Muslim People in Australia (2 Viewers)

[SabtheLab]

it pains me to hear of Islamic laws being described as archaic when Shariah law in its pure form is a dynamic system adaptable to all times . what irks me even more is the ignorance with which "Islamic law" is described, as though the format in which it is presented today is a true reflection of shariah. you cant base your idea of islamic law being archaic on the way it is being implemented today.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

it pains me to hear of Islamic laws being described as archaic when Shariah law in its pure form is a dynamic system adaptable to all times

Shariah law in it's pure form is the direct wishes of God...

what irks me even more is the ignorance with which "Islamic law" is described, as though the format in which it is presented today is a true reflection of shariah

If it was a true reflection of 'shariah' - as i'm sure the theocrats would dictate it - it would be worse.

you cant base your idea of islamic law being archaic on the way it is being implemented today.

Islamic law NOW is more progressive than it used to be... now if you're claiming the law used to be a true reflection of sharia, yes it was better back then than other laws of the time - but to bring it to our timeframe would set muslim countries back even more.

 

[katie_tully]

Dude, I just want the Muslims on this board to answer me one question. This will settle my argument once and for all.

DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE MUSLIMS IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE DELIBERATELY NOT EMBRACING OUR VALUES, AND WHO HONESTLY HATE WHAT WE STAND FOR.

It's a simple yes or no answer. Feel free to comment on why you feel that way. I want to know. There is so much talk about the Muslim community being persecuted right now because of the actions of others, but are any of you helping the situation?

12 of the wanted white men from Cronulla are left, 8 have come forward. Yet it has been said nobody from the Muslim community is going to tip off the young Muslim men wanted. Why is this? Do you all think they did nothing wrong? We're dobbing in 'our' young men for their involvement, why is the Muslim community not doing the same?

 

[HotShot]

Dude, I just want the Muslims on this board to answer me one question. This will settle my argument once and for all.

DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE MUSLIMS IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE DELIBERATELY NOT EMBRACING OUR VALUES, AND WHO HONESTLY HATE WHAT WE STAND FOR.

It's a simple yes or no answer. Feel free to comment on why you feel that way. I want to know. There is so much talk about the Muslim community being persecuted right now because of the actions of others, but are any of you helping the situation?

12 of the wanted white men from Cronulla are left, 8 have come forward. Yet it has been said nobody from the Muslim community is going to tip off the young Muslim men wanted. Why is this? Do you all think they did nothing wrong? We're dobbing in 'our' young men for their involvement, why is the Muslim community not doing the same?

This is where you are wrong katie, the issue isnt as simple as answering a question - nevertheless i will continue for your pleasure :wave:

Answer to the question: unfortunately Yes!

But there not only muslims that hate this country, i am sure there are people from religious groups that will have similar values.

As for the cronulla aftermath: remember the muslim community in australia is very very small and this if someone dobs someone in they will know who did it. basically i think it is out of fear the muslims community fail to turn in the culprits. After around the world muslims are in great fear- considering palestine , iraq, iran, afghanistan, pakistan, and detention centres, jails etc. SO it is out of fear especially after the cronulla incident,

its a delicate issue that has no simple answers.

 

[shiftylilbrat]

MUSLIMS in general arnt terorists, n u ppl should seriously get sum facts b4 goin off makin stuff up if u dont no da religion n wat it about then dont say nythin bout it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bout da cronulla thing those were jus sum idiots, n in our religion ur meant 2 treat vry1 wit respect n all but there jus lozr bsides that stuff happnds vrywhere!!!!!!!

 

[sly fly]

Dude, I just want the Muslims on this board to answer me one question. This will settle my argument once and for all.

DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE MUSLIMS IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE DELIBERATELY NOT EMBRACING OUR VALUES, AND WHO HONESTLY HATE WHAT WE STAND FOR.

It's a simple yes or no answer. Feel free to comment on why you feel that way. I want to know. There is so much talk about the Muslim community being persecuted right now because of the actions of others, but are any of you helping the situation?

12 of the wanted white men from Cronulla are left, 8 have come forward. Yet it has been said nobody from the Muslim community is going to tip off the young Muslim men wanted. Why is this? Do you all think they did nothing wrong? We're dobbing in 'our' young men for their involvement, why is the Muslim community not doing the same?

Firstly, which 'values' are you referring to? If your speaking about values such as ''giving everyone a fair go'', tolerance, understanding etc then Islam stands for these values. However, if you're talking of things like going for a beer after work every day, then no we don't embrace those values.

I'll make the assumption that you were referring to the values of a fair go, tolerance etc. So taking that assumption, in answer to your question: Yes

However, firstly, these aren't only Australian values but they're also Islamic values. Also, I think there aren't too many Muslims who are deliberately not embracing those values. In addition, I don't think it's only Muslims who are not embracing those values - there are probably a few other idiots who aren't embracing those values.

About the cronulla thing.....I can think of many reasons why they might not be dobbing them in (eg: fear of safety, agreeing with what they've done, a member of their family etc). Nevertheless, if I knew who those men were, I'd dob them in. Ofcourse what they did was wrong.....and every Muslim who I know would also tell you that what they did was wrong.

 

[Generator]

...

Why must we always discuss what it actually means to be Australian whenever someone mentions 'values'? Why must some people always belittle the notion by suggesting that to head to the pub for a beer is an Australian value? What are you trying to suggest? Is it but another way to belittle Australia as a western country and a liberal democracy?


The political values of this country have been expressed however many times since the beginning of the year, and we all know (or we should all know) that they are essentially what make us Australian. It would be great if we could just use this baseline and work from there rather than forever contest the notion of values in such a pathetic way.

Edit: Sorry, there was no need to be so rude. Still, my point still stands - don't trivialise the issue by making note of pointless and irrelevant 'values', especially when some have recently gone to great lengths in order to clearly describe and champion our country's values.

Also, I am sure that I am not alone in being well aware of the fact that such values aren't solely the preserve of the Australian political and social systems.

 

[sly fly]

I wasn't trying to belittle anything. I just wasn't sure what values she was referring to so I couldn't exactly give her a straightforward answer like she asked.....and she didn't say political values, she just said values.

 

[Generator]

I wasn't trying to belittle anything. I just wasn't sure what values she was referring to so I couldn't exactly give her a straightforward answer like she asked.....and she didn't say political values, she just said values.

Australia's values are essentially political.

 

[sly fly]

my response still stands

 

[Generator]

So does mine.

 

[sly fly]

my point is.....I couldn't give her a straightforward answer when she asked a vague question

and as for australian values being essentially political....is that just your opinion?

 

[Generator]

my point is.....I couldn't give her a straightforward answer when she asked a vague question

The question wasn't that vague, and you could have quite easily answered the question without much fuss had you just acted on your assumption in good faith.

and as for australian values being essentially political....is that just your opinion?

Ah, no, it's pretty much a statement of fact.

 

[sly fly]

It was vague for me because I didn't know what values she was referring to.....if I had acted on my assumption and given an answer to a specific set of values, and she wasn't actually referring to the same values I was, then she would get the wrong idea about Islamic values

thanks for the link, I didn't know that

 

[Generator]

Fair enough.

 

[katie_tully]

Why would going to the pub after work be an Australian value?

Of course you knew what I was talking about. You made it sound so trivial. You're all trying to defend the actions of rogues by questioning their safety, but what about the safety of those they jeopardised whilst undertaking their "revenge attacks"?
The caucasion perpetrators are being brought over the coals for their involvement, their faces have been broadcast across the country in quite clear photographs. So what about their safety? Yet many of them have come foward to face the music. What have the Arab community got to be scared about? Other Arabs? Or Australians?
It's a flimsy excuse. Also I ask Hot-Shot what Iraq has to do with the Cronulla riot.

If you don't know what Australian values are, perhaps you need an education. These are things everybody should know if they are honest Australian citizens.

Why when I ask about Muslims, do you then question other religions? This is not about whether Catholics, JW's, HK's, Buddhists or other cults hate Australia. If they do, they too should be persecuted.

It is a question that can be answered quite clearly.

 

[HotShot]

It's a flimsy excuse. Also I ask Hot-Shot what Iraq has to do with the Cronulla riot.
.

Worldwide events has an impact on the second biggest religion in the world. Just like the pope. and as result iraq which is a current event has lot to with views of australians and arabs and muslims in australia.

 

[katie_tully]

I don't believe Iraq has any bearing on what we think of Muslims. Infact, a lot of people oppose the war in Iraq. Those who support the war do not support it because they hate Muslims. I supported the war because it deposed of Saddam Hussein.

What happened in Cronulla was a result of local tension between Muslims and Anglo Australians. They did not riot in Cronulla because of the war in Iraq, they rioted because they were sick of Arab gangs patrolling the beaches.

 

[HotShot]

I don't believe Iraq has any bearing on what we think of Muslims. Infact, a lot of people oppose the war in Iraq. Those who support the war do not support it because they hate Muslims. I supported the war because it deposed of Saddam Hussein.

What happened in Cronulla was a result of local tension between Muslims and Anglo Australians. They did not riot in Cronulla because of the war in Iraq, they rioted because they were sick of Arab gangs patrolling the beaches.

not what we think, but how muslims feel? wouldnt they feel terrified?

 

[katie_tully]

Huh? And what about the people walking along beaches, or along streets? Should they have to feel terrified about being targeted by certain rogue individuals?

The Muslim community should come foward with their trouble makers, just as we did with ours. If you're all so worried about the Muslim image in this country, you aren't doing a lot to try and rectify the situation.