multiple choice answers (4 Viewers)

[WantToDoBetter]

It's simple.

If you take a snake out of a fridge and put it in an oven, and measure it's temperature 1 minute later it will still be lower than the temperature of the oven.

Therefor C is incorrect.

Again, no one is doubting the facts within the question, it's the ambiguity of an observation that is the underlying factor as to which is the correct answer.

 

[PantherZ]

Again, no one is doubting the facts within the question, it's the ambiguity of an observation that is the underlying factor as to which is the correct answer.

Yes, the question is ambiguous, somewhat. Answer C is correct to an extent. However, the BEST answer would be, undoubtedly, D.

C can be viewed from two contravening perspectives, whereas D is just correct. They don't give a crap if C is right from one angle. They are looking for the best answer, and hence, D.

 

[Ginny11]

The answer is C. It doesnt matter the temp of the cage, the fact the animal has a different temp from its environment means you can conclude that through metabolic processes it maintained it's body temp and thus an endotherm. Why is D wrong? Because the fact they say the word "METABOLISM". In ectotherms body temp is regulated by heat gained from environment rather than heat produced by the animals's own metabolic processes. Any questions?

 

[black_kat_meow]

The answer is C. It doesnt matter the temp of the cage, the fact the animal has a different temp from its environment means you can conclude that through metabolic processes it maintained it's body temp and thus an endotherm. Why is D wrong? Because the fact they say the word "METABOLISM". In ectotherms body temp is regulated by heat gained from environment rather than heat produced by the animals's own metabolic processes. Any questions?

I think it's D, because metabolism is directly linked to body heat, ectotherms metabolisms decrease when their body temperature drops, therefore, logically it would increase when cage temperature increased.

An ectotherm would not necessarily have the same temperature as the cage.

 

[russianROULETTE]

The answer is C. It doesnt matter the temp of the cage, the fact the animal has a different temp from its environment means you can conclude that through metabolic processes it maintained it's body temp and thus an endotherm. Why is D wrong? Because the fact they say the word "METABOLISM". In ectotherms body temp is regulated by heat gained from environment rather than heat produced by the animals's own metabolic processes. Any questions?

temp of the cage does matter. C is only correct if we know that the temperature of the cage is over their normal temperature (i.e. 37 for humans), which we don't. an answer based on an 'if' is clearly not an answer when there is another answer (i.e. D) that is correct no matter what (the metabolism part is as black_cat_meow said).

to quote PantherZ:

C can be viewed from two contravening perspectives, whereas D is just correct. They don't give a crap if C is right from one angle. They are looking for the best answer, and hence, D.

 

[Ginny11]

temp of the cage does matter. C is only correct if we know that the temperature of the cage is over their normal temperature (i.e. 37 for humans), which we don't. an answer based on an 'if' is clearly not an answer when there is another answer (i.e. D) that is correct no matter what (the metabolism part is as black_cat_meow said).

to quote PantherZ:

It doesn't matter if the temp is over their normal temp or if it's under it- just that it's different means that they have been able to maintain it. EG. Think of metabolic process for temp regualtion. Sweating, in endotherm is used to lower temp, like a kangaroo does. Now an ectotherm doesn't sweat, intead it will move to shade, or sleep during the day and come out at night or vice versa. Definite difference in how temperature is regulated. Enironmental/Internal. And thats why metabolism is wrong and D is wrong. Also one more point: metbolism increases when the body temp is too low, yet in the observation they are increasing the cage's temp and they say that the animals metabolism is increasing which means the increasing temp must be cold which is a bit of a catch 22.

 

[russianROULETTE]

It doesn't matter if the temp is over their normal temp or if it's under it- just that it's different means that they have been able to maintain it.

um, yes it does. if the cage is under their normal temp and they are under the temp of the cage, then they can't be an endotherm. thus the option can't be correct unless we know a temp, which we don't.

EG. Think of metabolic process for temp regualtion. Sweating, in endotherm is used to lower temp, like a kangaroo does. Now an ectotherm doesn't sweat, intead it will move to shade, or sleep during the day and come out at night or vice versa. Definite difference in how temperature is regulated. Enironmental/Internal. And thats why metabolism is wrong and D is wrong.

that doesn't prove D wrong. the ectotherm's temperature changes with the cage (ambient/environmental) temperature because it can't regulate itself or move to anywhere else (it is in a cage).

Also one more point: metbolism increases when the body temp is too low, yet in the observation they are increasing the cage's temp and they say that the animals metabolism is increasing which means the increasing temp must be cold which is a bit of a catch 22.

no, metabolism doesn't increase when body temp is too low. perhaps for endotherms which regulate their temperature through metabolism, but not for ectotherms.

also, a quote from MSN encarta on ectotherms:

Because their rate of metabolism declines with a drop in the outside temperature, cold-blooded animals become torpid in cold weather.

thus an increased temperature would increase metabolism.

 

[Ginny11]

um, yes it does. if the cage is under their normal temp and they are under the temp of the cage, then they can't be an endotherm. thus the option can't be correct unless we know a temp, which we don't.

that doesn't prove D wrong. the ectotherm's temperature changes with the cage (ambient/environmental) temperature because it can't regulate itself or move to anywhere else (it is in a cage).

no, metabolism doesn't increase when body temp is too low. why do you think organisms like bears eat heaps then hibernate in the winter? the cold temperature slows their metabolism so they can last until the warmer months when there is more food.

also, a quote from MSN encarta on ectotherms:


thus an increased temperature would increase metabolism.

no, when the body temp is low "increasing metabolism, so more heat is made throughout the body" (EXCEL biology- author DIANE ALFORD who is my bio teacher) meaning that the metabolism of the animal wouldn't need to increase coz the temp of the cage is already increasing making its body temp increase. Get it? hibernation is different; metabolism decreases so they don't use energy- totally different process.

 

[russianROULETTE]

no, when the body temp is low "increasing metabolism, so more heat is made throughout the body" (EXCEL biology- author DIANE ALFORD who is my bio teacher) meaning that the metabolism of the animal wouldn't need to increase coz the temp of the cage is already increasing making its body temp increase. Get it? hibernation is different; metabolism decreases so they don't use energy- totally different process.

yeah, i edited the part about hibernation because that wasn't correct. but the part posted from MSN encarta is correct.

as my edit also said, an increase in metabolism refers to endotherms who regulate their temperature through metabolic processes - ectotherms do not regulate their temperature through metabolism. thus their metabolism rises and falls with the ambient temp.

also, your blatant name-dropping fails because excel is hardly reliable. it told our class the incorrect information about regions of the brain (we checked it against medical journals).

 

[Ginny11]

yeah, i edited the part about hibernation because that wasn't correct. but the part posted from MSN encarta is correct.

as my edit also said, an increase in metabolism refers to endotherms who regulate their temperature through metabolic processes - ectotherms do not regulate their temperature through metabolism. thus their metabolism rises and falls with the ambient temp.

also, your blatant name-dropping fails.

Ok since we both have highly sophiticated and logical minds (not to mention stubborn) i think we should just agree to disagree. Also, i love saying my bio teacher wrote the excel book- i think it allows me some braggin rights.

Anyway thanks for that very stimulating debate- i love disagreeing with people- im gunna head off and watch a movie.

Oh, can you explain question 8 to me? i answered (a) but have no idea what the answer is.

 

[blahety]

OMGGGG u know for the question about the phloem cell thingo
u had to label.. what did people write??
i wrote the first one was sink (weird thing with dots).. and the one below as sieve tubes. is ... it...... wrong? D:

 

[bendha]

OMGGGG u know for the question about the phloem cell thingo
u had to label.. what did people write??
i wrote the first one was sink (weird thing with dots).. and the one below as sieve tubes. is ... it...... wrong? D:

yea you are wrong sorry. The one with the holes are definitely SIEVE PLATES as they are plates. the sieve tube will be the tubes with the sieve plates. As for the tube thingy, I'm not too sure, But i believe it is campanion cells :s I thought of it but i wrote sink cell which is ... i dunno

 

[bendha]

AND ALSO ...
stop blah blah-ing about the multiple choice question.
D is the better answer
C CAN also be right.
Some ECTOTHERMS DO increase metabolism when cold, but they struggle to

We shall see answers when BOARDOFSTUDIES posts them so quit bitchin

 

[russianROULETTE]

Ok since we both have highly sophiticated and logical minds (not to mention stubborn) i think we should just agree to disagree.

damn. i was collecting more links to support my points lol. might as well post them for future debates because otherwise i've wasted my time;

Because their rate of metabolism declines with a drop in the outside temperature, cold-blooded animals become torpid in cold weather.

- wikipedia

http://www.mrs.umn.edu/~goochv/AnimalPhys/temperature/temperature.html
- point II which links to point III

Animals which have no metabolic method of regulating their body temperature are known as ectotherms.

http://www.cix.co.uk/~argus/Dreambio/homeostasis/ectotherms%20and%20endotherms.htm

so yeah, mostly stuff that came up was essays which you had to pay to get.

Also, i love saying my bio teacher wrote the excel book- i think it allows me some braggin rights.

haha, okay.

Anyway thanks for that very stimulating debate- i love disagreeing with people- im gunna head off and watch a movie.

yes, i too love arguing with people lol.

Oh, can you explain question 8 to me? i answered (a) but have no idea what the answer is.

C. A is incorrect because 'grow better' is very broad, doesn't really tell us what you're assessing - leaf size, plant height etc, and also doesn't test the effect of different lights because it is only testing red. B doesn't say anything about different coloured lights. D isn't testing different coloured lights, it's testing the effect of one light on two plants.

C, however, tells you what it is testing (height), and that there are two types of light, and thus is testing the effect of light on plant growth. does that make sense?

 

[bendha]

C. A is incorrect because 'grow better' is very broad, doesn't really tell us what you're assessing - leaf size, plant height etc, and also doesn't test the effect of different lights because it is only testing red. B doesn't say anything about different coloured lights. D isn't testing different coloured lights, it's testing the effect of one light on two plants.

C, however, tells you what it is testing (height), and that there are two types of light, and thus is testing the effect of light on plant growth. does that make sense?

yea ... and also how can students really test ALL plants?

 

[russianROULETTE]

yea ... and also how can students really test ALL plants?

oh yeah, forgot that lol. so that's another point for C: it says the specific type of plant they'll be using.

 

[Ginny11]

C. A is incorrect because 'grow better' is very broad, doesn't really tell us what you're assessing - leaf size, plant height etc, and also doesn't test the effect of different lights because it is only testing red. B doesn't say anything about different coloured lights. D isn't testing different coloured lights, it's testing the effect of one light on two plants.

C, however, tells you what it is testing (height), and that there are two types of light, and thus is testing the effect of light on plant growth. does that make sense?

Ok yeah understand- like you need the variables- i actually was going to put c but thought that saying "pea plants" was like too specific and doesnt cover all plants but oh well 14 (possibly 13-lol) out of 15 is good enough for me.

 

[russianROULETTE]

Ok yeah understand- like you need the variables- i actually was going to put c but thought that saying "pea plants" was like too specific and doesnt cover all plants but oh well 14 (possibly 13-lol) out of 15 is good enough for me.

yeah, the question doesn't actually ask for all plants, just plant growth in general. but i can understand why you put a if that's how you interpreted it

 

[WantToDoBetter]

yea you are wrong sorry. The one with the holes are definitely SIEVE PLATES as they are plates. the sieve tube will be the tubes with the sieve plates. As for the tube thingy, I'm not too sure, But i believe it is campanion cells :s I thought of it but i wrote sink cell which is ... i dunno

1. Sieve element/tube
2. Campanion cells

That's what i put...

 

[black_kat_meow]

Ok yeah understand- like you need the variables- i actually was going to put c but thought that saying "pea plants" was like too specific and doesnt cover all plants but oh well 14 (possibly 13-lol) out of 15 is good enough for me.

So you think it's more achievable to test ALL plants rather than specify? Lol.

By the way, as I said, it's def. D, ECTOTHERMS do not increase metabolism when their body temp. is lowered

Anyone who relies on purely the HSC excel book would be screwed anyway, it's full of SO many errors.