Lawyers and Doctors (1 Viewer)

[mimiian]

i was just browsing some law site, which had a link to IAHL. which i later found out stands for International Alliance of Holistic Lawyers.

i browsed through the site and discovered that it's an orgisation site which advocate that lawyers shouldn't just provide legal advices to clients, but also emotionally support them. thus the whole Holistic approach.

i can't say my impression was shock, but i was a bit iffy about their approach. my first thought was like: what's the point of therapist if we can do the jobs.

then i found a quote in the site by an US judge Warren Berger, "Doctors still retain a high degree of public confidence because they are perceived as healers. Should lawyers not be healers? Healers, not warriors? Healers, not procurers? Healers, not hired guns?"

so this got me into serious thinking, i was thinking "wouldn't it be nice if i am both a lawyer and a doctor?". according to my memory that the only uni in aust (and probably the whole world) which offers the combined degree of law AND med is Newcastle. i wonder how old they will be when they graduate.

this question of lawyers also as doctors who actually emotionally cure their clients as well as legally helping them was kept recurring in my mind. i virtually spent the whole afternoon pondering whether lawyers should also be therapists as well. i think it's my OCD at work again, sometimes thoughts just kept recurring in my head i just can't get rid of them. and if i can't reach a satisfied conclusion i will just kept thinking about it till the ocd fades off.

i am just wondering if anyone else ever thought of this question before. if you have what's ur opinion?

btw, i found a large number of arts and law students also have similar problems like mine. weird... er?

 

[_dhj_]

I don't think the idea of lawyers as therapists is meant to be literal. It's just the notion that lawyers should engage with clients on a more personal and empathetic basis - which ideally should apply for any profession that involves dealing with people. No-one advocates that lawyers should actually give clients professional therapy, so the idea of doing law/med for that purpose seems rather absurd.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Which one of these is medicine:

# Bachelor of Aboriginal Studies/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Arts (Communication Studies)/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Arts/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Business/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Commerce/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Communication/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Economics/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Finance/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Information Science/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Laws/Diploma of Legal Practice
# Bachelor of Science (Forensic)/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Science/Bachelor of Laws
# Bachelor of Social Science/Bachelor of Laws

Stop inventing degrees man.

 

[KFunk]

As far as I know Monash is the only uni offering a combined MBBS/LLB degree. It's a curious idea - I geuss it makes sense if you have strong interests in both areas. Alternatively it'd be useful if you wanted to go into something like an area of medical law or perhaps even health policy. It could also be handy if you wanted to be able to cover your ass as an obstetrician.

 

[hfis]

LLB/MBBS is cool, interesting, blah blah nothing against it, would do if smart enough etc.

However, I don't agree with lawyers showing more empathy towards clients. Yes, a little here and there is good (not making divorce jokes when in a custody dispute, for instance), but as officers of the Court lawyers are expected to be as objective as possible. If you are too empathic towards your client or their case, your objectivity becomes clouded; when your objectivity becomes clouded, how can you expect to make well thought out, rational decisions that will provide the best outcome?

Also, lawyers have the whole 'soulless demon with no feelings and a thirst to destroy people' stereotype going. It would be a shame to do away with such a well earned perception.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

As far as I know Monash is the only uni offering a combined MBBS/LLB degree. It's a curious idea - I geuss it makes sense if you have strong interests in both areas. Alternatively it'd be useful if you wanted to go into something like an area of medical law or perhaps even health policy. It could also be handy if you wanted to be able to cover your ass as an obstetrician.

they become medical administrators, medical indemnity or medical law solicitors... funny how few of them enter clinical medicine..

 

[Not-That-Bright]

LLB/MBBS is cool, interesting, blah blah nothing against it, would do if smart enough etc.

However, I don't agree with lawyers showing more empathy towards clients. Yes, a little here and there is good (not making divorce jokes when in a custody dispute, for instance), but as officers of the Court lawyers are expected to be as objective as possible. If you are too empathic towards your client or their case, your objectivity becomes clouded; when your objectivity becomes clouded, how can you expect to make well thought out, rational decisions that will provide the best outcome?

Also, lawyers have the whole 'soulless demon with no feelings and a thirst to destroy people' stereotype going. It would be a shame to do away with such a well earned perception.

That's not the way it is in the real world. In the real world, lawyers develop close personal relationships with their clients (basically friendships). I see you're a law student, so think about it... you're talking with your client, are you going to be empathetic/caring/understanding with them - or strictly objective?

 

[GoodToGo]

so this got me into serious thinking, i was thinking "wouldn't it be nice if i am both a lawyer and a doctor?"

How can you be both?? I guess it's theoretically possible if you work part-time in each profession. You can be a grad in both, but once you stop practising in either field, you're a former lawyer/doctor.

 

[turtleface]

Med/LLB is another one of those degrees to milk as much cash out of ppl as possible, just like BCom (actuarial)/LLB

people fail to realise that to actually become a lawyer or a doctor a degree is not enough, there are post graduate requirements, mentored work experience requirements, CPD etc.

ALso the thing about offering legal advice as a doctor is full of shit. its prohibited, since you are not a lawyer just cause you have a law degree (not to mention all the conflict of interest shit)

they become medical administrators, medical indemnity or medical law solicitors... funny how few of them enter clinical medicine..

it shows the mbbs becomes totally useless if thats the case. The only job I can think of that would remotely use both skill sets is a job as a Coroner. Even then, you'd have all these lawyers and doctors under you to do the technical stuff anyway.

 

[neo o]

It's interesting that you go to the ANU. Aren't first year law students currently writing an essay on "lawyers as healers" for their ethics class?

 

[El Misterio]

It's interesting that you go to the ANU. Aren't first year law students currently writing an essay on "lawyers as healers" for their ethics class?

Oh snap. And for an ethics class to boot.

At least it was a creative effort to get others to do the work, though the backstory is mildly ridiculous.

And beware quoting the late Chief Justice Burger approvingly; while he was an excellent administrator he's generally regarded as one of the poorer jurists (and 'legal minds') to serve on the modern Supreme Court.

 

[mimiian]

It's interesting that you go to the ANU. Aren't first year law students currently writing an essay on "lawyers as healers" for their ethics class?

oh no, my evil scheme has been exposed!!! yes, i do go to anu.

well, though i did write this post with the assignment on the back of my mind, but you got to admit that was a creative effort, and it did faciliate some discussions in this rather calm forum (discussion is always good). plus everything i said it's true, even the OCD part.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

plus everything i said it's true, even the OCD part.

I should hope so. One shouldn't turn OCD into something light by waving it around improperly. (DSMIV diagnosis is appropriate before claiming these things.)

 

[mimiian]

I should hope so. One shouldn't turn OCD into something light by waving it around improperly. (DSMIV diagnosis is appropriate before claiming these things.)

yes, every word is true. i have been diagnosed by psychiatrist and i am currently taking medication for it.

and no, i do not just turn OCD into something light by waving it around improperly. over the last few years i have been involved in the Mental Health Advocacy, Beyond Blue, as well as ADA (anxiety disorders alliance), i must say i am extremely frustrated and shocked over the facts that how ignorant most ppl are about mental illness. there are a lot of stigma and discrimination against mental illness. ppl think mentally illed person can't function properly or completely mad.

I am not proud of my OCD, but i feel no need to hide it cos i want to show them that mentally illed ppl are just like normal ppl around them everyday and we can enjoy life as much as anyone else.

by no mean i was making a mockery of OCDers, but i must admit some jokes about OCD can be somewhat funny.

How can you tell if there's an OCDer attending a Catholic church? ... There is soap near the Holy Water!

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Well that's good

A bit of advice though -- I wouldn't go telling everyone about it if you're entering the legal profession. As you say there is still quite a stigma about these things.

 

[mimiian]

well, it is true that there is stigma associates with mental illness, and that is the precise reason why we should seek to change these discriminations.

if justice Kirby of the high court felt no need to hide his homosexuality, i feel there is also no need for ppl with mental illness to hide their illness. of course, everything comes down to individual decision about hiding these things or not.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

well, it is true that there is stigma associates with mental illness, and that is the precise reason why we should seek to change these discriminations.

Sometimes the 'discriminations' have a justified basis, on a case by case assessment of each mentally ill person. As for homosexuality... that's different... I fail to see how homosexuality would necessarily affect his decision making capability however several mental illnesses would.

 

[mimiian]

well, clearly the discriminations i was talking about are bad discrimination, such as stigmatisation and groundless unprejudice.

i agree that sometimes discrimination is necessary, such as providing ramp for less mobile ppl, or treating multiple chemical sensitive (allergic) ppl with more care. but needlessly to say that sometimes discrimination can also be a bad thing.

btw, OCD does not affect one's thinking capacity.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

well, it is true that there is stigma associates with mental illness, and that is the precise reason why we should seek to change these discriminations.

Of course, but not at the risk of one's career.

btw, OCD does not affect one's thinking capacity.

True. And in fact the superior attention to detail can actually be a positive trait.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

if justice Kirby of the high court felt no need to hide his homosexuality, i feel there is also no need for ppl with mental illness to hide their illness. of course, everything comes down to individual decision about hiding these things or not.

Yes but that's all very well for Justice Kirby to say. He is a respected and established judge at the pinnacle of the legal profession and he is successful in all sorts of activities and fields, both at home and overseas.

For the normal gay person in today's society it would be far more difficult.