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lets open our minds people (3 Viewers)

Willobee

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Does anyone else feel like our country or even our world is simply closing off their minds to the beauty of diversity. I recently watched footage of everyday citizens from the north shore (not that this is directed at them specifically) discuss how a mosque would "not fit in this area" one man continued to say "it would be more suited to the western suburbs" this is an embarrassment. How could the people in a land of democracy become this close-minded. Within the last ten years it was a part of the liberal governments policy (promoting themselves) to refuse to allow same sex couples to adopt children. Where is the proof that same sex couples are any less of a parent than a heterosexual couples? I posted this here of all places because i believe it's our responsibility as students and scholars to be the ones to wake society up and begin to recognise the numerous minorities we pretend don't exist. All i want to know now is if there are people out there that feel the way i do. Rest assured friends my fight here is only just beginning.
 
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Doesn't celebrating diversity mean we have to accept racist/sexist/anti religious views? :<
 

davin

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no, of course not. diversity only means certain views that we like
 

iamsickofyear12

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Every time you hear of trouble in Sydney it is accompanied by the phrase 'of middle eastern appearance'. How can you then ask people to accept diversity.

And giving gay people kids is the last thing we need.
 

ihavenothing

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Fuck off, just because it is a religion doesn't mean its special its all bullshit.

Try seeing how we go if we put a gay club in Lakemba.
 

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snoozy_snewin said:
Um...hello! this is the north shore you're on about! you can't expect them to relate to "normal people" and have "normal" values when they've spent most of their lives living among upper-class snobs. (no offence). i live near the western suburbs, and that would not be a problem as there is so much cultural diversity. THOSE people will not and can not relate to the "other side"! shame on them.
You're a bit of a snob yourself - why else would you claim that Liverpool is near as opposed to within the western suburbs?
 

Mountain.Dew

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mmmmmm i there is a problem to opening up to the subtlies of the ethnic minorities. quite simply put, there is the issue of stereotyping.

i have written a blog article a year or so ago that might have relevance to this topic, basically a rant against discrimination...

only problem is that this blog article is rather more concerning Asians, rather than Muslims - which has been, and is, subject to hot topics for debate over these years. however, i do believe the same rational could apply.

=============================================

Discrimination in the Shadows...
03/03/2005

In this world of political correctness, we now know what to say and what not to say. We know know what is generally discriminatory and a form of bullying. We know know that all human beings, like you and me, are to be treated equally, that they can walk down the street without the fear of discrimination, racism or any form of verbal or physical abuse, backed up by government laws, but more, by the morals that govern our everyday behaviour and lifestyles.

However, in practicality, there is still a blur in the vision towards the achievement of equality for all people. Discrimination, believe it or not, still lurks in the shadows, still inflicting its effects upon the victims of discrimination, probably even more effectively than in the past, because people can get away with it. It is a sad thing, quite ironical in our politically correct world.

Let me give you an example. The term "Asians" is used quite a lot. It is immediate context, it describes a people that occupies the continent in the immediate east of Europe, and north of Australiasia. However, the term is used so loosely, so carelessly, that it has detrimental effects, and, most disasterously, used without the people using it knowing that it is discriminatory. We talk about Asian food, or Asian music, or Asian appearances...society, using Australian society as an example, simply cannot tell between the Chinese, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indonesians, the Thai, the Phillipino, etc...and so society just plonks them together in a group and calls them "Asians".

But, I give the argument about Europe. Both continents has equally diverse cultures, nations, religious beliefs, literature, to the likes of Asian countries, although there are similarities between these countries. However, Australian society is able to tell between who is German, or English, or French, or Spanish, or Italian, or Polish, etc...but in relative terms, to other continents, like Asia, like the Middle East, like Africa, like South America. For continents that have such unique aspects, why is it hard for Australian society, which is becoming more and more multicultural, finding it hard to tell the difference between countries in other regions than Europe and North America? I know that some people may argue that not all people use the term Asians as a form of discrimination, some people do genuinely use it to describe the people occuping the continent called "Asia", and that goes the same with "Europeans". But I say, a majority of generalised cases, that it has been used for the wrong reasons. I know people in my school that when I suddenly speak Chinese, then they say "OH! Speak Asian! Let me hear you speak Asian! Talk Asian!"...You ****heads (sorry, excuse my language) what language do you want? Chinese? Japanese? Korean? Indonesian? Malay? What? You see a "Lebbo" down the street, and probably your first reaction would be "terrorist". Fact is, not all "lebboes" are religious fundamentalists like most Islamic terrorists are.

I know in our school, and in many Australia schools, that people like to pay each other out. "Nerd" or "wog" or "you bloody idiot" or...whatever. People pay each other out, usually for fun, just for the experience at the time of an event. Usually, these pay outs wear out, they shrug it off, knowing that they where only joking and having a bit of a laugh. However, some people do go further to actually use this excuse to use racial discrimination against certain people. Someone would say something racist towards another person...not rather too offensive, but enough to get their attention, and the reply back would be a pat on the back and "jokes mate, jokes". But, imagine doing this everyday. It might just be a small comment during class, or during lunch. This "feeling", this atagonistic feeling that someone is peppering racist comments towards another over a long period of time will just accumulate and accumulate, slowly but surely. The thing is, if the person discriminated against suddenly lashes out against his offender, it seems that this guy is fussing over such a small thing, but clearly, we see, over a long period of time, its not. Yet the sad reality is, that no one understands but the person who is constantly been bombarded systematically and frequently by these seemingly small and insignificant pay outs that does a huge deal in the long run. It is a sad reality that people can seemingly get away with racist, discriminatory and unethical things.

Society needs to indentify this problem, firstly understand that this is having an adverse affect upon the religious and ethnic minorities in this world. We need to find mutual understandings between the major 'ruling' cultures, and the ones that have been placed in the shadows.


People, polio has been eliminated. Slavery has largely been very limited. Today, we do still have AIDS, poverty and war. But, if we are going to tackle these issues in a reasonable and logical manner, then we must tackle mainstream discrimination at its very heart - cold, corrupt and uninviting. The war has only begun.

======================================

The reply to that blog was thus:

I know what you mean. People DO excuse their own hurled insults with a "Jokes mate."

I am very interested in the contrast you show between how Australians find it easy to discriminate between people of European origin, but have difficulty with our 'Asian neighbours.' If you'll excuse the expression.

I would, however, like to offer an explanation. Differentiating between Europeans comes more naturally to me, being of European origin myself. Here is another parallel - Say for instance you have a lot of difficulty telling apart twins, the parents or friends of the twins have no trouble telling them apart because they know what characteristics to look for and they can recognise them.

It is the same situation here. Many Australians of European origin have not had the same exposure to people of Asian origin, as say for you. Take for instance people from country areas where there is a low Asian origin demographic. They would not have had much exposure to Asian origin persons of different nationality.

On your issue of telling apart languages - yes, I can tell apart French, German and English, because i have studied them at school, they have very distinctive characteristics (of which i am aware), and they have the same alphabet as English. I cannot tell apart different Asian languages because I do not know what to listen out for, and I have never studied an Asian language at school, and there is very little media exposure of them.

I am sure that you, like me, would have a lot of difficulty distinguishing between people of differing South American origin - or Eastern European origin for that matter. I cannot tell the difference between Czech, Latvian, Hungarian, Estonian, and Serbian languages.

People from this region, however, would feel the same as you, when branded with a generic "Some random Russian language" or something like that when they talk, or "Go on, speak some Russian."

You've opened a really interesting issue here <blog writer's name>.

I think Australia should adopt Asian studies as a compulsory course in early high school. Indonesian should be taught and greater awareness should be raised about the characteristics and qualities of our neighbours.

=====================

To which my, rather partial reply was:

Thank you <replier poster's name> for ur comment.

However, I would like to say that Australia IS SEEN as a increasingly more multicultural society, and that people, in essence, would have the responsibility to accept these new cultures, and to get to understand them. I think what we need more is not just realising this problem, but also understanding each other, understanding a different culture towards yours.

Ironically, the go is that the mainstream Anglo-Saxon society, instead of actually learning and understanding about different cultures in our 'salad bowl' of multiculturalism, they chose to refuse to have much interactions or relations with these people, and so it is hard, for mainstream European-decendants to identify and tell the difference between different Asian cultures and beliefs because people has refused to do so in the first place.

======================

speaks volumes...or does it...?
 
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nwatts

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I have a theory that humanity is inherently prejudice against difference. Not really an original one, but I hold to it. We'll never overcome problems of unfair discrimination unless we're united in a common cause. Ie, aliens attack = humanity gets efficient. I say this because you look at the complete lack of racial conflict during times of war (recently read over how Aboriginal soliders were treated normally during wwI, went back to being severely oppressed afterwards) when people are united on a common front.

Also mountain dew the link in your sig is broken. Might want to fix. :p
 
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xeuyrawp

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nwatts said:
I have a theory that humanity is inherently prejudice against difference. Not really an original one, but I hold to it. We'll never overcome problems of unfair discrimination unless we're united in a common cause. Ie, aliens attack = humanity gets efficient. I say this because you look at the complete lack of racial conflict during times of war (recently read over how Aboriginal soliders were treated normally during wwI, went back to being severely oppressed afterwards) when people are united on a common front.

Also mountain dew the link in your sig is broken. Might want to fix. :p
No, I think that in times of necessary unity, people have ignored race (and I say ignored liberally, look at the medial tasks Aborigines were assigned) because they know every bit of cannon fodder is needed.

If they truly got on, the Aborigines would have been absorbed into normal military troops, not put in their own.
 

nwatts

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I'd argue that the segregation within the army was a result of pre-war mindsets. It was more of a case that this was expected rather than a direct act of racial vilification. Considering how far we've come since then, I think if the same thing were to happen today, they'd be integrated alongside the masses normally.
 

taco man

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nwatts said:
I have a theory that humanity is inherently prejudice against difference. Not really an original one, but I hold to it. We'll never overcome problems of unfair discrimination unless we're united in a common cause. Ie, aliens attack = humanity gets efficient. I say this because you look at the complete lack of racial conflict during times of war (recently read over how Aboriginal soliders were treated normally during wwI, went back to being severely oppressed afterwards) when people are united on a common front.

Also mountain dew the link in your sig is broken. Might want to fix. :p
yah,
It all has to do with the society/culture we are brought up in, which is essentially based on the exclusion of ppl, which defines who we are. We will always be prejudiced in some way against 'outsiders' of that society as we do not understand or simply ignorant of them.

That said i believe education is the way to lead us to into the direction of openess and diversity. For example there are some extremely fucked up people that believe that you get aids from touching homsexual people/ or that you can stop being gay by hanging around the opposite sex or that all muslims are terrorists. More More education (perhaps at school?) not ignorance about such matters is the way to go.
 

walrusbear

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the 'diggers' died needlessly
i'm not sure what 'ideals' they died for...
why do you need dead soldiers (from nearly 100 years ago, i may add) to feel any sort of nationalism?
this country has no imagine when it comes to creating an identity

in regards to diversity, there are aforementioned innate human tendencies that make an ideal version of tolerance unachievable. what is most frustrating is an almost wilfull ignorance that exists for many australians.
 

Mountain.Dew

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nwatts said:
I have a theory that humanity is inherently prejudice against difference. Not really an original one, but I hold to it. We'll never overcome problems of unfair discrimination unless we're united in a common cause. Ie, aliens attack = humanity gets efficient. I say this because you look at the complete lack of racial conflict during times of war (recently read over how Aboriginal soliders were treated normally during wwI, went back to being severely oppressed afterwards) when people are united on a common front.

Also mountain dew the link in your sig is broken. Might want to fix. :p
thanx nwatts!

i guess my article WAS kinda useless...anyway, its there for everyone's interest.
 

davin

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politik, i think you hit on an element thats unique to only a few countries. Most nationalities have specific ethnic implications. French, Japanese, Nigerian, Saudi.... all of those have specific ethnic groups associated with it. While you could argue that there are small differences within, its generally pretty defining, even though, say, Europe is at this point working together with the EU, there are still those ethnic distinctions between countries that are often viewed strongly.

On the other hand, there are a handful of countries, such as Australia and America, that don't lack a specific ethnic identity at all (even with white majorities, not all whites are the same). These are countries where you weren't one by ancestory, but by simply either being born there, or going to the country and assimilating in and becoming part of it. It creates a system where there are two ways to label yourself..... either by who your ancestors were, or by where you currently are and what country you're a part of.
 

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The only reason I'm not going to rip the shit out of you playboy is for that last line, however contradictory to past posts of yours may be.

Australia doesn't have a "culture" in the same way other nations do. All we have is the "mateship" driven legacy of the Anzacs to fall on. Whether we continue as a culturally void nation or turn into jingoistic militants, only history will tell. What I do think, though, is that government-sanctioned multiculturalism pushes us backwards in terms of shaping a culturally-specific identity. Because, essentially, it is useless to have an identity in the "unification" of other extremely dominant cultures.
 

tempco

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So they're rejecting a proposal for a mosque because it "wouldn't fit in"?
 

nwatts

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politik said:
Which is what I was trying to say (I think). While i've said that Australia doesn't have a 'culture' before - I believe its because its a much larger thing - ie, we dont have anything that defines us because we havn't really been around that long. But its stuff like that said "mateship" that defines the country as a whole. And i'm extremely proud to be associated with that.
It's not that we haven't been around for that long. America isn't much older than we are, and look how incredibly strong and dominant their culture is.

In my view the growth of culture in America is two fold -
  • Insularity breeds identity. America essentially closed itself from the entire world following the Civil War, which basically meant it was entirely self sustainable. Having been shut off from imports means that they'll find their own way to do things - from which comes an identity attached to their methods of sustainability.
  • War of independence. They fought to be a separate nation from Britain. It was for purely economic reasons that it began, but it escalted to a huge conflict that people associate with "freedom."

We have had neither of these in any way, shape or form.
 

Captain Gh3y

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davin said:
On the other hand, there are a handful of countries, such as Australia and America, that don't lack a specific ethnic identity at all (even with white majorities, not all whites are the same). These are countries where you weren't one by ancestory, but by simply either being born there, or going to the country and assimilating in and becoming part of it. It creates a system where there are two ways to label yourself..... either by who your ancestors were, or by where you currently are and what country you're a part of.
Though Australia is something like 91% white, while America is more like 60%...

Anyway, if Australia doesn't have a culture in the sense that other nations do, perhaps this is for the best. There seems to be no shortage of people being proud of being Australian (most notably with respect to sports) but the lack of some unique culture different from that anywhere else in the world could be a good thing. Look where "cultures" got the Balkans.
 
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Not-That-Bright

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Does anyone else feel like our country or even our world is simply closing off their minds to the beauty of diversity.
Sometimes I feel like cool buzzwords have taken over our country.

I recently watched footage of everyday citizens from the north shore (not that this is directed at them specifically) discuss how a mosque would "not fit in this area" one man continued to say "it would be more suited to the western suburbs" this is an embarrassment.
Yes we should all be accepting of mosques, anywhere, anytime... I mean it's religious keke. Anyway, I have no problem with them building a mosque on the north shore, but the guy might just have a point... how many muslims live in the area?

How could the people in a land of democracy become this close-minded.
It's quite easy, really.

Within the last ten years it was a part of the liberal governments policy (promoting themselves) to refuse to allow same sex couples to adopt children. Where is the proof that same sex couples are any less of a parent than a heterosexual couples?
There's no proof, it's a moral thing. It's like 'where's the proof that there's anything wrong with beastiality!'... anyway I've got no problem with same sex couples adopting, but surely you can see that it's about morals?

I posted this here of all places because i believe it's our responsibility as students and scholars to be the ones to wake society up and begin to recognise the numerous minorities we pretend don't exist.
What do you mean... we pretend don't exist? I mean I can understand if you said like 'the numerous minorities we don't look after' but pretend don't exist? This just seems like rhetoric filled with more buzzwords like 'minorities', 'democracy', 'close-minded', 'diversity'... the usual thing we hear in most year 10 speeches. Anyway, you singled out people from the north shore, showed how they hate the western suburbs... and assumed that's not just as bad as someone from the north shore saying 'all those western sydney people think we're poshy jerks' or whatever...

edit: haha i'd only read the first post, now I found a perfect example.
Um...hello! this is the north shore you're on about! you can't expect them to relate to "normal people" and have "normal" values when they've spent most of their lives living among upper-class snobs. (no offence). i live near the western suburbs, and that would not be a problem as there is so much cultural diversity. THOSE people will not and can not relate to the "other side"! shame on them.
lolz.

In conclusion,
I don't like you.
 

ihavenothing

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On the issue of tolerance and religion, why does one religion have to be considered as being part of an ethnic group, anyone can choose to be a Muslim.
tempco said:
So they're rejecting a proposal for a mosque because it "wouldn't fit in"?
Yes, and it would be a complete waste of time as land there is FUCKING expensive, the people there would lobby for its removal, and I have NEVER seen a bitch in a headscarf or are aware of any living in that area. There is a tiny mosque in Dee Why, but its congregation are mainly Indonesian and Aussie converts.
 

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