Level of Maths for Commerce/Business and general questions (1 Viewer)

[14]

Hi, I'm a year 12 student (2014) and have been thinking about doing something at university in the Business area once I finish. I'm not sure if its right for me but Business Studies is by far my favourite subject and I'm just going off that. I'm just a bit unsure on the level of maths required. I currently do General Mathematics and although I always pass I've never done very well mathematically. I found the Finance topic of year 12 Business Studies mathematically to be really easy and I didn't have any problems with it at all, but it was just putting numbers into forumulas and subtraction and addition. I had a look at UNSW, USYD and UTS and they all have Mathematics as the assumed knowledge, with only Macquarie University and University of Wollongong having General Mathematics and in the case of Wollongong just English as assumed knowledge. I'm wondering just how much I'd struggle having only done General Mathematics if I was to go to UNSW, USYD or UTS?

I've heard a lot of people say that Finance and Accounting are the only 2 Business related areas worth doing as a major. I liked the Business Studies Finance topic because its not like the others as much where you're just memorizing concepts but applying them and making recommendations based upon it, but as I said I'm not sure how I'd go with only General Mathematics. Just how mathematically intensive is Finance at university?

I'm also not sure about Accounting seeing as its not in the HSC Business Studies curriculum. Again how mathematically intensive is it? I know UTS has an Accounting degree which focuses just on that, if I found out I enjoyed Accounting would I have screwed myself over by doing something with more variety like Commerce/Business degree? I know you can choose which major to do and have choice but its obviously not as specialized as something like that.

Thanks.

 

[Chronost]

Hi, I'm a year 12 student (2014) and have been thinking about doing something at university in the Business area once I finish. I'm not sure if its right for me but Business Studies is by far my favourite subject and I'm just going off that. I'm just a bit unsure on the level of maths required. I currently do General Mathematics and although I always pass I've never done very well mathematically. I found the Finance topic of year 12 Business Studies mathematically to be really easy and I didn't have any problems with it at all, but it was just putting numbers into forumulas and subtraction and addition. I had a look at UNSW, USYD and UTS and they all have Mathematics as the assumed knowledge, with only Macquarie University and University of Wollongong having General Mathematics and in the case of Wollongong just English as assumed knowledge. I'm wondering just how much I'd struggle having only done General Mathematics if I was to go to UNSW, USYD or UTS?


I've heard a lot of people say that Finance and Accounting are the only 2 Business related areas worth doing as a major. I liked the Business Studies Finance topic because its not like the others as much where you're just memorizing concepts but applying them and making recommendations based upon it, but as I said I'm not sure how I'd go with only General Mathematics. Just how mathematically intensive is Finance at university?

I'm also not sure about Accounting seeing as its not in the HSC Business Studies curriculum. Again how mathematically intensive is it? I know UTS has an Accounting degree which focuses just on that, if I found out I enjoyed Accounting would I have screwed myself over by doing something with more variety like Commerce/Business degree? I know you can choose which major to do and have choice but its obviously not as specialized as something like that.

Thanks.

K well firstly the business studies finance is nothing like the finance in university, it might be one chapter in the introduction to finance book out of like 12 chapters. If you can get a band 6 in general mathematics then you should be ok doing finance in University with the less quantative subjects and you'll just need to put in more study to learn some concepts then everyone else, however it's doable. Accounting is just simple addition/division/subtraction/mutiply, there's probably nothing that you can't do in terms of maths in an accounting major.

The universities have different requirements but they all pretty much teach the same concepts(at least the 4 major universities in Sydney), so don't worry too much about that.

Accounting and finance are the most popular combination however that doesn't rule out the other majors in any way,economic/human resources/marketing are all still viable majors however getting jobs related to them are just that much harder. Finance is very competitive these days. Accounting is still the most viable major if you want a safety back-up and a stable job with good a rate of employment,however it's not for everyone.

In terms of UTS having an accounting degree, that accounting degree is Co-op degree, in that you must do interviews and application to get in, and it's a specialised program to fast-track you into accounting, you can't just enter through UAC with an ATAR. It's basically a commerce degree that speeds-up your completion rate and gives you relevant work experience,in terms of specialising in university it doesn't do it anymore then a normal business degree.

 

[Crobat]

In terms of UTS having an accounting degree, that accounting degree is Co-op degree, in that you must do interviews and application to get in, and it's a specialised program to fast-track you into accounting, you can't just enter through UAC with an ATAR. It's basically a commerce degree that speeds-up your completion rate and gives you relevant work experience,in terms of specialising in university it doesn't do it anymore then a normal business degree.

Note that this is because the Accounting degree is a Business degree with an Accounting major from your first year, where as if you were doing the straight business degree, you would be choosing your majors in your second year.

Also don't forget that Accounting degree is like a 46k scholarship

Most of the graduates of the Accounting degree go on to get into the Big 4 Accounting firms on graduation (pretty sure most go to PwC since they have such a huge presence on campus) but that's not to say if you were to do an ordinary business/commerce degree at UTS/UNSW/USYD you can't do the same. The difference is just that you might have less practical experience (and obviously that you weren't paid 46k during the course of your study).

 

[14]

Note that this is because the Accounting degree is a Business degree with an Accounting major from your first year, where as if you were doing the straight business degree, you would be choosing your majors in your second year.

Also don't forget that Accounting degree is like a 46k scholarship

Most of the graduates of the Accounting degree go on to get into the Big 4 Accounting firms on graduation (pretty sure most go to PwC since they have such a huge presence on campus) but that's not to say if you were to do an ordinary business/commerce degree at UTS/UNSW/USYD you can't do the same. The difference is just that you might have less practical experience (and obviously that you weren't paid 46k during the course of your study).

Fair enough. Well I didn't do Accounting Studies so I wouldn't want to commit myself to something like that without having any idea of what its like of course. I think a Commerce degree would probably be best then until I get more of an idea. Good point about Finance being different at Uni, I didn't really think of that.

The University of Sydney, University of Technology Sydney and University of Wollongong are the closest to me in terms of how long it would take to travel there and back which is an important things for me. I know USYD and UNSW are considered more "prestigious", are any really significantly better for a Commerce degree? I think I could probably expect an ATAR in the mid/high 80s if I kept up how I'm going now, should I just go for whoever has the highest ATAR?
I'm a pretty quiet person and would prefer somewhere which isn't super busy/crowded and as bad as it sounds isn't "super-social" if that makes sense, what are the demographics of each Uni like too?

Thanks!

 

[Crobat]

Fair enough. Well I didn't do Accounting Studies so I wouldn't want to commit myself to something like that without having any idea of what its like of course. I think a Commerce degree would probably be best then until I get more of an idea. Good point about Finance being different at Uni, I didn't really think of that.

The University of Sydney, University of Technology Sydney and University of Wollongong are the closest to me in terms of how long it would take to travel there and back which is an important things for me. I know USYD and UNSW are considered more "prestigious", are any really significantly better for a Commerce degree? I think I could probably expect an ATAR in the mid/high 80s if I kept up how I'm going now, should I just go for whoever has the highest ATAR?
I'm a pretty quiet person and would prefer somewhere which isn't super busy/crowded and as bad as it sounds isn't "super-social" if that makes sense, what are the demographics of each Uni like too?

Thanks!

Well you don't have to constrain yourself to Accounting just because you have an accounting degree! I know a lot of people doing that Co-op program who dislike accounting and will be trying to get themselves into the tax & legal/assurance/private clients departments of companies using the work experiences gained from their placements in the industry. As a graduate you are still pretty flexible provided you're able to find experience in something else. I had a friend ask to switch departments of the company he was placed in and they let him do it. Your life won't be constrained into Accounting with the Accounting Co-op, just like your job prospects aren't going to be solely constrained to your choice of major. It'll just be harder to get a job in say Finance with a major like Accounting, but some people do it. Others also graduate into a job like Accounting and internally transfer into a different department of the company to work in. The main point I'm just trying to convey here is that you aren't limited to your choice of major when you graduate, and there are always options open to you to work in something else. It's just easier to get a job in a field where you major is relevant.

As for choice of uni - significantly better for a commerce degree? No. Yes UNSW/USYD are considered more prestigious but the variables between the unis are usually in the teaching style. As part of the UTS Business Society Careers team I work alongside the recruiting team of our sponsors (this year we have the Big 4 Accounting - Deliotte, PwC, EY, KPMG - as well as companies like CBA, CPA, and CA) and they unanimously use the term "Big 4 unis" to describe UTS/UNSW/USYD/MQ which they all endeavour to have a presence on. Your career prospects aren't limited by going to one uni over another as your value to the company is in you as a person and not the university you come from. The variables the recruiting team place emphasis on are your academic records (not highly important), your past work experiences, your extra-curricular activities, your demonstrated initiative and ability to work autonomously, your communication skills, and also partly your personality (there's more but I'm just speaking generally, enoilgam can tell you more about how HR does recruitment). Recruitment is more about finding the best person to fit the company's values and culture than it is about the person with the highest grades from the most prestigious university. Your ability to be an appealing graduate will come down to what you make out of your university experience and the opportunities that come about.

I think it's worthwhile visiting the uni open days to determine the order of your preferences. You don't need to put them in order of ATAR. For example, I put UTS Bus/Law as my 1st preference and UNSW Comm/Law as my 2nd because I found UTS to be a better fit as a university for me, and I have never regretted it since. It should be ordered in order of dream course and uni than ATAR. If you don't want somewhere super busy/crowded, UTS is probably for you. Not having one single campus means that on days you just want to be alone and study you can be because you don't generally run into a lot of people as everyone is spread out across the city. Of course, that's a negative on days you do want to be social. My experience of UTS is that everyone is friendly and approachable (should be the same at the other unis) and that the demographic of UTS is quite balanced. There's no abundance of a particular demographic around the campus, but it may be a different story respective of your degree. Generally speaking, business you may find has a greater asian demographic (but I don't tend to notice this much, I find it to be quite balanced) where as communications might have a larger western demographic (this is more noticeable).

 

[enoilgam]

Just how mathematically intensive is Finance at university?

I would recommend doing 2U maths for either Finance or Economics, because there are some higher level maths concepts in these majors. Accounting is a little bit easier, as it's mostly just basic maths (i.e. the operations and formula work). As Chronost has pointed out though, if you do well in General, you can catch up with a little extra work.

I've heard a lot of people say that Finance and Accounting are the only 2 Business related areas worth doing as a major.

I dont think so - these majors are probably the most practical, but literally every man and his dog does them and the field is incredibly competitive and difficult to break into unless you are on top of your game in terms of building your employability.

Accounting and finance are the most popular combination however that doesn't rule out the other majors in any way,economic/human resources/marketing are all still viable majors however getting jobs related to them are just that much harder.

The issue with majors like HR/Management/Marketing is breaking into the industries. Most graduate programs are aimed at accounting/finance graduates, so you can break into them with little or no industry experience. In contrast, there are few graduate opportunities available for HR and marketing and most entry level positions require experience. However, there are significantly less graduates in these areas, so it kind of balances out.

In marketing and HR though, there are an abundance of jobs available once you have your foot in the door in terms of experience. I'm a HR major personally with a years worth of industry experience and there are heaps of jobs out there. However, if I didnt have that experience, I would struggle to find HR work and I'd probably need to find an admin job and work my way into HR from there.

The variables the recruiting team place emphasis on are your academic records (not highly important), your past work experiences, your extra-curricular activities, your demonstrated initiative and ability to work autonomously, your communication skills, and also partly your personality (there's more but I'm just speaking generally, enoilgam can tell you more about how HR does recruitment). Recruitment is more about finding the best person to fit the company's values and culture than it is about the person with the highest grades from the most prestigious university. Your ability to be an appealing graduate will come down to what you make out of your university experience and the opportunities that come about.

Pretty much spot on in terms of recruitment - in terms of graduates, companies are looking for well rounded graduates who are the best fit for the organisation and role. Any HR professional worth their salt will tell you that "uni prestige" is near worthless in determining the strength of a graduate. Since recruitment is run mostly by HR these days, it's a near non-factor (to be honest, even marks are losing their value, which I dont agree with). However, if non-HR people or "old boy" managers have a significant amount of say in recruitment, then prestige may factor in to some degree (this is more common in law, but to be honest, any business who discriminates on the basis of prestige doesnt have a clue what they are doing).

 

[14]

Thanks for your recommendations guys, I'm not sure about committing to something like the UTS degree because I've never really had any experience with Accounting before. I had a look at the Bachelor of Accounting and Financial Services offered at University of Wollongong at the Sydney campus which sounds a bit more varied but I'm still not 100% sure. Does anyone know much about it? The only assumed knowledge is English which makes me a bit more confident in my abilities w/ coping with the maths.

A Commerce/Business degree sounds like the safest option since I'm not 100% sure what I want to do when I finish and wouldn't want to get locked down into something specialized like the Accounting or Accounting and Financial Services degrees? What do you guys think?

 

[BLIT2014]

Thanks for your recommendations guys, I'm not sure about committing to something like the UTS degree because I've never really had any experience with Accounting before. I had a look at the Bachelor of Accounting and Financial Services offered at University of Wollongong at the Sydney campus which sounds a bit more varied but I'm still not 100% sure. Does anyone know much about it? The only assumed knowledge is English which makes me a bit more confident in my abilities w/ coping with the maths.

A Commerce/Business degree sounds like the safest option since I'm not 100% sure what I want to do when I finish and wouldn't want to get locked down into something specialized like the Accounting or Accounting and Financial Services degrees? What do you guys think?

From what my understanding is, accounting is quite versatile as it has so many different pathways even if you decide you don't want to become an accountant afterwards. I think it would be better to specialise or do a combined degree then just a straight out commerce degree as their are so many straight commerce degree graduates.

 

[14]

From what my understanding is, accounting is quite versatile as it has so many different pathways even if you decide you don't want to become an accountant afterwards. I think it would be better to specialise or do a combined degree then just a straight out commerce degree as their are so many straight commerce degree graduates.

Fair enough, I don't think I'd qualify for the UTS Accounting Co-Op, is the UOW Accounting and Financial Services degree specialized enough? Is Financial Services just the same as Finance? It only takes 40 people each year while the UTS takes 30, so its quite competitive? I can't find a whole lot of info about it.

 

[crazy_paki123]

Why dont you do a Bachelors in Business/Commerce and pick say accounting and finance as majors. If you dont like the you can change them easily. Thats the beauty about uni, so much flexibility. Generally from what ive heard, finance, economics and statistics(i think goes with econ in uni's like usyd) are the more mathsy type subjects, accounting is minimal maths, and subjects like HR, marketing, management require good writing skills as they require a fair few essays and group tasks (well for MQ anyway).

 

[Crobat]

Thanks for your recommendations guys, I'm not sure about committing to something like the UTS degree because I've never really had any experience with Accounting before. I had a look at the Bachelor of Accounting and Financial Services offered at University of Wollongong at the Sydney campus which sounds a bit more varied but I'm still not 100% sure. Does anyone know much about it? The only assumed knowledge is English which makes me a bit more confident in my abilities w/ coping with the maths.

A Commerce/Business degree sounds like the safest option since I'm not 100% sure what I want to do when I finish and wouldn't want to get locked down into something specialized like the Accounting or Accounting and Financial Services degrees? What do you guys think?

You seem to be worried about how specialised the degrees are because you haven't had much exposure to the subjects yet. Let me just say that it shouldn't be a worry because you're not expected to have exposure to those subjects yet, and the university courses are all structured around the assumption that you haven't. The "assumed knowledge" of English and/or Mathematics isn't really important as the assumption is pretty much equivalent to you being able to write a sentence and do basic arithmetic (unless it is assumed 3u Math knowledge for something like an engineering degree). What I am pretty much saying is that the university will teach you what you will need to be specialised in those majors and start by assuming you haven't had exposure to the subjects. Not having been exposed to certain subjects shouldn't be something that discourages you from taking a specific degree. I didn't do business studies or economics in HSC and am still doing a Business degree at UTS, just like some students not having taken legal studies and are doing a law degree.

 

[seremify007]

It's also worth emphasising that longer term, what you studied in uni becomes very irrelevant. If you look at many other sophisticated markets (e.g. UK), most people study something totally unrelated at university to what they end up doing for a graduate job. Success in gaining and maintaining employment is more about your behaviours and personality than it is about how specialised your degree was.

 

[14]

Thanks for your responses guys, helps a lot really appreciate it! Do any of you know anything about the UOW Accounting and Financial Services degree on the Sydney campus I mentioned earlier? I can't find out much about it, is it any good? It seems to only take in a small amount of people each year (40) like the UTS Accounting Co-op which is appealing to me, thanks.