People who like Australian Idol should Die! (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

yea, and people will probably buy it.
Seriously tho, it's not just media tricks and manipulation.. i think some of u 'true musicians' need to realise that people like this 'mindless dribble'.

 

[ur_inner_child]

It's different for you than it is for a professional musician. For me, it's a reminder that the music industry is full of shit, and will reward mediocre and painful performances over true talent. This is, for better or worse, the industry that all musicians reside in, and it's stupid that Art musicians linger in obscurity while mediocre can't-sing "performers" get so much publicity that you can't avoid it whatever you do.

And it's not just the pop-versus-art thing either. I've watched quite a bit of the National Karaoke Challenge - this show is putting out acts of a far superior quality to anything on Australian Idol. Think anybody cares? Nope, because the media has told them that they're not important. If the media told everybody that the music of Andriessen was "fully sick", you'd find 15 year olds going out to find the latest Andriessen recordings. That's not what music should be about.

I don't agree. Hmmm. Personally our music, Phanatical isn't particularly aimed at stupid naive 15 year olds. So I don't particularly mind if those 15 year olds feed on poor crappy music.

It's like you measure the success and value of music by public recognition and wealth? I don't deny that people who make it to the big time (eg Ashlee Simpson who is CRAP), are richer than any classical musician, but if one is really concerned about money determining success, than classical music isn't for them. And I think you know that. Otherwise you'd stray from classical music, or at least dabble in some other music field.

You make it as though no one appreciates classical music, that it has little value, that it's a "minority". Hardly. It is incredibly valued. You'd find that many would surround your piano (if you play the piano, whatever instrument), even if you play classical, that your audience would be in total awe.

The thing about POP music and all that crap is that it engages the audience in a baser level: eg: sing along with it, have lyrics to relate or understand so they don't have to use their imagination etc. You must admit to doing that at some stage. It doesn't take much intelligence to suddenly feel good about a song that has articulated something you've felt but couldn't explain it. It takes a TAD more intelligence to sit there and TRULY experience classical music, not saying that those who love pop music are not intelligent. I'm sure ALL classical musicians/fans also love some form of "mainstream" music.

I think I sung along to savage garden in year 6, "Truly Madly Deeply" and it only uses four chords. I appreciated this because it was easy to sing for me, engaged me as an audience, and easy enough to sit at the piano and figure it out.

Music isn't about talent. It can be. It should be. Especially if it's music for personal reasons. But if you are concerned about Australia's public, music is then about something else. Music THEN needs two groups. The Musician, and the Audience. Music is about expressing yourself, and sharing it with an audience to appreciate this music, especially to interpret it in their own way.

If the majority of Australia's audience cannot easily relate to classical music, but mainstream music, then it is not THEIR fault that they have chosen so. It is OUR fault as musicians, hence why we try to think of bigger and better things, such as mixing genres, and being experimental. And we DO "succeed" every now and then if you mean "success" as in "recognition", "fame" and "fortune".

Bond, Hans Zimmer, John Williams.

I'm not attacking you or anyone in particular. Just stating that personally, I think its tacky for a classical musician to be pissed off for not being recognised by the majority of Australia....

 

[Phanatical]

Matthew Hindson argued that Pop music is the Folk music of our day, designed to appeal to the mass audience while Art Music was always intended to be appreciated by other musicians. To the extent that the public will never fully accept art music as the popular form, this is true.

However, like Art Music, and Unlike folk music, "Popular" music is Also an elitist product. It is manufactured and marketed so that not everybody can perform it. Unlike periods past, music isn't being created by the people for the people in their communities - it's being created by a collection of "musicians" not too distant from Art musicians, to be marketed for consumption by an audience who do not know better. In This respect, I believe if Art music were marketed as Pop music is today, then Art music would in effect take the place of Pop music.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Yeah I completley agree. It can happen!!! Just that ideas (and finance to market it) have to come to play.

Like Bond and them adding sex appeal to playing a string instrument...

Alicia Keys putting backing an "RnB rhythm" behind Moonlight Sonata.

Imagine a show that was Australian Idol (reality crap), Beauty Contest (sex appeal?), and Classical Music (for Phanatical) rolled into one. I'd watch that.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm with ur_inner_child.
Hay mahn

 

[Phanatical]

Beauty contest. Rules me out, I'm as ugly as they get.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It's not just a beauty contest.....

 

[scruffy012]

too true, with the "death of normality" (Don Burke - Burkes Backyard), television is ment to be an escape, not a fake reality, if you get my drift, personally i hate AI, i think that all Reality shows after the original 'Great Race' (2000ish) that reality tv has gotten out of hand, if this is the way tv is going then it is fucked, mind the language, as people will get over it..... come on who the hell likes Gretal Colleen off BB1,2,3, shes and old bag holding on for dear life........ and bloody Dicko, is a shovenistic prick, who "believes that he is helping people" (off some show when dicko had the psyche at someone - maybe the panel - they had some footage i think????). this reality tv is a load of crap, and thats that


scruffy

 

[Lorie]

I don't agree. Hmmm. Personally our music, Phanatical isn't particularly aimed at stupid naive 15 year olds. So I don't particularly mind if those 15 year olds feed on poor crappy music.

It's like you measure the success and value of music by public recognition and wealth? I don't deny that people who make it to the big time (eg Ashlee Simpson who is CRAP), are richer than any classical musician, but if one is really concerned about money determining success, than classical music isn't for them. And I think you know that. Otherwise you'd stray from classical music, or at least dabble in some other music field.

You make it as though no one appreciates classical music, that it has little value, that it's a "minority". Hardly. It is incredibly valued. You'd find that many would surround your piano (if you play the piano, whatever instrument), even if you play classical, that your audience would be in total awe.

The thing about POP music and all that crap is that it engages the audience in a baser level: eg: sing along with it, have lyrics to relate or understand so they don't have to use their imagination etc. You must admit to doing that at some stage. It doesn't take much intelligence to suddenly feel good about a song that has articulated something you've felt but couldn't explain it. It takes a TAD more intelligence to sit there and TRULY experience classical music, not saying that those who love pop music are not intelligent. I'm sure ALL classical musicians/fans also love some form of "mainstream" music.

I think I sung along to savage garden in year 6, "Truly Madly Deeply" and it only uses four chords. I appreciated this because it was easy to sing for me, engaged me as an audience, and easy enough to sit at the piano and figure it out.

Music isn't about talent. It can be. It should be. Especially if it's music for personal reasons. But if you are concerned about Australia's public, music is then about something else. Music THEN needs two groups. The Musician, and the Audience. Music is about expressing yourself, and sharing it with an audience to appreciate this music, especially to interpret it in their own way.

If the majority of Australia's audience cannot easily relate to classical music, but mainstream music, then it is not THEIR fault that they have chosen so. It is OUR fault as musicians, hence why we try to think of bigger and better things, such as mixing genres, and being experimental. And we DO "succeed" every now and then if you mean "success" as in "recognition", "fame" and "fortune".

Bond, Hans Zimmer, John Williams.

I'm not attacking you or anyone in particular. Just stating that personally, I think its tacky for a classical musician to be pissed off for not being recognised by the majority of Australia....

so true. The thing being about Australian idol is that it is directed towards the pop culture and the fact being it is all about the scene. The stuff that comes outta this isn't music that will become "classic" for people in years to come. Sure it may have short term greatness in record sales (and thats all the record company is after), but that doesn't give the music respect in years to come. Think about it, people have already forgot that guy who won last time, and that red neck with a skid mark under his mouth (shane Noll, or something) has like retired and on the farm. The music that comes outta this will never have the impact that the beatles, bob dylan, Nirvana, REM, ACDC, Rolling stones, Hendrix, NOFX, and so forth have earnt their place in music industry and have deciated fans which follow the band in many years.

Think about it, it's part of the pop culture, and basically goes through fads, which the people who like it quickly get over it. Look spice girls, hanson, N*Sync, backstreet boys etc. which yeah sell a hell of a lot of records, but if u ask anyone who listened to it, they would be so embrassed and odds on that probably have thrown out their records. These artists don't have a strong fan base, they are just part of a fad. However, the continual amount of these fads happen often enough for the record companies to keep going and there seems to more and more of these, and Idol is just another one of those things in 5 or 10 years the people who liked all this will be shaking their heads if they hear it again.

 

[Minai]

I don't agree. Hmmm. Personally our music, Phanatical isn't particularly aimed at stupid naive 15 year olds. So I don't particularly mind if those 15 year olds feed on poor crappy music.

It's like you measure the success and value of music by public recognition and wealth? I don't deny that people who make it to the big time (eg Ashlee Simpson who is CRAP), are richer than any classical musician, but if one is really concerned about money determining success, than classical music isn't for them. And I think you know that. Otherwise you'd stray from classical music, or at least dabble in some other music field.

You make it as though no one appreciates classical music, that it has little value, that it's a "minority". Hardly. It is incredibly valued. You'd find that many would surround your piano (if you play the piano, whatever instrument), even if you play classical, that your audience would be in total awe.

The thing about POP music and all that crap is that it engages the audience in a baser level: eg: sing along with it, have lyrics to relate or understand so they don't have to use their imagination etc. You must admit to doing that at some stage. It doesn't take much intelligence to suddenly feel good about a song that has articulated something you've felt but couldn't explain it. It takes a TAD more intelligence to sit there and TRULY experience classical music, not saying that those who love pop music are not intelligent. I'm sure ALL classical musicians/fans also love some form of "mainstream" music.

I think I sung along to savage garden in year 6, "Truly Madly Deeply" and it only uses four chords. I appreciated this because it was easy to sing for me, engaged me as an audience, and easy enough to sit at the piano and figure it out.

Music isn't about talent. It can be. It should be. Especially if it's music for personal reasons. But if you are concerned about Australia's public, music is then about something else. Music THEN needs two groups. The Musician, and the Audience. Music is about expressing yourself, and sharing it with an audience to appreciate this music, especially to interpret it in their own way.

If the majority of Australia's audience cannot easily relate to classical music, but mainstream music, then it is not THEIR fault that they have chosen so. It is OUR fault as musicians, hence why we try to think of bigger and better things, such as mixing genres, and being experimental. And we DO "succeed" every now and then if you mean "success" as in "recognition", "fame" and "fortune".

Bond, Hans Zimmer, John Williams.

I'm not attacking you or anyone in particular. Just stating that personally, I think its tacky for a classical musician to be pissed off for not being recognised by the majority of Australia....

Well said.

If people measure success and value/talent of music by public recognition and wealth, then pop will shit all over classical and independent music because of marketing, and a wider appeal. Australian Idol is aimed at the pop/mainstream market. As a professional musician, your aim isnt to become rich and famous with fanboys and girls screaming after you - because if thats the case, you'd be in the same class as Idol and pop music.

Classical/art and other alternative forms of music appeal to a very specific audience, so I cant understand why classical type musicians get pissed off at Idol, when Idol doesn't target their audience. Idol gives wannabe pop singers a chance at the mainstream market.

 

[katie_tully]

I've finished twitching.
Australian Idol is shit. Australian Idols are shit-er.
And so are you Nat, shouldnt you be in your car endangering lives?
Thank you, that is all.

 

[crazyhomo]

Well said.

If people measure success and value/talent of music by public recognition and wealth, then pop will shit all over classical and independent music because of marketing, and a wider appeal. Australian Idol is aimed at the pop/mainstream market. As a professional musician, your aim isnt to become rich and famous with fanboys and girls screaming after you - because if thats the case, you'd be in the same class as Idol and pop music.

Classical/art and other alternative forms of music appeal to a very specific audience, so I cant understand why classical type musicians get pissed off at Idol, when Idol doesn't target their audience. Idol gives wannabe pop singers a chance at the mainstream market.

idol targets an audience who don't know what they want, except for the want to conform. by making these kareoke contests 'the mainstream', it becomes even more difficult for musicians to make a living. especially when the record companies have 90% control of what becomes 'the mainstream'

 

[Phanatical]

Your an idiot

So are you. If you're going to call somebody an idiot, at least write properly ."Your an idiot". How stupid can you be?

 

[Phanatical]

You just made the exact same mistake again!

 

[Minai]

idol targets an audience who don't know what they want, except for the want to conform. by making these kareoke contests 'the mainstream', it becomes even more difficult for musicians to make a living. especially when the record companies have 90% control of what becomes 'the mainstream'

are you suggesting that all musicians aspire to become mainstream?

 

[crazyhomo]

are you suggesting that all musicians aspire to become mainstream?

no, i'm suggesting that all musicians aspire to be able to eat

 

[absolution*]

*refers to sig*

 

[ur_inner_child]

no, i'm suggesting that all musicians aspire to be able to eat

anyone that aspires to that field knows the risks involved. i made a poll about it. And musicians usually know what they're getting themselves into. A lot of musicians go into second jobs, not grudgingly, but expectedly. I'd like to get some good money for what I do, or will do, I don't deny that, but I'm fully aware of what I'm getting myself into.

I don't think there's any use of me getting into music at the conservatorium and having a waa about how "little" I can expect from it. How stupid could I be? If I was really concerned in the first place, I would've done something cliche like Law, Medicine, Science, Commerce... all that stuff.

i still think classical musicians know what they're getting themselves into and don't strive for mainstream and disgustingly good pay to be successful in their eyes.

 

[crazyhomo]

anyone that aspires to that field knows the risks involved. i made a poll about it. And musicians usually know what they're getting themselves into. A lot of musicians go into second jobs, not grudgingly, but expectedly. I'd like to get some good money for what I do, or will do, I don't deny that, but I'm fully aware of what I'm getting myself into.

I don't think there's any use of me getting into music at the conservatorium and having a waa about how "little" I can expect from it. How stupid could I be? If I was really concerned in the first place, I would've done something cliche like Law, Medicine, Science, Commerce... all that stuff.

i still think classical musicians know what they're getting themselves into and don't strive for mainstream and disgustingly good pay to be successful in their eyes.

so you're saying that because musicians expect to have an extremely difficult time making a living, that this is the way it should be? i could apply that same logic to women voting, well they didn't expect to be able to vote, so what are they complaining about

i'm not saying that the goal of all musicians is to be mainstream and rich, but does that mean that they should be expected to hold a second fulltime job just to make ends meet?

 

[Phanatical]

It will be a great day when the Art musician (who has spent years in music school fine tuning their art) can get a million dollar contract to put out music, while the pop musician has to take out a non-musical full time job to make their ends meet.