Luxury Car Tax rejected! (2 Viewers)

[Enteebee]

Oh sick man, attack me because you don't agree. I'm a nationalist hill-billy because I think our 40 year old F-111s should be replaced? Cool story hansel.

Remember what your original claim was. Orginally you said you think our military budget should be on par with NATO countries then gave Frace, Germany, Italy and the UK as comparative examples (I don't imagine you meant for instance Luxemburg). I think that such a policy is either irrational or misinformed as it would likely lead to a war with one of our close neighbours.

Yeh, I guess those vietcong were such funloving guys too.

The US propped up a puppet government out of fear of communism. This stopped the possibility of there being a peaceful resolution to the conflict between the north and south and then the US escalated the conflict as their own pet macho project killing hundreds of thousands of people in the process and to what end? The same evil Vietcong run the government of Vietnam now... We go on holidays there... You can buy coca-cola and get a massage, they mean no ill towards any of us.

 

[Riet]

Remember what your original claim was. Orginally you said you think our military budget should be on par with NATO countries then gave Frace, Germany, Italy and the UK as comparative examples (I don't imagine you meant for instance Luxemburg). I think that such a policy is either irrational or misinformed as it would likely lead to a war with one of our close neighbours.

Yeh, increase the budget. What the fuck do you think replacing archaic planes and tanks requires? Hint: It's not not spending money. Which one of our neighbours is going to attack us because we increase military spending?

 

[jb_nc]

Every developed country sees the need to fund defence properly but I'm irrational... sick logic there..

"properly" is completely objective. for example, i think $5 is properly. argument destroyed.

 

[Riet]

how to do it: defending the vietnam war itt.

next try to defend european colonisation of africa/australia/the americas.

Oh cool, I forgot which country we were in, care to remind me? It's cool to reap the benefits of living in a western country such as proper education (including more or less free tertiary education) but then you question the morality of how the country was founded in the first place? Who knows how the world would be different if it weren't for European settlement but with huge population growth in Eurasia since Australia and the Americas were obviously going to be conquered by someone.

 

[Enteebee]

Increase the budget.... to the level of NATO countries such as France etc etc etc....

Malaysia... Indonesia perhaps? If Malaysia ramped up its military to the level of spending of France and would not listen to our diplomatic calls for them to stop increasing such a military I would probably have to support the idea that Australia should strike while it can.

 

[Riet]

"properly" is completely objective. for example, i think $5 is properly. argument destroyed.

If it weren't for the Australian military stabalizing the region most of the pacific would be fucked twice as hard as it is anyway.

 

[jb_nc]

Oh cool, I forgot which country we were in, care to remind me? It's cool to reap the benefits of living in a western country such as proper education (including more or less free tertiary education) but then you question the morality of how the country was founded in the first place? Who knows how the world would be different if it weren't for European settlement but with huge population growth in Eurasia since Australia and the Americas were obviously going to be conquered by someone.

lol

you are a huge nationalist. HOW DARE I QUESTION THE MORALITY OF THE FOUNDATION OF THIS COUNTRY.

It was there for the taking!!! Hello John Locke.

 

[jb_nc]

If it weren't for the Australian military stabalizing the region most of the pacific would be fucked twice as hard as it is anyway.

Oh, ok.

I thought the evil Nation X conquers were coming to get our delectable resources so we needed to spend as much as Germany on our military to prevent this.

Now, it's about our military stabilising the Pacific region which you didn't mention as a possible reason for increase military expenditure in your posts.

 

[Riet]

Australia's military budget is already 4 times Indonesia's and 13 times Malaysia's. Why don't they increase their budgets to be inline right now? Why haven't they attacked us in the past when their have been tensions between the three of us?

 

[Riet]

Oh, ok.

I thought the evil Nation X conquers were coming to get our delectable resources so we needed to spend as much as Germany on our military to prevent this.

Now, it's about our military stabilising the Pacific region which you didn't mention as a possible reason for increase military expenditure in your posts.

Well, I just said to increase it now I'm elaborating. I'm not nationalistic at all, I can't stand the backward thinking that seems to be inherent in Australian culture. I would like to move as soon as I can afford to.

 

[Riet]

lol

you are a huge nationalist. HOW DARE I QUESTION THE MORALITY OF THE FOUNDATION OF THIS COUNTRY.

It was there for the taking!!! Hello John Locke.

You can question it as much as you want, but it's a moot point.

 

[jb_nc]

You can question it as much as you want, but it's a moot point.

Then so is the fact that the Vietnam War was a huge disaster.

Well, I just said to increase it now I'm elaborating. I'm not nationalistic at all, I can't stand the backward thinking that seems to be inherent in Australian culture. I would like to move as soon as I can afford to.

Pumping up military spending because of paranoia is not progressive.

 

[Farfour]

- the armed forces
- state governments
- sporting investment
- drug prohibition

I agree with this post. Keep the arts because we need to culture the bogans.

 

[Farfour]

lol

you are a huge nationalist. HOW DARE I QUESTION THE MORALITY OF THE FOUNDATION OF THIS COUNTRY.

It was there for the taking!!! Hello John Locke.

You're a bit of a cunt, aye

 

[Enteebee]

Australia's military budget is already 4 times Indonesia's and 13 times Malaysia's. Why don't they increase their budgets to be inline right now? Why haven't they attacked us in the past when their have been tensions between the three of us?

The question is how much force a nation has vs their desire to use that force. Australia is a prosperous nation in its own right and we don't really pose a huge risk to our neighbours anyway so our military which does not have the power to invade any of these countries is of little worry to them. If however we start building up our military closer to a point where we could conceivable conquer them they will probably go "hey man, why are you doing that?" and if we just say "for our security" they'll be like "oh cool, who you scared of?" then when we say "you" they might just might consider building up their own military.

Who wins in any of this? Meanwhile less money is going to the betterment of the lives of the citizens of Australia so we can protect ourselves in the event of some fantasy invasion that we have no reason to suspect. You seem to be arguing somewhat against yourself... on the one hand we need to build up our military to prevent attacks from resource-greedy nations in the future but on the other hand we have no need to fear retaliations from our neighbours in regard to such a military buildup. If they pose no thread then why the build up?

If you are proposing we should boost our military incase a future China, India, Russia, USA or UK invade us I wonder what planet you're on. Maybe you should further elaborate further on this fantasy scenario you've concocted so that we can consider whether it's worth it. I want to know which country is going to invade us for resources and I want to know how buying new planes/tanks is going to stop this.

 

[BackCountrySnow]

I agree with this post. Keep the arts because we need to culture the bogans.

Bogans are a vital part of Australian culture. =]

 

[scarybunny]

Riet just plays Risk.

 

[F2001]

Cheaper (newer) cars are generally smaller and lower emitters though, aren't they?

If luxury cars were mostly hybrids, electrics or whatever then I'd be totally opposed to any tax on them, btw.

Cheaper cars tend do be half the weight and have half the cylinders...

What does it take to make a hybrid?

BMW 5 series?? Audi A6....they have pretty efficient engines for their size...pretty sure they are over 58k too...

have to note here though...that i place my car's order before the tax came into effect (i.e. before dealers could charge it up front)...just still think it's not the best thought out tax...

90K+ cars easily

An A6 with the 2.7T or S4 with 2.7TT, now theres a massive emitter to make the environmentalists upset haha.

Also, this talk about specific cars and their prices and fuel efficiency is painful.

If you want to tax high emission vehicles, tax them based on emissions not price. Or better still, just increase the excise on fuels. Not saying we should or we shouldn't but its irrelevant. The tax is arbitrary and not the most effective way of achieving any of its purported benefits.

Agree to an extent. But Mr Swan is in charge....
They already got the guzzler tax in USA for ages why not something similar here. Maybe because the SS Commy's and HSVs can't necessarily meet it...
The biggest mistake they could do is hurt domestically made car sales.

 

[Rafy]

The tax increase was passed by the Parliament today.

It is the same bill as before, with amendments to exempt primary producers, tourist operators and fuel-efficent cars from the increase.