Open borders and the free movement of people (1 Viewer)

[gerhard]

Re: Citizenship - The Citizenship Testing Discussion Paper

LOL brilliant plan. So we should basically push the australian environment to the point of failure and than plan on pissing off somewhere else or we could do something really crazy like attempt to plan for the future?

But it wont go to the point of failure, because people will leave much before that. If we start running out of water it will be well known that this is happening, that we cant support the population, prices for water will increase drastically, people will decide to move. The market will protect it.

Under the current system of restricted movement, if a country environment was being pushed to the point of failure, there is nothing they could do about it. They would have to continue to live there because borders are closed, further destroying the environment.

 

[dieburndie]

Re: Citizenship - The Citizenship Testing Discussion Paper

No, I'm arguing that at the moment free movement would only serve the purpose of spreading an average level of poverty globally. Wealth and affluence is in the hands of very few, and they would too suffer, resulting in an even larger proportion of the population suffering (though those who were experiencing the worst poverty before would be in a better position). I guess I really don't have a problem with it, it's just I really don't think it would accomplish a great deal until the human population was reduced to a reasonable level.

And where are all the liberals ever? I mean it's not like this place is usually a haven of liberal thought (I assume you are talking little l liberal). I mean you can hardly assume from what I have said that I am a crazy conservative, or that most liberals would support the removal of borders.

 

[banco55]

Re: Citizenship - The Citizenship Testing Discussion Paper

But it wont go to the point of failure, because people will leave much before that. If we start running out of water it will be well known that this is happening, that we cant support the population, prices for water will increase drastically, people will decide to move. The market will protect it.

Under the current system of restricted movement, if a country environment was being pushed to the point of failure, there is nothing they could do about it. They would have to continue to live there because borders are closed, further destroying the environment.

Open borders is a crazy idea. The fact that it's difficult to leave your home nation both pratically and emotionally speaking is a good thing as far as the environment goes. If you know you and your family are likely to be living somewhere for the next however many generations you are less likely to trash it.

 

[gerhard]

Re: Citizenship - The Citizenship Testing Discussion Paper

no i mean the Liberal Party liberal. Theres lots of progressive Libertarian style (waf, malfoy(?))Liberals that post here and I figured they would have interesting views on the subject. Anyway Ive enjoyed this discussion everybody but I have to do some more of this essay and go to sleep. thanks

 

[dieburndie]

Re: Citizenship - The Citizenship Testing Discussion Paper

Oh, ok. Well that makes a lot more sense considering the most prominent posters who don't suck seem to lean towards libertarianism. But doesn't that mean you were complaining about there being not enough people to disagree with you?

 

[Comrade nathan]

Re: Citizenship - The Citizenship Testing Discussion Paper

If your taking about free movement, you have to take into account 1st world people consume alot more then what is needed to survive (alot more than they deserve). You could only have a free movement if there was socialism. We would have to eliminate the bourgeois and bring 1st world working class and middle class people to world working class standard. So in the case of water, we wouldn't be able to have private swiming pools or wash our car as often.

So it would be fair to say the capitalist/imperialist system would failure. As this system results in uneven consumptions of resources.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: Citizenship - The Citizenship Testing Discussion Paper

Socialism was tested in USSR, Eastern Europe and China and it failed! There was never freedom or equality as envisaged by various socialist thinkers. It was and is too vague to apply in real life situation. As long as we are humans we have various needs according to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, motivation and desires, we are all different and cannot be treated like manufactured robots with the same needs. The last thing I want is a socialist planner deciding what I need to do! As humans we have varying capabilities and limitations and we will never be equal in status. It is too preposterous to even suggest socialism in 21st century.

In Europe(EU) they already have free movement and it is hardly a result of socialism but more of a result of the ideals of capitalism/ free trade.