Languages (2 Viewers)

[yenta]

You're just crabby because Japanese will be very useless for you.

English is now the most popular language elective in Japanese schools. This means that a tonne (I'll dig up the statistics) or people slightly older than us (compulsary language in a year 12 level for them was only totally standardised recently). It would be good if you understood that business conversations will never be held with a Japanese person and yourself. There will always be a translator, even when you're out with them at night going to clubs and karaoke. This translator will always be Japanese, even if s/he's taken to Japan by your (non-Japanese) company.

So you're saying when I finish uni and go work in a Japanese company, my Japanese will be absolutely useless, and I will never use it? Sorry but I disagree, if that were true why did they design the fuckin degree I'm doing now...it's not like everyone Japanese person I talk to will speak English, and I highly doubt there will "always be a translator". So unless you have worked in a business dealing with Japanese people/Japan and know what it's like I find it very hard to believe you

 

[xeuyrawp]

So you're saying when I finish uni and go work in a Japanese company, my Japanese will be absolutely useless, and I will never use it? Sorry but I disagree, if that were true why did they design the fuckin degree I'm doing now...it's not like everyone Japanese person I talk to will speak English, and I highly doubt there will "always be a translator". So unless you have worked in a business dealing with Japanese people/Japan and know what it's like I find it very hard to believe you

You should have read enough of my posts to see that I don't make stupid claims.

If you think that doors will open up for you like they would for another language, you haven't done your research.

My time in Sony (although brief) has shown me that even the lowest of Non-English speaking Japs coming here will either bring over their company translator, bring an English-speaking secretary, or (rarely) hire a native Jap here. My workmates there have always told me to refrain from using any Japanese around them, as all the ones that came over were old-school and hated their precious language being peverted. Read: The old-school businessmen still have the subtle xenophobic characteristics that plague modern Japan.

When my father, once big in the business circle, worked for CSR, he spent a lot of time in Japan, and always noted that it was never necessary to bring along or hire a translator, as the Japanese would always insist on using their own.

My cousin graduated with a BA / LLB in Japanese from Sydney uni. After spending a year over there backpacking and teaching English, he came to the conclusion that for any foreigner, no matter how good their Japanese is, cannot secure any kind of real job over there and have the same kind of equality a Jap would here, nomatter what field. Despite his love for the language and the country, he's now working for a Law Firm. He couldn't get the kind of job that one would assume one could get after fluently speaking a language.

This is backed up by Tony Kehoe (from ebudo.com) the only foreigner I know who has a who actually got a job because 1. he speaks Japanese perfectly (his father got posted there in the army, and Tony was born there) and 2. doesn't use Japanese in his business life.

If you're disagreeing with me, but haven't talked to anyone that's worked over there, there's something wrong. Remember that Japanese is spoken IN ONE COUNTRY. They love their language. They are, implicitly and inwardly, the most patriotic people in the world, which manifests into the gaijin hate that is very common.

 

[yenta]

You should have read enough of my posts to see that I don't make stupid claims.

If you think that doors will open up for you like they would for another language, you haven't done your research.

My time in Sony (although brief) has shown me that even the lowest of Non-English speaking Japs coming here will either bring over their company translator, bring an English-speaking secretary, or (rarely) hire a native Jap here. My workmates there have always told me to refrain from using any Japanese around them, as all the ones that came over were old-school and hated their precious language being peverted. Read: The old-school businessmen still have the subtle xenophobic characteristics that plague modern Japan.

When my father, once big in the business circle, worked for CSR, he spent a lot of time in Japan, and always noted that it was never necessary to bring along or hire a translator, as the Japanese would always insist on using their own.

My cousin graduated with a BA / LLB in Japanese from Sydney uni. After spending a year over there backpacking and teaching English, he came to the conclusion that for any foreigner, no matter how good their Japanese is, cannot secure any kind of real job over there and have the same kind of equality a Jap would here, nomatter what field. Despite his love for the language and the country, he's now working for a Law Firm. He couldn't get the kind of job that one would assume one could get after fluently speaking a language.

This is backed up by Tony Kehoe (from ebudo.com) the only foreigner I know who has a who actually got a job because 1. he speaks Japanese perfectly (his father got posted there in the army, and Tony was born there) and 2. doesn't use Japanese in his business life.

If you're disagreeing with me, but haven't talked to anyone that's worked over there, there's something wrong. Remember that Japanese is spoken IN ONE COUNTRY. They love their language. They are, implicitly and inwardly, the most patriotic people in the world, which manifests into the gaijin hate that is very common.

In that case, I'll take your word for it. You seem to know what you're talking about But still, although you said Japanese will be useless I don't think that's the case, for me anyway. If I want to work here in Aus, maybe at the airport (thinking of aiming for a job there), would it not be the case that a second language would be preferable to just English? For example if you wanted to become a flight attendant it's a fact that they prefer people who speak a second language.

Oh and when I go travelling to Japan for leisure, my Japanese will also come in handy then

 

[xeuyrawp]

In that case, I'll take your word for it. You seem to know what you're talking about But still, although you said Japanese will be useless I don't think that's the case, for me anyway. If I want to work here in Aus, maybe at the airport (thinking of aiming for a job there), would it not be the case that a second language would be preferable to just English? For example if you wanted to become a flight attendant it's a fact that they prefer people who speak a second language.

Oh and when I go travelling to Japan for leisure, my Japanese will also come in handy then

Hey, well I'm doing Ancient History, how more useless could you get?

Just remember, though, that the culture of Japan is changing, so learning Japanese is becoming more and more useful as they are accepting that foreigners will want to learn their language

 

[quink]

Do German. Really. Even Chinese makes more sense than Japanese.

Contrast: Japanese with German

 

[xeuyrawp]

Do German. Really. Even Chinese makes more sense than Japanese.

Contrast: Japanese with German

The first link doesn't work.

It's really pointless when you don't justify or exemplify a generalised comment like "Chinese makes more sense than Japanese", which is plain wrong. I don't care about language being subjective, but Chinese is far, far harder to learn that Japanese. 1. Their words are incompatible with our writing system, so when you want to learn the words, you need to learn how to interpret the various Roman letters with accents etc. 2. Their writing system is the most complex out of any of the alive languages. Japanese makes more sense.

Coming from a Germanic-speaking family, where German is "easy", I'd still have to add that the first obstacle of learning kanji, katakana, and hiragana are just a minor obstacle. The next major one being learning the various verb forms, which I think requires a larger amount of rote-learning and studying. After that, it's smooth sailing IMO.

Anyway, this has been covered.

 

[hamsterMan]

Japanese is better cause its got better technology and stuff, so if u go there ur gonna have alot more fun. and the people r nicer and more well mannered. u dont want to be friends with natzies

 

[fleepbasding]

Japanese is better cause its got better technology and stuff, so if u go there ur gonna have alot more fun. and the people r nicer and more well mannered. u dont want to be friends with natzies

hmmm...

Thanks for the discussion people. It was very useful for one who's considering languages at UNI.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Japanese is better cause its got better technology and stuff, so if u go there ur gonna have alot more fun. and the people r nicer and more well mannered. u dont want to be friends with natzies

Although incredibly poorly put, that's an interesting point.

The "fun" value of a language shouldn't be underrated. Anime/manga, and other aspects of Japanese culture are fun, IMO.

 

[elisabeth]

And German, with winter markets, skiing traditions, Oktoberfest, rock music and Loveparade, doesn't have fun aspects of culture?

 

[xeuyrawp]

And German, with winter markets, skiing traditions, Oktoberfest, rock music and Loveparade, doesn't have fun aspects of culture?

Ugh, I wasn't saying that it doesn't. I was saying that Japanese does.