Merlin... again (3 Viewers)

[charmed_cuties]

different peopl have different ways and methods of getting things across to the people and i guess he chose to do it on live tv
the second time round of protesting may be seen as a bit weird, but hey he seems to enjoy protesting abt issues in society
i seriously don't think there is much to criticise abt him

 

[crazyhomo]

its a pity that we spend so much time dwelling on this when there are so many more imporatant issues.... war being one of them. terrorism, another.

i thought refugees were terrorists? that's why we can't let them into the country, right?

 

[400miles]

sigh... this is so another endless argument that will never be won.

I think a lot of the stuff said here's been crap and mostly the point of view I don't agree with is Twistedd.... but I'm not going to argue this because I don't think it can be argued in a way that will finish it...

What I would like to say though is that an apology does not necessarily lead to 'bulldozing 300 years of development' in order to give the land back... the way I see it is that Aboriginals were treated VERY unfairly and deserve an apology... after that what we have to work to is reconciliation and most importantly, unity... trying to come together as Australians, not Aboriginals and Whites....

I've met (and actually am friends with) a lot of 'white' people who seem to see Aboriginals as another race... One of them said 'Why don't Aboriginals just go get a job, then they wont be poor' (or something ridiculous like that). It took half a second for everyone to jump on her and tell her that unemployed problems belong to all races not just Aborginals.

I also went to an Aboriginal Reconciliation lecture at a social justice night run by an Aboriginal woman who kept talking like Aboriginals vs. Whites, or Aboriginals vs. the Police. Now, I understand that the Aboriginals have been victimised by both whites and police but the point I'm trying to make here is that on both sides it seems to be an "Us versus them" game and I think until we get rid of this notion we'll never move forward.

 

[nerd2die4]

if aboriginals are australians, then why dont we just call them australians? there are a part of our country, and we all want to be unified so i think they should just becalled australians.

 

[CM_Tutor]

we were discussing that last session and for what it's worth... prue vines (unsw legal academic) says that john howard saying 'sorry' wouldn't be enough for people to litigate against the government

she said the prime minister's statements and the legal personality of australia are two seperate things, and that people use that argument as a scare tactic

True - but many won't believe such a statement, as it does not support their pre-existing viewpoint.

After all, the Solicitor General was asked in a Senate Estimate hearing whether it would be possible to frame a form of words that would constitute an apology without creating liability. His response was that it would be possible - and he went on to confirm that he had not been asked to come up with such a form of words.

My point is that Howard well knew that the litigation argument is untrue, and unsupportable, but he also knew that most would not question it.

 

[owoodley]

I have no time for him.
QUOTE]

And I think you will find people in life will have no time for you. The reason people like you still stereotype the Aboriginal people, and they themselves are still made to live as second class citizens, is because people just wont say sorry. Sure its not your immediate fault, but fuck, are we going to be selfish little children about it??...."Oooo, it wasn't ME who did it. I don't care if I know my ancestors DID do it, im not saying sorry.".... John Howard makes me sick. How hard is it to reconcile Howard, How Hard????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Atticus.]

if aboriginals are australians, then why dont we just call them australians? there are a part of our country, and we all want to be unified so i think they should just becalled australians.

good point but some aboriginals dont accept the our counrtys naming. they have their own names for the land which is fair enuff considering that aboriginals were here LONG before we were. so calling them just Australians will never fly. not becasue we dont want it but because the majority of indigenous people (whoa re in touch with their culture) would rather be known by their tribal callsign. which is cool

 

[lengstar]

Aboriginal orefer to be segregated. they refer to themselves as black, they like to be known as different, and they often state which tribe they are from. from the perspective of outsiders this is an isolationist culture. they pride themselves on it. its hard to connect with them when they are lecturing cause they keep referring to themselves as different. i have no problem with them its just that bahaviour seems a bit arrogant. i empthasise with their situation though and our head of state should apologise.

 

[tWiStEdD]

i thought refugees were terrorists? that's why we can't let them into the country, right?

give me your address, and i will send you a replacement brain.
I've never said such things. Refugees are NOT terrorists, such a generalisation is untrue... its extreme, even by my alleged standards.

and mostly the point of view I don't agree with is Twistedd....

Nice way to single me out, buddy. Should i send you a brain too? The way I see it is the only way we will get intelligent debates here is if some kindly passing surgeon grabs a shovel, cracks a few skulls and shoves some new brains in. How stupid do you think I am!?!?

I find it insulting that I take a mid-spectrum viewpoint and I get burnt alive by all the bloody bleeding hearts out there.

Okay, yes... it would be nice if Australia 'made up' with the Aboriginal people.... but seriously... folks.... That's the ideal.

Try reality.
- Aboriginals are incarcerated 19 to 29 times more often than 'whites', depending on your definition of an 'Aboriginal'.
This does not mean that the only cause is discrimination (I'm sure its part of it), but perhaps they ARE committing crimes more often and getting caught...
- "At 30 June 2000 there were 4,095 Indigenous prisoners in Australia (19% of the Australian prisoner population)." (Section 1.3.1 of the Royal Commision into Aboriginal deaths in custody)
The legal system is not anti-Aboriginal.... but for such a minority, they're committing more crime
- Look at Redfern... if a 'white' boy dies under such circumstances, there tends not to be a riot... hell it may not even make the papers. Aboriginal issues are sensationalised, its as simple as that. Can we be blamed for feeling ill towards Aboriginal people when this is what the media shows us? When Aboriginals are seemingly committing crime more often than 'white' people (proportionally)
- There would be a vicious cycle going on here, kids. White Australians were horrible to Aboriginals, Aboriginals have been conditioned to disliking 'whites' and so the cycle continues. I live in a relatively remote area, where ALL I SEE is Aboriginal kids in fights, in the 'special class' for kids with behavioural problems and Aboriginal adults either sitting in the park drinking or not drinking, just sitting. Not the GREATEST of rolemodels... we have to be able to agree on that.
- 'Sorry' will not change a single damned thing. Symbolic? yes. politically correct? yes Politically popular? THAT is a different story. While they're at us for an apology, perhaps we should get Europe to chip into the sorry-box... its just as much their fault.... hey, they made us.

I'm just trying to speak broadly here, i'm not anti-Aboriginals... cant say i've met many that will positivly contribute to Australia in the future, but who's fault is that? Its sure as hell not my fault that all of them i've met have been part of the local G-Unit thus limiting their vocab to 'dawg', 'bro', 'bitch' and 'sup'... far below the requirements for getting places. I do, however admit that i've met one excellent person who also happens to be Aboriginal... ironically his parents are not anti-white, and he's come out fine. I do hate to generalise, but under these circumstances, wouldnt it be better if Aboriginals went out asking for an apology in a nicer manner.... As opposed to rioting and getting into miscellaneous trouble?

Fair go fellas, Aboriginals arent all bad at all. There is, however, an obvious minority that give the rest a bad name. Should this be combatted (though social attitudes) then I think we'd all get along a lot better. Unfortunately, sorry doesnt help anyone... I suspect it will cause more trouble that it is worth.

By the way, those who bad-repped me for my comments obviously need to read over them again... I AM NOT anti-aboriginal. I'm just a cynical realist... shame on you all.

 

[boinkBOINK]

all i can say is i agree with twistedd right here

 

[*~Dazed~*]

its not like dipshits who religiously watch big brother are going to care about refugees or anything that may be remotely important...ie boring things that they are too stupid to understand.

i just want to say how fucked up this statement of yours is

 

[katie_tully]

One; That whole "Redfern" thing was caused because the police were investigating bag snatching...young, sweet, innocent TJ Hickey fled on his bicycle because he didn't want to be questioned...If you have nothing to hide, why run? Secondly, if this TJ Hickey lad, had have been white, and had the police chased a white TJ Hickey, and had this white TJ Hickey impaled himself on a fence post would there have been a riot? I think not.
Why?
Because apparently if the police want to question an "Aboriginal" over an offence, they're directly implying that this aboriginal has committed an offence, yet if it's a white person, it isnt viewed the same.
Why is there a difference? There isn't.

Two; I am not saying sorry, infact THERE ISN'T A CHANCE IN HELL of me apologising for something that happened well before I was born. Yeah, I'm sympathetic, yeah it was a bitch what they went through, but is it my fault? No. Isn't saying sorry admitting to doing something wrong. Yes. Have I done anything wrong? No.
If todays generation is expected to go and say sorry for the injustices that natives went through, the whole world would be patting each other on the head.
Our whole society has been based on conquests over certain races. Are we expected to say sorry because what happened to the Aboriginals is recently new compared to say other colonisations of other nations?

Three; Merlin is a fucking idiot. Go die Merlin.

 

[katie_tully]

Off topic, but it's about crime related to Aboriginals.
I live near Dubbo. I'm relatively white. You know what you don't do in certain parts of Dubbo if you're white?
Walk alone.
Why?
Fair game.
I was robbed of my phone and beaten up by a small number of aboriginal girls. Do I demand an apology? Do I hold this against ALL aboriginals? No, I hold this against those certain aboriginals who use their aboriginality as a get out of jail free card whenever they fuck up. Thats what these girls did, and they were more white than I am.
Sure there's a hell of alot of white scum, more so than aborignals, because we have a larger population, but regardless of race THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO ACT LIKE A FUCKHEAD.
We don't need to apologise, we need to work out how to live in one place together without looking over our shoulder for fear that one of the other is going to bludgeon us into a puddle

 

[crazyhomo]

katie: have you ever, in your entire life, apologise to someone for something that happen to them that wasn't anything to do with you? 'im so sorry that your grandpa died', 'im sorry that the mugger stole your bag', or 'im sorry you were born with only half a brain'. are any of those admiting guilt?

 

[katie_tully]

Actually, no. I have never said sorry when I've heard of somebody dying, whether they're related to me, or a friend. I've always offered my condolences, and my support, never sorry.

 

[katie_tully]

Even if I were born with half a brain, we only use at most 10% of our brain. So that was a pretty redundant call.

 

[crazyhomo]

Even if I were born with half a brain, we only use at most 10% of our brain. So that was a pretty redundant call.

hahahahaha

you do realise that 'fact' is actually complete bullshit, right? though, thanks for proving my point that you're an idiot who will believe anything

 

[crazyhomo]

Actually, no. I have never said sorry when I've heard of somebody dying, whether they're related to me, or a friend. I've always offered my condolences, and my support, never sorry.

and bullshit. i don't believe you

 

[katie_tully]

Fact is bullshit and I'll believe anything?
So does that mean you have factual evidence to prove that the brain only uses 10% of its potential is a crock of shit? Please, I'd like to see it. I'll present my research.

And as for the bullshit, you dont believe me..
Good, dont? I suppose you, holier than thou, almighty all knowing, all knowledgable knows exactly what I've said throughout my life. Good work on assuming that I've ever met people who's grandfather or whatever has just died. One. Thats the number of people who have died that i know of. My ex's uncle. Do you know what I said when he died? Oh, OF COURSE YOU DO! YOU KNOW EVERYTHING! HAHAHAHAHA.

Nice job.

 

[crazyhomo]

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html
http://sociologyesoscience.com/brain.html
http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

if you want more, i can easily provide it for you. google came up with thousands of pages dedicated to debunking that myth

oh, and you are really quite simple. i was talking about situations like that in general, just giving some examples so you could understand what i was talking about. obviously that was too complicated for you, since you assumed i was only talking about when people have died. but i do know for a fact that you have, in some point in your life, apologised for something that you were not responsible for. how do i know this? because you are a human being, with, i'm assuming, some kind of heart. though i could be wrong on this point. after all, you are using about 90% less brain power than the average person