to wear uniform and making up shit about the teachers. It stupid as.

 

[Legham]

English is complete BS. In year 10 i didnt learn a single thing, except maybe the definitions of a few language techniques, which im never going to use.. Now almost 9 weeks into year 11 the only thing i've learnt is a rough idea of the storyline to Othello. I seriously get really pissed off when i think about how it is compulsory. It is F**king retarded. I dont think it should even be an elective course, letalone a compulsory course, and even less so compulsory to the UAI!

Now Maths, that should definetely be a compulsory subject, at least the general course. Everybody in the whole of Australia needs Maths.. Even if they don't have a job, they'll need to be able to work out the basic stuff for their money purposes. Also, most jobs need a decent understanding of Maths. And how many jobs do you need to know the storyline and so called "film techniques" (which i think most weren't planned by the producer) of Othello and Romeo and Juliet? I can think of one: English Teacher.

 

[silvermoon]

You have missed the point --> the english syllabus directs you to be taught things such as - as you pointed out - how to identify and discuss the use of 'techniques' as a framework to enhance your communication and critical analysis skills.

 

[Legham]

Then why do we spend 200 hours in one year to just get a brief understanding of a few techniques? It isn't even a useful topic..

 

[Gangels]

Then why do we spend 200 hours in one year to just get a brief understanding of a few techniques? It isn't even a useful topic..

No, through reading other peoples opinions on this i have realised the values of english are critical. I've also been thinking about jobs and i believe that both should be compulsory. Everything is based around maths, from arts to contracting, but if you go to an interview and start talking like a 'yobbo' then an employer will employ the better speaker, who isnt you.

If you get anything wrong on a resume your fucked, if you cant analyse something properly or see different techniques then your communication is taking you down.
They could be doing more to prepare you for the outside world but we have parents.

 

[*slurtznow&4eva]

Then why do we spend 200 hours in one year to just get a brief understanding of a few techniques? It isn't even a useful topic..

i agree, by yr 10 we can speak and write so why should we HAVE to do it 4 our HSC

 

[silvermoon]

hopefully by the end of the year you will have more than a "brief understanding of a few techniques"

 

[Legham]

but if you go to an interview and start talking like a 'yobbo' then an employer will employ the better speaker, who isnt you.

I understand that. But all the texts we read/watch don't teach us how to talk normal, for modern times anyway. Shakespeare, for example. Go to a job interview and talk entirely shakespearian, and see if you get a job. And yet, we still have to do a Shakespeare play every year..

 

[silvermoon]

Shakespeare introduces to you the idea that English language may be manipulated to discuss both new concepts and conceptual models

 

[Legham]

And we need to know that.. why? That's all in the past. You know what else was in the past? Cavemen! Why don't they teach us how to grunt and beat things with clubs?

 

[Gangels]

Hehe, i like the way you think leglam, but silver is right. I'm really not sure what i'm talking about but i know that from talking to people like silver. I think i'll leave this up to silver cause i think i'm just retarded.

 

[sam04u]

I agree that 2u maths should scale a little higher...(Because some people take the course.. score 60s... which doesn't neccesarily mean they don't understand the concepts.)
Yet someone getting say; 80 in general maths would get a higher contribution towards their UAI. (Which confuses me beyong comprehension... I guess you should only take 2u. If you're "better" then others at it. Regardless of how "good" you are at the subject. Thats why i took general maths).

Also, I believe taking a "math" course should be compulsorary...(however most people take one anyway) Because I do agree... that knowing maths is important in all aspects of life... just not... 2u maths... Most times you'll never use it... and then forget it... or have to revise it constantly....

English is important... but I don't like the way the subject is structured... It's too critical... There shouldn't be a "right" or a "wrong" answer.... That's telling the audience how to think! (Which is incredibly stupid);

Also, to legham;
I agree! That some of the techniques may be coincidental... but does that take away from the fact that they produced it?
However the (HSC) poetry that you're likely to read... are not coincidental... I guess it teaches you to think... in an abstract way...

We learn that from an early age... and its important... The way you interpret things... I could say for instance....
"Tension rises; my forehead is a grill;
nervously I anticipate; pores begin to spill."
See, its like adding magic to words... you might think its stupid... but its poetry.. how else can you "explain sweating" so magically?
Most people use techniques... Most people understand them.... but it takes a educated person to interpret them.

The other topics like Film Techniques... and Play techniques... and especially symbolism... if it's not in a poem then its coincidental. I don't care what their intention was... people aren't goint to be watching a movie & looking at a storm and say... "OMG! Look! that means there is going to be CONFLICT! YAYA!" ..... True? OR those who even call it foreshadowing.... "noobz"...

I still think a proper course on Politics and History should be compulsory... and it should be joined with like a Society & Culture course... (with less bullshit).
If they were to take what im saying now serious.. I would make the syllabus right now... just for it to be examined. It would be fun.... Enlightening; Etc.

Teach you how to "understand" people... how to "deal" with people. How to "interpret" people.... Learn about people from different countries... learn about government... & the history of government.
Best part would be... that it would be like the practical aspects that you could use in life... where long essays aren't important... just the ammount you understand....

Gah.... sounds so utopian!

 

[nrs1990]

English is compulsory, but Advanced English isn't. A lot of this thread seems to be bagging out Advanced English, saying how useless it is. But if it's so bad, why not just do General?

 

[sam04u]

No one, really cares about english being compulsorary.
They just dont want it to automatically account for 2units of their UAI. (Usually because they're shit at it, and it will hurt their UAI).

Also, if it had to be compulsorary... they think it should be more realistic... more about... writing, and evaluating. And less about making assumptions... and Inventing techniques.

Because now the HSC course for english.. has alot of... "crap" in it.
I like HSC poetry though. Its logical, and you actually can derive meaning from it. It's not "purely" coincidental.

-Peace