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PoMo - do u believe in it? (1 Viewer)

miss_salty

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having being immersed in postmodernism for more than 6months now, i wonder what u guys think of it. Espescially the people who are deeply religious - what do u make of pomo? A load of crap? can the principles of pomo coexist with religious belief? This chick in my class absolutely hates pomo but wont clarify why.
 

arielbelle

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i think it's important that we study and perceive pomo as a way of thinking or an attitude rather than a set of indoctrinations. i reside with williamson's view that it whilst it offers some insight into literary theory, academia etc, it does not embody the whole thing. nobody likes to think of themselves as 'social constructs', merely a product of their epoch, yet it is also true that to some extent, we are being inevitably influenced by our society, the media (those in power), the stereotypical gender portrayal of the 'Petruchio'. only extremists would say pomo is the absolute attitude/truth (ironic, because in pomo there is no absolute). religious ppl would no doubt find pomo offense for it dismantles concept of an essential humanity. i think religion and pomo can co-exist IN PROPORTIONS - believe there is a fundamental liberal humanist value in us yet at the same time acknowledge that we are being influenced by society, some of our peripheral values are constructed by it. nevertheless, i have to say that pomo techniques in books and films are way interesting in exploring literary boundaries.
 

Slidey

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Only some extent? Society moulds us in two ways: school and parents. For homeschooled people it is almost exclusively parents. But society raised those parents. Society is the only thing that CAN mould you, unless you're dropped in the desert at birth and somehow manage to live without any human interaction. Remember religion is a product of society and hence, necessarily, religious or not, society moulds you.

Though I think people really need to consider how society is moulding us and assess what effects that has - good or bad.

I'll shut up now, since I haven't started pomo, yet.
 

AsyLum

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Pomo, is quite outdated to be honest :) the bos really jumped onto the bandwagon a tad late, although its better late than never i guess. Anyways, i think that its a useful tool to understand the movement of society nowdays but not in so far as to accept it as a full truth, that would be going against the core of post modernism now wouldnt it ;)
 

zhongie

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Is Pomo dead? Of course it is, or the Board of Studies would never have caught on.

Whether we can transcend the conventional social construct about the existence of truth and meta-narrative is an individual decision. Personally, on some literary and academic level, I can see the merits of postmodernism, but as an individual, I can't quite suspend my beliefs outside of literature, film and art. Maybe it's because i'm optimistic, I kind of want to believe there is a truth out there, as most humans do. It takes a brave soul to embrace pomo fully.
 

AsyLum

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I never saw post modernism as a movement as an actual genre, just a new perspective with which to see the world in. As a genre its basically "anything goes" and even in its approach to some semblance of philosophical grounding is contradictory to say the least.

I dont think that post-modernism is actually the philosophical movement, i think it was post structuralism and some form of existentialism wasnt it ?

Anyway, the concepts portrayed within post-modernism aren't exactly a 'way of life.'
 

tommywatts

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i think postmodernism gives you a certain freedom . . . so there's no god, no truth . . . does it really matter? i like that postmodernsim recognises that there is no absolute truths and celebrate the loss in a fun and playful manner.
 

AsyLum

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It isnt fun or playful though. The end of universal truths and realities means that ultimately we mean, do, think, act, etc nothing and amounts to nothing.

Pretty horrid to tell you the truth.
 

Jase

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I'd think myself more of a liberal humanist (or some such humanist), although theres no denying some of the *truths* of postmodern ideas. But i have to say, i find most areas of pomo stupid, senseless and self-contradictory. But its fun so yeh.
 

tommywatts

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AsyLum said:
It isnt fun or playful though. The end of universal truths and realities means that ultimately we mean, do, think, act, etc nothing and amounts to nothing.

Pretty horrid to tell you the truth.
I guess pomo is only horrid for those who need to be reassured for their sense of worth and purpose in life . . . But think about it - the things we do - does it really amount to anything? Having said that, i like that pomo is rather optimistic despite the collapse of meta-narratives and absolutes. In a way, this recognition, i believe, allows you to a certain freedom, an "enlightenment" (for want of a better word).

Jase: Pomo is stupid, senseless and self-contradictory - just like life.
 

AsyLum

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tommywatts said:
I guess pomo is only horrid for those who need to be reassured for their sense of worth and purpose in life . . . But think about it - the things we do - does it really amount to anything? Having said that, i like that pomo is rather optimistic despite the collapse of meta-narratives and absolutes. In a way, this recognition, i believe, allows you to a certain freedom, an "enlightenment" (for want of a better word).

Jase: Pomo is stupid, senseless and self-contradictory - just like life.
Reassured for their purpose in life? I dont think so. To question everything you do, to question the validity of every aspect of reality, and what is not. That isnt a life, how could you be truly happy, or find any form of satisfaction. Sure its great in theory to be able to question something but how can you question something when you dont have a basis to work from?

Since you yourself cannot form a basis, as it can be questioned, how can questions be used ? It is contradictory and a very shallow and depressing and pessimistic theory.
 

tommywatts

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AsyLum said:
Reassured for their purpose in life? I dont think so. To question everything you do, to question the validity of every aspect of reality, and what is not. That isnt a life, how could you be truly happy, or find any form of satisfaction. Sure its great in theory to be able to question something but how can you question something when you dont have a basis to work from?

Since you yourself cannot form a basis, as it can be questioned, how can questions be used ? It is contradictory and a very shallow and depressing and pessimistic theory.
Pomo is not an existential crisis. the questions only arise if you are ambivalent/debating about the "truths" of pomo. I doubt that a person who completely embraces pomo would get depressed over purposelessness of our lives. If you are truly comfortable with the precepts of pomo you would just accept that life is a construct; welcome and tolerate a world that is random and absurd. I also dont think you really need a coherent value system and a confirmed reality to be truly happy and satisfied.

I really dont find pomo pessimistic; pomo is superficial and it may be depressing and destructive but the underlying message is laugh at the loss and get over it.

btw im not pomo extremist - rather, (i reiterate) i like that pomo is playful and free.

( dont know waht i wrote makes sense or not but im sleepy)
 

AsyLum

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I agree you do not need a coherent value system to be happy or satisfied, but to not have a confirmed reality means that you cannot in anyway shape or form, actually acknowledge the present, if you reject or do not have a past, so to speak.

If everything is a construct, then one assumes that reality as well as truths are, as suggested by pomo, and as such, means that nothing is really 'real'. Additionally this precept introduces the concept of 'laugh at the loss and get over it' in which rings true the concept of uselessness and inability to change/do/create/etc anything about your world since it does not matter nor does it really 'exist'.

I personally, do not enjoy this suggestion, that what i do is useless. Thats perhaps the view i was trying to purport through my other posts, sorry if it seemed in anyway attacking, i had a read and they did somewhat sound like that :)

I do believe that there are universal truths within life, that there are things which we can change, and things we cant, and that is the beauty and true absurdity of life, structure through chaos in other words. In a seemingly totally random world structure underlies the very essence of life.
 

gemita

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I think a lot of critics of postmodernism get caught up in their fear of its outcome - a meaningless and purposeless existence. No one wants to be a lemming. But I think that this pessimistic interpretation of pomo doesn't fully acknowledge the extremely constructive and progressive nature of pomo. If you look at it 'objectively' (I know, I know, not possible), without focusing on the connotations of pomo values, then you can see that pomo has done a huge amount of work in furthering society and our understanding of it.

Personally, I don't think that the fact that pomo deconstructs texts and ideals is a negative thing. The word 'deconstruct' implies a wrecking or ruining action, a negative one at least. But really to deconstruct can be seen as a positive action. It reveals the agendas and discourses within the texts, thus allowing us to gain a fuller and richer understanding of their context, perspective and ideological purpose. When we have deconstructed a text, we can view it from a far less superficial level, because we understand not only what it is saying but also why and how.

In the field of history, pomo has single-handedly taken huge steps to further and advance historiography and historical practice. Because of pomo, historians are no longer able to make sweeping-judgements, and are far more aware of critically analysing a source before utilising it. The role of purpose and perspective in history has been highlighted, which essentially has all added up to far more sophisticated and in-depth history. Of course, if you take the extremist point of view then pomo renders that past completely irrelevant due to our inability to determine how exactly it was. But even this extreme point of view - while not practical - has made historians at least more aware of the use and abuse of historicism.

To say pomo is dead, I think, is pretty ridiculous. Its implications and long-lasting effects are clear not only in history and literature (even now, the most popular children's books often contain elements of pomo - eg. the Stinky Cheese Man, and those picture books where the characters can be seen in the margins, commenting on the story as it goes along). Watch any ad break on TV and you're bound to see at least 1 pomo influenced ad. Even Dead White Males was inherently postmodern, despite how much Williams claims to despise it. Having the characters all step into Shakesperean characters repeatedly during the play was an obvious pomo device which clearly demonstrates how much of society today is shaped by pomo, even if unintentionally.

I guess the most important thing about pomo is how much more aware we are as a result of having studied it. I find myself reading into things waaay too much now. But that's probably a good thing. IMO, whether you accept or reject pomo depends upon whether you agree with the popular saying that ignorance is bliss. If you prefer to remain unaware and simply live life for what it is, believeing that you are not merely a social construct, then that's totally legitimate and pomo is not for you. But if you prefer to look in to pomo and understand it, regardless of what you might discover about yourself and your society, then that's fair enough too, and I don't think it has to be a negative thing.

*takes deap breath and collapses*
 

tommywatts

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nicely and succinctly expressed, gem.

Asylum > ur pessimistic about the precepts of pomo whereas im more optimistic (even if it means that i am a construct and what i do is useless) :D

im not going to argue any further because it is stupid to argue with other poeple's belief system (like a JW trying to convert a christian) :uhhuh:
 

tommywatts

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nicely and succinctly expressed, gem.

Asylum > ur pessimistic about the precepts of pomo whereas im more optimistic (even if it means that i am a construct and what i do is useless) :D

im not going to argue any further because it is stupid to argue with other poeple's belief system (like a JW trying to convert a christian) :uhhuh:
 

gemita

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I just came across this in another thread:
AsyLum said:
Post-modernism is great, but be warned it is quite hard to click and read at first. Once it 'clicks' then you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.
But then again...
AsyLum said:
It is contradictory and a very shallow and depressing and pessimistic theory.
uhhh....i'm confused.
 

AsyLum

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Well, those two are on pomo as a literary theory (1st) and a socio-personal theory (2nd)
 

AsyLum

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gemita said:
I think a lot of critics of postmodernism get caught up in their fear of its outcome - a meaningless and purposeless existence. No one wants to be a lemming. But I think that this pessimistic interpretation of pomo doesn't fully acknowledge the extremely constructive and progressive nature of pomo. If you look at it 'objectively' (I know, I know, not possible), without focusing on the connotations of pomo values, then you can see that pomo has done a huge amount of work in furthering society and our understanding of it.

Personally, I don't think that the fact that pomo deconstructs texts and ideals is a negative thing. The word 'deconstruct' implies a wrecking or ruining action, a negative one at least. But really to deconstruct can be seen as a positive action. It reveals the agendas and discourses within the texts, thus allowing us to gain a fuller and richer understanding of their context, perspective and ideological purpose. When we have deconstructed a text, we can view it from a far less superficial level, because we understand not only what it is saying but also why and how.

In the field of history, pomo has single-handedly taken huge steps to further and advance historiography and historical practice. Because of pomo, historians are no longer able to make sweeping-judgements, and are far more aware of critically analysing a source before utilising it. The role of purpose and perspective in history has been highlighted, which essentially has all added up to far more sophisticated and in-depth history. Of course, if you take the extremist point of view then pomo renders that past completely irrelevant due to our inability to determine how exactly it was. But even this extreme point of view - while not practical - has made historians at least more aware of the use and abuse of historicism.

To say pomo is dead, I think, is pretty ridiculous. Its implications and long-lasting effects are clear not only in history and literature (even now, the most popular children's books often contain elements of pomo - eg. the Stinky Cheese Man, and those picture books where the characters can be seen in the margins, commenting on the story as it goes along). Watch any ad break on TV and you're bound to see at least 1 pomo influenced ad. Even Dead White Males was inherently postmodern, despite how much Williams claims to despise it. Having the characters all step into Shakesperean characters repeatedly during the play was an obvious pomo device which clearly demonstrates how much of society today is shaped by pomo, even if unintentionally.

I guess the most important thing about pomo is how much more aware we are as a result of having studied it. I find myself reading into things waaay too much now. But that's probably a good thing. IMO, whether you accept or reject pomo depends upon whether you agree with the popular saying that ignorance is bliss. If you prefer to remain unaware and simply live life for what it is, believeing that you are not merely a social construct, then that's totally legitimate and pomo is not for you. But if you prefer to look in to pomo and understand it, regardless of what you might discover about yourself and your society, then that's fair enough too, and I don't think it has to be a negative thing.

*takes deap breath and collapses*

Hehe a lot of valid points raised there, but i must make sure to remind people, there is a BIG difference between the various pomo theories.

Even at its simplest there are radical pomo, but more importantly, i was debating pomo as a social theory with which to live, rather than the academic one with which you speak.

There is a marked difference, as one you can apply and analyse accordingly, whereas the social theory itself means that you view it in one cast, as you are following the notion of the pomo theory.

Just wanted to clear that up.
 

Li0n

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yaeh!
and pythagoras is dead!

and also
you need to apply the rules of calculus to use calcalus you BAAKAs!

i summed it all up :)
 
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