mormonism muddle (1 Viewer)

[8.55 Psychosis]

Hi everyone, this is a bit of a general question, but I'll ask it here anyway. I'm trying to understand mormonism in today's society, and need a bit of help. I've looked it up and have found info on its major beliefs and deviations from the Bible, etc, but I want to know where mormons stand in the world today. For example, in Angels in America, there's a lot of reference to it, and Joe being mormon seems to be received with a shocked, almosted disgusted response from Louis and Prior. What exactly is it about mormons that brings about this negative kind of image? Surely it's much more than the polygamy and views on Lucifer and the 'non-virgin' Virgin Mary. I feel a bit silly saying all this when I definitely don't know enough about the religion for a start, but if anyone can fill me in on all this that'd be much appreciated. I'd like to include issues surrounding mormonism in my major work, just need some clarity. Thanks a lot!

 

[super katie]

I think what pisses most people off about Mormons, as well as Seventh Day Adventists, is the way the come knocking on our doors at all hours of the morning trying to convert us. I recommend you see the episode of John Safran Vs God dealing with Mormons, apart from being incredibly funny, it kind of deals with the questions you're asking. And theres a very funny segment about the "magic mormon underpants"

 

[8.55 Psychosis]

ok, thanks! yeah john safran's too funny! can't wait to see it

 

[alien]

um, I'm part of the LDS church ('mormon') and I can answer all of your questions. firstly we believe the Virgin Mary was a virgin. Where we stand in the world today? It depends on what issue you're referring to. Post/PM exactly what you mean... There's HEAPS.
EDIT: I'd recommend if you want to actually find out stuff about the church that isn't made up (trust me alot of stuff made by other ppl is only partially true/not true at all), get info off someone who is one.

 

[Abbeygale]

Speaking of people who are one (ack that's a bad sentence...) Orson Scott Card is LDS also. This may not be helpful in terms of background research, but he has a website, www.hatrack.com . He writes a lot of essays, reviews etc, and his day-to-day morality tends to come across in those. He's also written a couple of LDS based books.

 

[minushuman]

Jesus-tittyfucking-christ. A chance to discuss the stupidity that is mormonism.

Mormonism is first on the list of "biggest loads of crap joel has ever hear" followed by Muslims not eating pork because pigs occassionally eat there on excriment.

If you need to hear the mormon story in a nutshell, watch southpark. They did an amazingly (also disturbingly) accurate recount of the story of Mormon.

Heres how it went:
An american named joseph smith claimed god came to him and showed him the location of a set of stone tablets, accompanied by a decyphering stone, and told him that this was the true word of god. He also said not to show anyone the tablet.
Joseph puts them into a hat and reads there contents to a publisher of sorts who is amazed by the story, he takes it home to his wife to tell her about it. The stones reveal that despite history and archealogical evidence native Americans were actually white, and jesus was a native american. Stupidest most arogant belief ever. Joseph Smith was a red blood racist patriot.
Anyway, wife of said publisher says, "Your a freaking idiot, how dumb are you for believing Joseph. I'll keep these and you go back tomorrow, say you lost them and he will do it again. If he doesnt produce the same results he is a fraud"
So the publisher of sorts goes back, Joseph says god is angry with him for letting the publisher take the text and as punishment wants him to read from a different set of stones. That became the mormon religion. Dumbest, thing, ever.

 

[alien]

that's wrong.
the first paragraph is mostly right (starting at "An American").
the rest is wrong.
we don't believe that Jesus was native American. we believe that a group of people from Jerusalem left at around 600BC (Jeremiah's time) and travelled to America by boat. they set up a colony and over the thousand years that the record is kept (called the Book of Mormon), the nation split into two, the Lamanites and Nephites, Christ visit these people after his death (John 10:16- "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them must I also bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.")
After Christ's visit there was peace for a hundred years or so until the people fell back into war, leading to the destruction of the Nephites and the population of the Americas by the Lamanites- ancestors of Native Americans. Joseph Smith was no rascist patriot.
One of the men assisting Joseph in the translation of the plates, Martin Harris (Joseph would translate and Martin Harris scribed), begged Joseph to let him show a section of translated text to his wife, Joseph prayed and was told not to, but Martin Harris persisted, so Joseph begged the Lord and after several times the Lord gave Joseph permission to let Martin Harris show his wife. His wife and the group of people she was part of that wanted to destroy the church took the translations and basically rewrote them out with different words so that when the prophet retranslated them they could say that there were mistakes because there were differences. However, the Lord commanded Joseph not to retranslate that section of the plates and move to another section. The translation that was lost is known as the lost 116 pages.
After the full translation of the Gold Plates into The Book of Mormon, (which we treat as scripture because the Nephites and Lamanites had prophets that were inspired of God, just like old testament prophets), the church progressed ie. restoration of the Priesthood, ordinances eg. baptism, and the movement west to Utah. Since then it's become a world wide church. We follow the Lord Jesus Christ as the saviour and redeemer of the world, we teach from the Bible and Book of Mormon and other revelation the prophet Joseph received, we have a living prophet Gordon B. Hinkley and we follow his counsel. If you want more try www.mormon.org because it is the official site of the church and won't tell lies or give any wrong impressions like South Park, I don't know what their source was but it's not true.

 

[veridis]

bah stop ruining the fun of south park with facts. south park is always misguided and ultra one sided but thats what makes it so good =)

on a serious(er) note whats the deal with the magic underpants

 

[alien]

magic underpants... they're called garments and they're symbols of covenants we make with the Lord

 

[veridis]

so they're like showing that you're keeping your promises and stuff. i guess garments are just as logical as any other symbol of devotion

 

[alien]

yeah sort of... i like your open mindedness

 

[super katie]

Magic Mormon Underpants, using the terminology of John Safran I think he called them that because really devout mormons believed that the underwear (which looked like a normal pair of thermal underwear with an embroidered set square and compass on the nipples) could protect them from harm. Hence the word "magic".

arent they showing your connection with the stone masons though? With the use of the set square and compass?

 

[alien]

i don't really know what the symbols mean. i could find out.
also, lol about the protecting from harm, alot of people think like that, it's based on incidences eg. i heard about this guy in my area who had a bike accident and was grazed all over but the grazing stopped where his garments started, like where the garments were he wasn't hurt.
i don't know if it's really doctrine that you get protected, i mean people wearing garments have been hurt before, it's not like you suddenly become invincible when you wear them.
but it's cool to think about anyway
like if you're righteous the Lord will protect you anyway, but he'll also let you go through trials and stuff

 

[cori_rocks]

Good on you Alien!!

I just wanted to echo my support for alien. Like you, I am to a member of the Latter Day Saints. I have found your guys conversation interesting, but am glad that the " mormons" have been able to tell you the actual truth of what we believe. In the case of the garments and their protection, I don't know if you remember that a missionary from our church recently fell off a cliff in Wollongong just before Christmas. This cliff was about 100 metres. He survived remarkably with no broken bones only bruising and was in the hospital at Wollongong for a short time. It was on the news at the time of the incident. God still works miracles and the garments can protect you and it is doctrine if you live in righteousness.

 

[Meldrum]

that's wrong.
the first paragraph is mostly right (starting at "An American").
the rest is wrong.
we don't believe that Jesus was native American. we believe that a group of people from Jerusalem left at around 600BC (Jeremiah's time) and travelled to America by boat. they set up a colony and over the thousand years that the record is kept (called the Book of Mormon), the nation split into two, the Lamanites and Nephites, Christ visit these people after his death (John 10:16- "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them must I also bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.")
After Christ's visit there was peace for a hundred years or so until the people fell back into war, leading to the destruction of the Nephites and the population of the Americas by the Lamanites- ancestors of Native Americans. Joseph Smith was no rascist patriot.
One of the men assisting Joseph in the translation of the plates, Martin Harris (Joseph would translate and Martin Harris scribed), begged Joseph to let him show a section of translated text to his wife, Joseph prayed and was told not to, but Martin Harris persisted, so Joseph begged the Lord and after several times the Lord gave Joseph permission to let Martin Harris show his wife. His wife and the group of people she was part of that wanted to destroy the church took the translations and basically rewrote them out with different words so that when the prophet retranslated them they could say that there were mistakes because there were differences. However, the Lord commanded Joseph not to retranslate that section of the plates and move to another section. The translation that was lost is known as the lost 116 pages.
After the full translation of the Gold Plates into The Book of Mormon, (which we treat as scripture because the Nephites and Lamanites had prophets that were inspired of God, just like old testament prophets), the church progressed ie. restoration of the Priesthood, ordinances eg. baptism, and the movement west to Utah. Since then it's become a world wide church. We follow the Lord Jesus Christ as the saviour and redeemer of the world, we teach from the Bible and Book of Mormon and other revelation the prophet Joseph received, we have a living prophet Gordon B. Hinkley and we follow his counsel. If you want more try www.mormon.org because it is the official site of the church and won't tell lies or give any wrong impressions like South Park, I don't know what their source was but it's not true.

Yes, sorrry...THAT's plausable.

 

[veridis]

yep and a bloke of virgin birth rising from the dead is so much more plausible
it religion. plausibility is not necessary. by nature its a matter of belief. if it could be definitively proven then it would lose its meaning. where's the faith?
sure i think its BS but if people want to belive it good on em.