NO OFFENCE but....... (2 Viewers)

[Sarah168]

on second thoughts i guess u cant judge a book by its cover (also as far as UWS campuses go, u cant jjudge a book by its cover).

Done .

 

[Sarah168]

But my dear, the status and what people think of that prestige is exactly what we're talking about here. By merely illustrating that little fact, there really isnt anything we are doing wrong, on the vast majority, you will find people and the atmosphere there to be somewhat pretentious and snobby.

You have a good knack for twisting arguments to fit your agenda. This about hypocrisy and the fact that there is no need to stoop to someone else's level to prove a point. This applies to everything, not just the issue over the universities.

 

[Sarah168]

This is so pathetic...esp coming from uni students.

When I said "done", I meant that I was glad you were able to see my point even if you are reluctant to do so.

 

[White Rabbit]

I don't even see why you're hanging around the UWS forum if it's so below you, melbournian. But when you feel like backing up your accusations, or saying something more constructive than 'ain't that a shit Uni', maybe someone will take you seriously.

You see, I've been to USYD - open day, extension history lectures - all that fun stuff... - and i really didn't like it - it didn't have that friendly atmosphere I found at UWS (Or Wollongong, CSU and even UTS for that matter). I know many people who go to Sydney and most are, generally, decent people. But there is certainly an air of superiority in that joint, no doubt about it. I don't reckon all City Uni's are snobbish - I loved UTS and was seriously considering it as my place to study, not only because if was a friendly place, but also because of the practical emphsis it has in all areas, which is something Sydney can not claim. Sydney may have the name, and for theoretical research it probably is one of the best places in australia to study. But for practical, hands on training, it would have to be one of the worst.

An example is Nursing - they have the lowest pracs out of every university in the state that offers the degree. Not only that, I've spoken to the NUM3 at a Hopsital down the road, and the Nurses at St George Hospital, and Sydney is one of the worst places to do the degree - coming from the industry. Not only does it not properly prepare it's students to enter the system, they are only after money. You fail one subject you repeat the entire year, rather than just the one subject, like many other insitutions. UTS is one of the best, and UWS is actually highly regarded in this area as well. Sydney isn't.

Communications degrees? UTS is the best in Sydney, but the undisputed best University for comms is Charles Sturt University, Bathurst. Hows that aye? Central NSW, low cut offs.. yet it is THE BEST, according to the industry. And at the end of the day, thats what matters. What the Industry thinks, and if a university gets as much support as CSU, then there must be a reason for it.

Then theres my choice - Agriculture. The marks I got means I can get into any University in the state in Ag (Though, thats not hard considering the cut offs ) BUT, my point is, I checked out a few - CSU (Wagga Wagga), UNE, UWS (Hawkesbury) and USYD (Orange/Camden), yet I chose Western because of the facilities and the industry experience and recognition. The options are wider, you have more practical experience and better facilities.

Now, while doing your arty-farty social science economics degree might not need much practical experience, but for those of us who hope to find employment after Uni, pracs are very very important. And not matter how much prestige USYD may have, practical experience is something it simply does not deliver on.

So, before you attack other Uni's as being inferior to yours, maybe you should look at the shortcomings of your own. I know UWS has some, and I haven't got a problem with people disliking the place because of it. It's just when people who walk around with their heads up their arse, and attack something or someone without being able to back up their claims. All you say is it's full of westies and we're all dumb because we come from Western Sydney.

My eldest sister went to UNSW and did advanced science but transfered out to UWS Campbelltown to do medical science because she didn't like the place. She's at medical school in Canada at the moment. So obviously, it isn't a place for morons. we do have a bit of intelligence.

You, also, have no place condeming the entire western suburbs considering you have been in Sydney for an entire five minutes.

It's people like yourself that give USYD a bad name - most are OK - just the vocal minority that are a bunch of fuckwits. Go back to Melbourne, we don't need any more of your type in our city.

 

[= Jennifer =]

can i just say that i have received varied opinions of UWS and when i had been to previous open days it allowed me to formulate my own opinion and i believe that there is nothing wrong with UWS, sure it doesnt have the prestige of USYD or UNSW but it is quite a nice place to study it has a good atmosphere thats my two cents

 

[White Rabbit]

God if I ever met you, melbournian, I'd fucking beat the shit out of you, you sad sad little boy.

 

[eLmo]

oh god this has turned into another "UWS taboo" .. close it please
..clearly no one will get through melbournian's thick skull

 

[Malazn Pleasure]

funny how melb only replies to natsta's posts, and not mine or anyone elses.

its very insecure of him to make himself feel better by posting in the UWS forum

and please man, ur doing eco social science, its not worth bragging how good u r by going to usyd, its a crap course. the most u can be is a high school social science teacher hahahaha

 

[AsyLum]

But my dear, the status and what people think of that prestige is exactly what we're talking about here. By merely illustrating that little fact, there really isnt anything we are doing wrong, on the vast majority, you will find people and the atmosphere there to be somewhat pretentious and snobby.

You have a good knack for twisting arguments to fit your agenda. This about hypocrisy and the fact that there is no need to stoop to someone else's level to prove a point. This applies to everything, not just the issue over the universities.

whoa, whoa whoa.

Twisting arguments to serve my agenda? Sorry, you and melbournian suggested these ideas. I merely emphasised what they were on about, and exactly what we were arguing and basing our retalliation from. Im sorry if it offended you to see those arguments used against you and their vices made terribly clear. But perhaps you should think twice before defending such a shaky basis before you claim that we are not entitled to defend against an attack.

And you're claim of us being sad uni students, what right as a high school student do you then possess? I assume you expect that your thoughts and opinions are just as valid as ours, in which case, then "stooping" to the levels should be nothing more than a valid conversational argument in which we are on equal footing no? If indeed we possess different rights at which we can claim validity in argument and defence, then should we not revert ourselves down to the level of arguers and attackers lest we be accused of taking the moral high ground and rather than defending ourselves in the argument and of the accusations being thrust upon, just merely state upon our level and rather have two monologues on two different levels?

 

[Sarah168]

I didn't suggest an idea and didn't pass judgement on any universities. I was merely pointing out Natstar's hypocrisies. Do not assume that I believe my statements are as valid or anymore valid than yours. I myself am aspiring to be a university student and thereby was simply conveying my dissapointment in seeing those older than me arguing over succh frivolous and petty views in such a hypocritical way.

mebournian insinuates that UWS is crap, students cant get hired, are on the lowest rung of society etc etc (generalisation or not). Natstar decides to defend her uni by biting back and calling usyd snobs (generalisation or not). You don't see anything wrong about this? Im not saying people shouldnt defend against attacks. Im saying that when you ARE on the defensive, using a hypocritical approach and stooping to the methods of the offender is pathetic.

 

[golfstick]

*lets sleeping dogs lie... again*

 

[golfstick]

let me replenish first

 

[Sarah168]

Put it is this context. If u were a student at UWS and had Melbournian say this all at u, what would u do?

I have considered that actually. I would ignore it. People like that are not worth my time, effort and energy to reply to. I understand that not everybody responds in such a way but that is what I would do. I have gotten into an argument with melbournian before (a long time ago and over "superiority" issues as well), I replied once and when I saw his disgustingly distorted view on life and the educational system, I ignored it. Nat, you're proud of your uni and that is admirable, but don't detract from your integrity by responding in "melbournian style".

You might notice that I have never once responded to melbournian in this thread and largely ignored his posts, if only using them for passing reference.

 

[AsyLum]

Do I need to point out what is wrong with the above comment? Yes, we realise that there are members who "believe" their uni is superior to others but is it necessary to join them in their generalisations?

I believe this is the gist of your argument on here, yes?

It's isnt the "status" of a university that I'm pre-occupied about. I couldnt care less whether people think their uni is "above" the rest or whether a certain uni has a friendlier atmosphere. That isnt the gist of my posts at all. I'm pointing out that there is no need to stoop to somebody's elses level in order to justify an argument.

again restated.

You have a good knack for twisting arguments to fit your agenda. This about hypocrisy and the fact that there is no need to stoop to someone else's level to prove a point. This applies to everything, not just the issue over the universities.

Ok. Here, we've established the point you are trying to make, that its a hypocrisy to stoop to someone's level and resort to name calling, no? Well, let me ask you this, firstly, you claim that there is no need to generalise, that justifying an argument rests not upon this ability to create a basis but rather to what may i ask? Like i said in my previous quote, whilst it is a generalisation, it is one which is remotely true, there is a prestige and atmosphere within usyd which emanates forth with a pretentiousness and almost arrogant notion towards other unis. Who would start these rumours, these notions and taboo of the UWS and other 'non-sandstone' unis but those looking down upon them. On this account, i think that the discussion of atmosphere and student views upon their own uni and upon others is quite necessary, nay, integral to understanding this debate.

On the other hand, melbournian has raised the "UWS IS SHIT" argument. How so, apart from hearsay and without facts? He has raised an unwarranted attack on UWS, its students and on the name and reputation itself. Again, this is unjustified and likely an offshoot of the vast taboo and reputation given to UWS by other unis and those students who perceive it unjustly. So again i ask, how can you simply dismiss the discussion of atmosphere and of people's misconceptions upon UWS.

Which leads me to the more grossing matter of the crux of your point. That we shouldnt stoop down low to prove our point.

I didn't suggest an idea and didn't pass judgement on any universities. I was merely pointing out Natstar's hypocrisies. Do not assume that I believe my statements are as valid or anymore valid than yours. I myself am aspiring to be a university student and thereby was simply conveying my dissapointment in seeing those older than me arguing over succh frivolous and petty views in such a hypocritical way.

Firstly, your "do not assume that i...." speech was touching really,

This is so pathetic...esp coming from uni students.

When I said "done", I meant that I was glad you were able to see my point even if you are reluctant to do so.

but please tell me, you wish to enforce your point of view that we are wrong about "lowering" ourselves, no? Is that meant to be below our statements, or is it, as your statement assumes, that you wish for us to take your statement as a valid one like our own, which i have no problem in taking mind you, and perhaps you misconstrued my explanation before. I was merely trying to say that we are all on equal footing, rather than "stooping" everyone has their right opinion, that is what is so great about the internet, everyone can basically argue upon a level playing field. Now using that, this conversing/arguing cannot be "stooping" if we are to take each other validly as i have said. Otherwise, we risk the problem, of arguing on two different levels, that is looking down upon, or looking up at, in which i tend to disagree there to be a need of it. My gripe is upon an unwarranted attack, and one which is falsely strung together rather than the defence of UWS. Once provoked in such a fashion, one should expect no less, should they not? An opening salvo in trading words if i may add, but once we have arisen to the actual argument, i see very little to suggest otherwise that generally there is an atmosphere within USYD that announces itself as anything other than 'superior,' thus one would agree that as such, USYD sees itself at a heightened level to those others, thus, the snob is warranted no? if not then shall we digress upon pretentious then?


Secondly, and minorly, what is so 'petty' and 'frivolous' about arguing the reptutation of your uni from the misconceived perceptions of society today?

mebournian insinuates that UWS is crap, students cant get hired, are on the lowest rung of society etc etc (generalisation or not). Natstar decides to defend her uni by biting back and calling usyd snobs (generalisation or not).

Here we have another problem, you have classified the two as mere generalisations, when one is misconception, the other a generalisation. One has some credibility and some truth, whilst the other is nothing more than a derogatory perception. To class them as such is a mistake. Correct me if i am wrong on that one.

You don't see anything wrong about this? Im not saying people shouldnt defend against attacks. Im saying that when you ARE on the defensive, using a hypocritical approach and stooping to the methods of the offender is pathetic.

I dont see anything wrong with defending your uni, especially when it is so ill informed and merely heresay.

To stoop down to the offendor, suggests that you view melbournian in a somewhat lower platform? Are you then, the one being hypocritical at the same time? Simply put, are you attempting to argue with us on a level playing field, or rather on another level? There seems to be an inconsistency which arises when it suits you best, for those arguing are at a lower level, as to yourself, who seems to be on a higher pedestal looking down upon the 'sad' uni students. So tell me, is this hypocritical, or just a lax in concentration? Ill put it down to the latter, and hope that we can clear this up. Otherwise, you yourself, by the very definition you have given us, have "stooped" to our levels, or rather to an even lower level for looking down upon those arguing about looking down upon others.

 

[SuGa BunI =D]

chills asy, no need for an essay at nearly 1 am lolz

like i said before, some uni better than no uni or bumming or on the dole

 

[AsyLum]

chills asy, no need for an essay at nearly 1 am lolz

like i said before, some uni better than no uni or bumming or on the dole

I just finished my philosophy assignment fresh off socratic dialogue, thought id practice it on this argument.

 

[SuGa BunI =D]

talks abt bored...

as if ppls cn b bother to read that mini essay or urs kkeke that poor chick gonna hav to sit home tomoro night, killing her brain cells trying to argue/object to your essay

 

[SuGa BunI =D]

haha true lolz , cut sum slack, ish past 1 am women lolz

 

[AsyLum]

rofl, suga what are you doing at a time like this anyway!!

 

[AsyLum]

ahh ok, yeah i should be in bed soon just proofing the last parts of my essay.