Poll - do you care about poverty (1 Viewer)

[ogmzergrush]

dont laugh, i was playin cricket and we lost the ball one of mates smacked a big six in to the bushes.

at the end of the match, this lets say hobo found the ball and returned it to us. And then he explained to us that he was good cricket players and wanted to join our team. my captain took it seriously, and then asked for his home number to give the details.

he replied he doesnt have a number, later he said that his mom lives at home. then we asked where he lives, he pointed just at the back ground in the ditch, so we got his number and we told him we will give him a call.

the guy was a complete retard, i doubt he was on centrelink probably not smart enough to go there. that is not poverty the guy, surely must have fucked his life at somepoint.

Great story!

Pverty in australia is mostly caused by people fucking up their own lives, gambling, smokin drugs etc. where as in africa, they are poor basically as soon as they are born. there is a clear difference.

Good to see you're in a position to make that call, one day I too will know everything. Regarding the clear difference, why are people born into poverty in Africa or elsewhere (Reasons for every case please, you're obviously well informed on all of them)? What about people living in poverty here (Again, every case please, it shouldn't take you too long because you seem to be quite casual about your knowledge in this field)? Are you comfortable enough in your awareness of everything to put the needs of one group of obviously quite needy above others? Compassion and empathy, at least in my books, don't hinge too heavily upon blame for the individual's circumstances. Why don't we tell people in Africa to get their government to sort it out, seeing as it's been their wars, their corruption, and whatever else? People in south africa with aids, they're doing it to each other, why not let them sort it out themselves? Oh that's right, because blaming people for their situation isnt' constructive in the slightest, and the only purpose it serves is to avoid responsibility for dealing with issues which exist.

Centrelink is awesome, not all countries have this welfare system. only a few do. its good, the average man can get some money by doing nothing. i dont know why u laugh, but get acquainted to the realism of life u dont become poor in australia just like that- u have to fuck up. and essentially thats ur fault.

The average man obviously isn't who we're talking about here. Money for nothing is similarly unrelated. While we're all aware of these points, I'd imagine that you are similarly aware of the fact that centrelink does fail to meet the needs of various sections of our society. Again, I laugh at your narrow view of the causes of domestic poverty, and your "my life is good so it must be that way for everyone else in Australia too, and if it isn't then it's their fault" approach to the issue. Let's hope that, in the unlikely event anything goes wrong for you (seeing as you're so on the ball with everything), the system affords you a little more help than you seem willing to afford those who are in similarly bad situations.

 

[HotShot]

Great story!


Good to see you're in a position to make that call, one day I too will know everything. Regarding the clear difference, why are people born into poverty in Africa or elsewhere (Reasons for every case please, you're obviously well informed on all of them)? What about people living in poverty here (Again, every case please, it shouldn't take you too long because you seem to be quite casual about your knowledge in this field)? Are you comfortable enough in your awareness of everything to put the needs of one group of obviously quite needy above others? Compassion and empathy, at least in my books, don't hinge too heavily upon blame for the individual's circumstances. Why don't we tell people in Africa to get their government to sort it out, seeing as it's been their wars, their corruption, and whatever else? People in south africa with aids, they're doing it to each other, why not let them sort it out themselves? Oh that's right, because blaming people for their situation isnt' constructive in the slightest, and the only purpose it serves is to avoid responsibility for dealing with issues which exist.


The average man obviously isn't who we're talking about here. Money for nothing is similarly unrelated. While we're all aware of these points, I'd imagine that you are similarly aware of the fact that centrelink does fail to meet the needs of various sections of our society. Again, I laugh at your narrow view of the causes of domestic poverty, and your "my life is good so it must be that way for everyone else in Australia too, and if it isn't then it's their fault" approach to the issue. Let's hope that, in the unlikely event anything goes wrong for you (seeing as you're so on the ball with everything), the system affords you a little more help than you seem willing to afford those who are in similarly bad situations.

trust me, living in australia is a lot better than living in africa. although i am grossly generalising, the fact is poverty in australia is different than in africa. in africa u say aids- well exactly they are already poor can barely afford the essentials and quite a lot of them have aids. i say how many poor people in australia have aids? aids hasnt a got a cure, its preventable but they cant afford even that.

as for the 'story' it actually happened about a month ago, the team was cracking up, but the captain took it seriously. knowing him he would have called him up, and judging by the hobo, he would have forgotten wat happened orhis mum would have said fuck u.

i am saying, in australia u have a chance to get out of poverty might be hard, but u have chance, there are people generous enough to help u out. africa there is no one as nearly everyone is poor, or those that are rich are fucked in their brains people in poverty in australia have a chance, there is the smith family and various organisations that take care of them, then are those that work hard and manage to get out of poverty, where as in africa its very very ver difficult to get out poverty. when you are born in africa you struggle to live - just to live the next day, in australia u have medicare. centre link the dole. and here we have whinging (not complaining cos complainin is gud), that we need to worry about australian poverty, we do! but we need to understand that the africaans depend on us and rely on us to save them. i am not saying though, we need donate money and charity etc. but just to understand how grateful australia as a country is and how grateful the people are. a gud example is the tsumani cricket match, we raised quite a bit there, a rush job very successful.

 

[ameh]

Hey everyone,

after discussions about the MAKEPOVERTYHISTORY campaign, I was wondering who here cares about poverty.

So, how much does extreme poverty affect you? Im not asking if you agree with the mph campaign or not, I'm just asking how much you care about poverty.

I do. Extreme poverty doesn't affect me. Good. I care.

 

[ameh]

trust me, living in australia is a lot better than living in africa. although i am grossly generalising, the fact is poverty in australia is different than in africa. in africa u say aids- well exactly they are already poor can barely afford the essentials and quite a lot of them have aids. i say how many poor people in australia have aids? aids hasnt a got a cure, its preventable but they cant afford even that.

You're right, living in Australia is a lot better than living in Africa. I needed someone to point that out to me, because I figured HEY I wonder if Nigeria is all that it's cracked up to be, like in the Tourism ads for Zebras and such. Wildlife parks etc. etc. Then again i am grossly generalising.

i am saying, in australia u have a chance to get out of poverty might be hard, but u have chance, there are people generous enough to help u out. africa there is no one as nearly everyone is poor, or those that are rich are fucked in their brains

Yes, yes they are. And the poor brought poverty unto themselves.

people in poverty in australia have a chance, there is the smith family and various organisations that take care of them, then are those that work hard and manage to get out of poverty, where as in africa its very very ver difficult to get out poverty. when you are born in africa you struggle to live - just to live the next day, in australia u have medicare. centre link the dole. and here we have whinging (not complaining cos complainin is gud), that we need to worry about australian poverty, we do! but we need to understand that the africaans depend on us and rely on us to save them.

They do, Really?

i am not saying though, we need donate money and charity etc. but just to understand how grateful australia as a country is and how grateful the people are. a gud example is the tsumani cricket match, we raised quite a bit there, a rush job very successful

 

[katie_tully]

For fucks sake hot-shot, do you get sick of talking out of your arse?

 

[HotShot]

Yes, yes they are. And the poor brought poverty unto themselves.

so tell me how do people in australia become 'poor'. losing their jobs?- whose fault is that? gambling, smokin, drgus? having too many babies? i am saying in australia you have choice.

in africa you have no choice.

 

[katie_tully]

O...k...and the people that were born into disadvantaged families, and therefore didn't recieve the same kind of opportunities that others do...that's their fault?

A child born into a family of drug addiction, who has to leave school early to get a low paying job to support themselves...that's their fault? They chose that, did they?

Teenagers who leave home to live on the street because their family life is non existant? Those who escape a cycle of drug abuse and domestic violence...so, they chose that life?

You people are fucking gronks, honestly.

 

[HotShot]

O...k...and the people that were born into disadvantaged families, and therefore didn't recieve the same kind of opportunities that others do...that's their fault?

A child born into a family of drug addiction, who has to leave school early to get a low paying job to support themselves...that's their fault? They chose that, did they?

Teenagers who leave home to live on the street because their family life is non existant? Those who escape a cycle of drug abuse and domestic violence...so, they chose that life?

You people are fucking gronks, honestly.

thats thier parents fault they should have done a better job. they had the choice not to have a baby. there millions of kids who live in poor families, who come out work hard get a good job and start a proper, millions all around the world even in Australia. just little bit of hard works, resistance pays work. but unlike other countries, in Australia you have best oppurtinity to get of pverty, free education. which country free education? omfg with education you can get a scholorship or get into university get a job and pay off the hecs, live on centrelink.

i think u being lets say, not aware that poverty exists all over the world. but in Australia you have the best oppurtinity to get out of it.

A child born into a family of drug addiction, who has to leave school early to get a low paying job to support themselves...that's their fault? They chose that, did they?

i know a lot 'poor' friends, that work part time, go to school come back home and look after their parent. its called working hard. school is virtuall free, u can get assistance from the school financially. free bus pass, and train pass for traveling. u cant do this in any other country especially education is very expensive in third world countries.

personally, get real!

 

[katie_tully]

thats thier parents fault they should have done a better job. they had the choice not to have a baby.

The family is poor, doofus. They may not have been able to afford an abortion. Perhaps they could not have afforded contraception, or perhaps the contraception was ineffective. You cannot expect poor people not to have sex, just because they're poor.

thier parents fault they should have done a better job

Therefore it being their parents fault, it is not their fault. If poverty is chosen, as you say, how can you say the child chose poverty, because it's their parents fault? Think about that.

there millions of kids who live in poor families, who come out work hard get a good job and start a proper, millions all around the world even in Australia.

Quote your source. If that were the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Because the people in poverty would have gotten off their arses and chose not to be poor. Not just in Australia, but around the world.

unlike other countries, in Australia you have best oppurtinity to get of pverty, free education. which country free education? omfg with education you can get a scholorship or get into university get a job and pay off the hecs, live on centrelink.

Yaaaay, let's all live off Centrelink! Let's all become welfare dependant, coz it's better than being in poverty. Did you read anything I said?
Some people come from such poor, uneducated backgrounds, that just staying at school is not a viable option.
Incase you haven't noticed, going to university regardless of whether you get HECS help, is not cheap. Text books, fees, equipment. Who pays for that?
Oh that's right... Centrelink. Who pays for Centrelink? Ah, the taxpayer.

You need to be able to demonstrate a high standard of work to gain many scholarships. Some others are dependant on financial distress, however there are only limited scholarships given for this.
So everybody should apply for a scholarship. And if you don't get it? Then what?

i know a lot 'poor' friends, that work part time, go to school come back home and look after their parent. its called working hard. school is virtuall free, u can get assistance from the school financially. free bus pass, and train pass for traveling. u cant do this in any other country especially education is very expensive in third world countries.

Poor does not necessarily equate to "poverty". Look up the word poverty, and then come back.

 

[HotShot]

The family is poor, doofus. They may not have been able to afford an abortion. Perhaps they could not have afforded contraception, or perhaps the contraception was ineffective. You cannot expect poor people not to have sex, just because they're poor.
Therefore it being their parents fault, it is not their fault. If poverty is chosen, as you say, how can you say the child chose poverty, because it's their parents fault? Think about that.
quote your source. If that were the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Because the people in poverty would have gotten off their arses and chose not to be poor. Not just in Australia, but around the world.
Yaaaay, let's all live off Centrelink! Let's all become welfare dependant, coz it's better than being in poverty. Did you read anything I said?
Some people come from such poor, uneducated backgrounds, that just staying at school is not a viable option.
Incase you haven't noticed, going to university regardless of whether you get HECS help, is not cheap. Text books, fees, equipment. Who pays for that?
Oh that's right... Centrelink. Who pays for Centrelink? Ah, the taxpayer.
You need to be able to demonstrate a high standard of work to gain many scholarships. Some others are dependant on financial distress, however there are only limited scholarships given for this.
So everybody should apply for a scholarship. And if you don't get it? Then what?
poor does not necessarily equate to "poverty". Look up the word poverty, and then come back.

after all of that u didnt understand that point, how many countries do you tthink offer a loan to their citizens for uni. i think prob australia might be the only one. maybe britain or american ( i am not sure) but definitely not africa. yeah it costs money, but scab of centrelink, then get job and be rich.

where as in africa they have no oppurtinity to do so.

 

[ButterflyFish]

Hey!
I know I'm reviving this topic again, sorry
Its nice to know that the people on BOS arent as heartless as they seem in so many threads... over 40% at least admit they care.

But for all you people who are saying 'we cant do anything anyway' - there is so much that we can do as students (i understand, usually without money to give away). Our generation has the oppurtunity to halve extreme poverty by 2015, and how exactly this is to be carried out is set out by the UN in the form of the millenium development goals.

As young people, our voices are really important and we need to first educate ourselves about the issues. Then, there are many ways we can advocate, fundraise or volunteer to help. For example, signing the make poverty history pledge may not be much, but it has already proved to achieve some positive results. it is the world's largest human rights campaign. (www.makepovertyhistory.com.au)

The campaign is calling for trade justice, dropping the debt and of course, more aid.

Otherwise there are thousands of ways an individual can help, i would list them all but this is already a long post (sorry guys) so if you are interested you should be able to find all the information you need and more at www.stir.org.au - a website specifically designed to empower our generation. It also explains many of your arguments about helping australia first, about HIV/AIDS, Fair trade, mph, child exploitation etc.

Well im most likely going to be attacked by sceptical people, so id like to ask you to please go there and find out the facts before you attack me personally

 

[fleepbasding]

As far as I know the millenium goals aren't being achieved very well in most areas.

 

[ButterflyFish]

But there has been some progress.
You are right - countries are not meeting their promised targets, which is why we need to keep the pressure on...
Like i said before, go to that site

 

[banco55]

But there has been some progress.
You are right - countries are not meeting their promised targets, which is why we need to keep the pressure on...
Like i said before, go to that site

I'm not sure it's coincidental that all the big sucess stories as far as 3rd to 1st world didn't rely heavily on aid. Development seems to have much more to do with internal politics than what external actors do. Take a look at Uganda where a small minority of East Asians controlled most of the wealth because they were far more business minded than the rest of the country. Idi Amin kicked them out and Uganda has been a basket case since. Meanwhile those East Asians mostly went to the UK thirty years later they are prosperous and I believe a few of them are worth more than a 100 million pounds.

 

[ButterflyFish]

many of these countries are being crippled by international policies such as unfair trade laws and huge foriegn debt that they will never pay off...

With many ngos, for example world vision, the attitude towards giving aid is 'helping the people help themselves' - ultimately they have to make the changes but we can go in and help get them started

 

[banco55]

many of these countries are being crippled by international policies such as unfair trade laws and huge foriegn debt that they will never pay off...

With many ngos, for example world vision, the attitude towards giving aid is 'helping the people help themselves' - ultimately they have to make the changes but we can go in and help get them started

I still think it's better to do something than do nothing but I'm still skeptical it will have much effect. Assuming the debt's wiped who do you think will loan them money in the future?

 

[ButterflyFish]

I still think it's better to do something than do nothing but I'm still skeptical it will have much effect. Assuming the debt's wiped who do you think will loan them money in the future?

making trade laws fair: these countries will be aable to compete on a fair and equal ground, and build up financial capacity for themselves

dropping the debt: the government can invest what would have been paid in debt in essential infrastructure such as education and healthcare... I think the 'who will loan them money in the future' question is pretty irrelevant.

more aid. Its good to question this and be skeptical, i certainly did for a while until i actually went and did the research. You have to be very careful who you do give your money to, do the research ... from what I know, world vision (im a little biased there, though ) Oxfam, red cross and unicef are all good and concentrate on sustainable development, im sure there are others but just check them out first. Aid is essential and everyone should be doing something.

another rant from me

like i said, stir.org.au

 

[banco55]

making trade laws fair: these countries will be aable to compete on a fair and equal ground, and build up financial capacity for themselves

dropping the debt: the government can invest what would have been paid in debt in essential infrastructure such as education and healthcare... I think the 'who will loan them money in the future' question is pretty irrelevant.

more aid. Its good to question this and be skeptical, i certainly did for a while until i actually went and did the research. You have to be very careful who you do give your money to, do the research ... from what I know, world vision (im a little biased there, though ) Oxfam, red cross and unicef are all good and concentrate on sustainable development, im sure there are others but just check them out first. Aid is essential and everyone should be doing something.

another rant from me

like i said, stir.org.au

I'm skeptical of the trade law barriers making more than a small difference with regards to africa. If trade laws were dropped universally you'd probably find by far the biggest beneficiaries would be East Asian countries and South America.
Surely where you are going to obtain capital from is one of the most relevant questions any macro-economist would ask? Even if they were to redirect all the money they spend on servicing foreign debt it would still be pittance and not enough to fund infrastructure etc. They'd have to borrow money at least in the medium to short term to develop their economies. Who's going to lend to them if they don't pay banks back? The only banks that will be prepared to lend to them will jack the interest rates up real high to factor in their crappy credit rating.

 

[_dhj_]

A worldwide drop of agricultural trade barriers would definately benefit the agricultural producers of the world - i.e. Africa, Australia, South America. But the likes of U.S., Europe, and Japan are keen to subsidise their farmers and impose tariffs.

 

[banco55]

A worldwide drop of agricultural trade barriers would definately benefit the agricultural producers of the world - i.e. Africa, Australia, South America. But the likes of U.S., Europe, and Japan are keen to subsidise their farmers and impose tariffs.

I don't really blame them. Isn't a countries first duty to its citizens? You could write off the French agricultural industry and much of the french countryside if you got rid of subsidies and tariffs for example.