Pauline Hanson's One Nation Approved?? DISCUSS! (2 Viewers)

[durrrrr]

Are the crime rates higher because of religion or because of some other confounding factor? Islam could very well be the cause, but I am yet to see convincing evidence for that (though I am searching for it myself).

It's okay, westerners. These violent muslims aren't attacking you because of their religion, so stop complaining.

It’s a bit like IQ comparisons between Africans and whites in the US. Africans have lower IQ not because of race, but because of socioeconomic
status.

That's not what the evidence says.

Sir, I also said that it’s impossible to completely separate economics from politics.
Again, confounding factor. You find that poorer countries, like North Korea, South Sudan, etc, also have some big political instability (sometimes involving religion, sometimes not). There are exceptions, but that’s the trend.

Syrian refugees pass through MULTIPLE safe countries before going to rich countries like the UK, Germany and Sweden.

Tell me that fear against a religion isn’t real.

phobia implies an IRRATIONAL fear. It's not irrational at all though.

Our opinions differ here. That’s fine.

You still havent explained why the conditions of detention centers mean that europeans shouldn't be worried about muslims.

Every person, regardless of ethnicity or religious belief, poses some risk to Australia. Sure. But, I don’t think religious belief is grounds for barring them entry into Australia. I’d like evidence of past violence/abuse committed by the person. Innocent until proven guilty.

That's completely impractical. And since entry into australia is a privilege, not a right, it doesn't matter if they're "innocent".

They are a high risk group and australia is better of without them.

 

[durrrrr]

This is where you are plain wrong.

Poor white kids are smarter than rich black kids

Of course Europeans should be worried about accepting muslims, or any other ethnic/religious group. I did not say that about the conditions of detention centers. Please quote the specific line where you think I said that, and I’ll reply.

Why did you bring up detention centers, then?

Impractical….yes…..but what would you do, if you were immigration minister? Would you bar all immigrants from becoming Australian citizens/permanent residents, to prevent the situation where muslims hide their religion to enter Australia?

I would prevent immigration from all muslim majority countries. And anyone named mohammed of course.

 

[Simorgh]

Even though I find her unfavourable personally, like as someone else pointed it she and her party are entitled to hold such views. She's representing a minority of Australians who elected her party, who also hold such extreme views.

I don't want her blocked or censored in anyway. Yet again it is counterproductive and we are country that holds a freedom of speech for all. At the same time her policy views should be openly criticised and argued against.

 

[Red_of_Head]

I would've thought One Nation would lean more conservative in regards to other issues. However, they support euthanasia, medicinal marijuana, increasing student allowance, an apprenticeship scheme which advocates government funding of apprentices and pension increases. Also stricter control over foreign investors in housing.

 

[Red_of_Head]

I object to Hanson's climate science denial. I’d also like to see stricter control over BOTH domestic and foreign investors in housing.

I'm not a big fan of hers either, just commenting on her policies.

I'm pretty sure she's supporting reform to assist first home buyers.

She also appears to be anti-vaccination (she's at least talked about the dangers of them).

 

[sinophile]

if one nation come sback i will literally wear a nazi uniform to their rallies

 

[durrrrr]

Why do you visit this point again?

This is not the case. I refer to an observational study: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0030320

another one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24729404

an essay: http://www.theatlantic.com/national...ng-the-connection-between-race-and-iq/275876/

I spell: Genetic differences between races/ethnicities have a negligible effect on IQ….. Environment has the bigger effect.

The first two links don't deal with race, and the second one doesn't really say much other than things are complicated. The third link is trash.

plus, I have never seen a study that has a group of poor white kids with higher IQ scores than a group of rich black kids. Even if such a study exists, It’d be in an underwhelming minority (likely with statistical issues).

Feel free to come up with conspiracy theories.

I did that for a comparison with Nice (which I admit was a flawed one). I said that the French have some freedom, in contrast to the abuses that muslims endure in offshore detention. I was comparing the degree of freedom in each place. I did not say that “the conditions of detention centers mean that europeans shouldn't be worried about muslims“ (from your post).

Why though? What's the relevance? Do you bring up the persecution of religious minorities in muslim countries when muslims complain about "islamophobia"?

I quote one of your previous posts: “Syrian refugees pass through MULTIPLE safe countries before going to rich countries like the UK, Germany and Sweden.”

Are any of those safe countries NON-muslim majority?

Obviously I mean country of origin you twat.

 

[durrrrr]

if one nation come sback i will literally wear a nazi uniform to their rallies

thattaboy

 

[Baggypants]

Yet, Hanson prefers same sex marriage to stay illegal.

 

[Baggypants]

I'm just gona say something over here. Excuse me if I go over on a tangent, but I'm gonna say a lot of different things quite randomly and whether you agree with it or not, I'd like your input. Anyways...

Do you remember the guy on the news from Epping Boys High School? His name was Tamim and he tried to sneak from Australia to Syria to join ISIS. I have a friend who was in the same year as him and in the same school. And according to my friend, although Tamim was born and raised in a muslim family, he wasn't religious. Although all of a sudden he started to have some really extreme views. ----> And now fast forward to what happened in Nice, the neighbours and family of the man who killed all those people also said that he wasn't religious. I quote, "he didn't fast, and he didn't pray." I will point out that as far as I know, the majority of the ISIS attacks in western countries were done by those who were brought up in the western world, so generally speaking immigrants are unlikely to be carrying out these terror attacks. However, I do believe there are some of those immigrants who aren't refugees. As someone already said, some of the alleged migrants are committing crimes and such in their detention centre, I don't think people like that are genuine migrants, instead are probably just finding a cheaper way to get into Australia. But, it was reported that the majority of the immigrants on Manus Island were genuine refugees. Taking all that into consideration, I believe that since Australia is capable of helping the genuine refugees out, then we have a moral right obligation to do so. However I think each person should be checked to see whether or not they're genuine refugees and their criminal history should be checked if it is available.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, but a lot of the genuine refugees were professionals in their respective countries, whether it's in trades or in medicine. Germany has made it compulsory for refugees to learn German, and I think if Australia did the same for refugees to learn English, then these refugees could become like Australian citizens and contribute to a part of out society by working in their respective profession.

I see a lot of people especially on the Facebook comments saying that Muslim leaders should be doing something about the radicalisation of Muslims. I don't know what goes on in every Mosque, I do know about a few such as Imam Hasan Centre in Annangrove who around last week have had speakers from various faiths come in to speak to everyone. The goal was to promote friendship and unity amongst Muslims and non Muslims. You can check the Imam Hasan Centre Page on FB, they have a small sample of what one of the speakers were saying.

And another controversial thing I want to bring up is, halal slaughter. So I see people arguing over how it's considered barbaric but the halal slaughter that takes place in Australia abides be the Australian laws, meaning the animals are stunned before being cut. From my travels around Pakistan and India, I've seen chickens get slaughtered the halal way and it truly is quite bloody, but the chickens are dead within about 10 to 15 seconds and they seem to have been kept in better quality than the chickens you would see on the news that are locked in cages. TBH i don't know which method is better. The halal way, as I outlined before, or the normal way, where chickens are hung upside down and clubbed to death. Both kinda make me wana become vegan.

Sooo, hope you enjoyed my essay lol. But I'm keen to see what your opinions are on those random topics.

 

[durrrrr]

I spell again: I was talking about my thoughts/feelings towards muslims. Never did I mention “islamophobia” complaints by muslims. Edit: Again, I was talking about my thoughts/feelings about "islamophobia".

To the second question: I did not. But I do see the possibility of persecution of religious minorities (e.g. christians) in muslim countries.

you make no sense

why did you bring up detention centers? You say you're not letting the media make you afraid of muslims, and your proof that we don't need to be scared of muslims is the horrendous crimes committed by muslims in detention centres.

Then they hide their country of origin.

You can call me whatever name you want, sir
But, this is good entertainment.

Then they aren't allowed in.

 

[durrrrr]

Me too.

Here's one example to support your point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munjed_Al_Muderis

Oh wow, one person. What a great argument.

Even if genuine refugees were not professionals in their home countries, I still believe that they have the potential to make great contributions to Australia.

That's garbage. Most of them are low IQ, are a drain on the government and have backward culture and beliefs.

If they were so great, then muslim countries wouldn't be poor backward shitholes.

 

[durrrrr]

average syrian IQ is 83

yeah wow they're gonna make such productive members of society

 

[Baggypants]

News sources say that most of the asylum seekers are genuine. I believe we have a moral obligation to help them. The genuine syrian refugees, don't really have a way of getting to a safe country other than by boat since no planes go there anymore. They're basically being carpet bombed, so I can imagine how getting onto a random boat would be one of their only other options. However I also agree that refugees who aren't genuine shouldn't be allowed in.

Yeah, I agree with the part that there is something inherently wrong with the muslim community, and I've gathered that the elder muslims tend to hold slightly more extreme views if any. One of the scholars said something quite true, and that is, that muslims will view their religion through their culture. Explains why muslims of pure french or russian origin are much more civilised in comparison to muslims from Saudi lol.

The younger muslims I've talked to don't give a rats ass if someone's LGBT but few have said they find people like that weird and wouldn't wana hang around them, whereas I know a couple who are close friends with a few gay people. And the adults I've talked to don't wana be around anyone LBGT, but all that I've talked to also agree that killing them is wrong.
And about your 2nd last paragraph, this centre is genuine. I know because non-muslims were invited to the eid gathering around the mosque many times before and they didn't have anyone there to publicise this (i.e no cameras, no reporters, etc).

 

[durrrrr]

I reiterate: In my first post, I was talking about “I”, not “we”.

Okay, WHY? What do the conditions in detention centers have to do with whether or not muslims are a danger to western society?

How would you verify their home country then?

A verifiably genuine passport??

15 muslim Australians here (discount one, who is a convert to Islam). Not necessarily refugees, but muslim nevertheless.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/1...t-have-known-were-muslim-2014-11#Bachar Houli

Most of these people are not famous, complete dickheads or are inconsequential (oh wow someone who does tawkwondoe is muslim how amazing for australia)

So, they are low IQ. Fine. I still think that people of low IQ can contribute greatly to Australia.

No, they can't. They are a drain on society.

A few generations later in Australia should see their descendants increase their IQ, perhaps even up to par with White Australians, once all other inequalities are accounted for.

This is empirically false. If they were as intelligent as white people, their countries would have been wealthy to begin with. Australia wasn't a prosperous, developed country with high living standards when white people showed up. It was MUCH worse than modern (pre civil war) Syria. It was made wealthy due to the ingenuity of europeans. You speak of "inequality" as if it were some part of nature, as if Australia is an inherntly prosperous place that europeans happened to end up living in.

The inequality in material conditions between the west and muslim countries is caused by the inequality of people.

“are a drain on the government”... every investment is a “drain/cost” at first, right?

They're not an investment at all though. They will always be a drain. They use up welfare, have too many kids and then use up even more welfare. All the while taking money away from people, taxpayers, who would have put that money towards actual investments.

You can say that social science is garbage…. that’s up to you.
Edit: But your argument at this point is garbage, unless you have science to back it up.
Your rebuttals aren’t holding water at this point.

Social science isn't garbage.

You have no proof that these people won't continue to be a drain on society.

Umm….. they left their “poor backward shitholes”. These people may very well think so too.

Why were they poor and backward to begin with though? Because of their low IQs and their idiotic religion!

If europeans took over countries like syria then those places would become wealthy and progressive.

It's why Israel is so much wealthier than all of its neighbours. Jews have very high IQs compared to the rest of the middle east.

 

[Baggypants]

My source for the majority of refugees coming to Oz being genuine was the news channel (7 news i think). Now, whether the news had the correct information or not, I don't know.

For your last paragraph, yeah I was one of the non muslims who went to their gatherings. I fit there pretty well haha, but probably coz I'm also Pakistani aswell. Ah but the muslims I've met seem to be quite happy with Australia the way it is. They respect my beliefs and the beliefs of others as well. But of course there will always be a few nut jobs.
As for the part where you said the converts are also committing terror attacks, I think it's because they may have been converted by a muslim with radical beliefs. Like Neil Prakash, who already was known to police as a criminal and I think that by ISIS giving him the opportunity, their ideas probably appealed to him. I also know a bogan australian who converted to islam and now hes a bogan muslim lol, and he's a lot more different to the converts you've listed, which is why i believe it boils down to what they were like before converting and it also depends on what sort of beliefs the person who converted him had.
I believe some muslims are doing what they can to help get rid of radicalisation like the mosque I mentioned earlier, there's another one in Granville and another one in Lidcombe in sydney. The mosque in annangrove and granville are shia mosques and the one in lidcomb is run by sunni muslims and they held an anti ISIS protest in the Sydney CBD in 2014.
Btw there's a sect of islam called wahabiism, and that I believe is where the radial beliefs stem from. Well that's what I've been told anyway. You might wana look into it as well if you don't think i'm correct.

 

[Baggypants]

I'm agnostic and my parents are Muslim. So im sure you can see why I'm up to defend muslims? And in case you're probably wondering if my parents know I'm agnostic, then yeah they do.
As for the link, I can't because it was on tv on 7 news probably. I remember the anchor saying that the majority of the refugees on Manus Island are genuine refugees. I'll look for something to support that.

 

[Baggypants]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...efugees-new-figures-show-20160630-gpv5ns.html

 

[Baggypants]

Well, I initially started this thread for the sole purpose of seeing how people view muslims. But I put in a few other points in my post that I was concerned about.
I do think that the refugees from Iran aren't genuine, unless they were LBGT. Then the only logical reason I can see them coming by boat is if their visa got rejected or something like that. But if they're from Syria then they probably are. The only planes that go in and out of Syria are military planes and a lot of the refugees that have settled around Europe were brought in by those military planes. However, if they weren't able to get onto a plane, I can see that they wouldn't have any other choice than to just come by boat.

 

[Baggypants]

This forum was perfect to find the opinions of young Australians. With whirlpool for example you can't really know who's posting.
Sorry, when I was talking about Syrian refugees I was meant to clarify about how they're getting to Europe.