july 28 right to be born rally (1 Viewer)

[Ennaybur]

another point to the conservatives..

 

[bshoc]

much safer to jump to the conclusion that he is actually a communist and flame him about it.

I actually had good reason to suspect he was a troll, not safer, just more fun.

also why do conservatives have this obsession with likening any left wing idea to communism when there is generally very little similarity. its like you cant attack the idea, but you can vaguely link it to communism which you are experienced in attacking because you do it all the time.

Its all the same stuff, disrespect for the indavidual, I don't care how you want to differentiate it.

 

[Raven3333]

How can you argue the the fetus is not part of the female body during pregnancy. For starters the fetus is attached to the body by the ambilical cord through which it needs to survive. Using your argument that the fetus is not part of the females body the female should have the right to remove it from the body at any time she wishes, The fact that the fetus can't survive outside the body is not her problem.

I'm hardly a pro-choice supporter (the government should interfere more as some idiots clearly arn't capable of looking after themselves), I'm just pointing out that your argument is illogical.

 

[Ennaybur]

I actually had good reason to suspect he was a troll, not safer, just more fun.



Its all the same stuff, disrespect for the indavidual, I don't care how you want to differentiate it.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but isn't the point of being left wing about respecting individuals? Generally about those who aren't privileged in society, maybe minorities, but generally those that aren't rich and powerful. See their stance on women, homosexuals, minorities, lower classes, and so forth.

 

[Cai Zhi Long]

Most anti-choice advocates are against abortion at all levels and all reasons. They hold their beliefs in an often illogical and fanatical manner similar to a religious belief and will not listen to reason.

 

[aussiechica7]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How can you argue the the fetus is not part of the female body during pregnancy. For starters the fetus is attached to the body by the ambilical cord through which it needs to survive. Using your argument that the fetus is not part of the females body the female should have the right to remove it from the body at any time she wishes, The fact that the fetus can't survive outside the body is not her problem.

[/FONT]Um... because the foetus is not a part of the mother's body. It's merely attached to it. Lots of things can be attached to you, it doesn't mean it becomes a part of you. The foetus is a homo sapian and is living, so it is an alive human. It has different DNA to you so it is an alive human that is not you. It also might have different blood type and sex. The only issue is that he/she HAPPENS to be growing inside of your uterus. I don't think that gives you the right to end his/her life on the basis of convenience alone. If you're not ready to have kids, take measures to avoid conception. Abortion should not be birth control. If you think about it newborn babies are just as dependent on other humans to survive (particularly their mothers). Unless someone feed, shelters and takes care of the child, he/she will die. I don't think that's enough reason to say it doesn't have the right to life.
There is a valid argument about the inconvenience of housing the child until it can be born. However, I don't think this point is as valid as the right of the foetus/embryo to continue living. They are two ethical claims and I think one is superior.


[FONT=&quot]so stop letting men ejaculate and cease menstruating about it.[/FONT]
Lol... you're right. This is exactly the same thing as a foetus. I especially love how the cells involved, if uninterrupted, would lead to the birth of a live human, and how they have their very own DNA, separate from the man/woman who was ejaculating/menstruating.



To the op, in all seriousness, would you support a legal right to choose abortion in cases of rape or incest? Or if there are serious medical complications?

Yes. Incest --> foetus likely to not be viable, and to have SERIOUS medical complications at and after birth.
Rape --> serious psychological trauma. (Though I do know some who argue that you shouldn't compound the wrong with another wrong).

marx, oh no!!! somebody who disagrees with your morals!!! quick, let's restrict her career options!!! how dare she support the current legal status of abortion (illegal unless a [serious] threat to the medical/psychological health of the mother)!!!

Most anti-choice advocates are against abortion at all levels and all reasons. They hold their beliefs in an often illogical and fanatical manner similar to a religious belief and will not listen to reason.

Lol... way to make a really well thought-out analysis of millions of people worldwide. I especially love how you avoided generalisations.

 

[el-retardo-6]

For all medical definitions, it's a parasite.

Right to tapeworms?

HAHA, nice thought.
thing is though, why do a group people have the right to determine whether or not a woman can make a desicion about her own body?
yea i know the foetus is a human being, and it has a right to live. and i know that there are a lot of people who beileve in this. what about the mother, does she not have a right to live?
just because a woman decideds to have a one night stand and for some reason or another didnt realise that the condom(or whatever) didnt work and a few months down the track finds herself to be pregnant doesnt she have the right to chose whether or not she wants to have 18 years of her life changed?
all im saying is that yea go head and believe whether or not you yourself would have an abortion, just dont make a desicion about other peoples beliefs.

 

[Calculon]

I'snt that a bit of a self serving definition; all left wing ideas disrespect the individual. I could just as easly say all right wing ideology is based on incest, ritualistic killings and sodomy.

It's entirely accurate to say that right wing ideology is based on individualism, while the left wing preaches collectivism. It's just that bshoc isn't right wing.

 

[Riet]

It's quite simple, each case is different and therefore a universal ban is stupid. It's not like Doctors are going to just terminate every pregnancy just because they legally can.

 

[jimmayyy]

For all medical definitions, it's a parasite.

Right to tapeworms?

qft

 

[jimmayyy]

@ the whole right/left debate

in theory if you support the government that is in power at the time, you are a rightest (not in favour of change), and if you disagree you are a leftist (want change). it comes from the french revolution when all the leaders met - those who wanted an ongoing revolution sat on the left of the room, those who wanted to stop it sat on the right. at the time, it had little to with specific policies or ideologies as it has come to mean today.

 

[Snaykew]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/index

gross oversimplification.

look at current right wing leaders ie. Howard, Bush. They are considered right wing yet have been intrumental in introducing anti-terrorism legislation and sedition laws that restrict individual freedom.

You'll find that extreme right wing and extreme left wing politics are basically the same except with a few minor differences.

Soviet Russia vs Nazi Germany.

Differences? No notable ones except the control of industry.

Similarities? Both used concentration/death camps for political prisoners. Both were one party states (basically a police state as well). Both had a personality cult of their leader. Both placed strong emphasis on nationalism.

As for the matter of abortion, one person has claimed that the foetus isn't part of the woman's body. If that's so, then she can choose to remove it from being inside her body. The foetus can try grow up elsewhere. But that's a weak argument to claim that a woman has no authority of what happens in her body.

If the woman wants abortion, why shouldn't she be allowed? One thing that comes to mind are rape victims. If a mother doesn't want a child, she shouldn't have it then. She is the one who has to go through intensive labour. She should decide if she wants to go through with that pain.

 

[Karl Marx]

GEORGE BUSH HATH TAKEN THINE TEST LET Me cite it in my academic paper (-1.05, 5.05)

 

[Snaykew]

iawtc. (even tho the first bit was just a summary of the link i posted)

I didn't click it.

 

[bshoc]

Most anti-choice advocates are against abortion at all levels and all reasons. They hold their beliefs in an often illogical and fanatical manner similar to a religious belief and will not listen to reason.

Anti-choice and proud of it, I'm against people having the choice to murder someone.

You're pro-death, hope you enjoy that label as much as I enjoy mine.

Your side is the irrational and fanatical one, you protect the right of someone to kill someone else, I protect the right of everyone to live.

 

[bshoc]

It's entirely accurate to say that right wing ideology is based on individualism, while the left wing preaches collectivism. It's just that bshoc isn't right wing.

What am I then?

 

[Snaykew]

In all honesty this should be a female only debate. Males have no say really as we don't actually experience any of the hardships associated with pregnancy.

 

[umop 3pisdn]

In all honesty this should be a female only debate. Males have no say really as we don't actually experience any of the hardships associated with pregnancy.

What about those females who will never fall pregnant?

 

[bshoc]

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but isn't the point of being left wing about respecting individuals?

Nope

Generally about those who aren't privileged in society, maybe minorities, but generally those that aren't rich and powerful. See their stance on women, homosexuals, minorities, lower classes, and so forth.

What stance is that? That somehow straight white males everywhere deserve to get 90% of the income diverted to everyone else? LOL

Radical social causes have nothing to do with indavidual freedom, you can't take away something someone doesen't have.

 

[bshoc]

In all honesty this should be a female only debate. Males have no say really as we don't actually experience any of the hardships associated with pregnancy.

Males have as much stake in the morality and survival of the human race .. and their children, as anyone else.