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Post ur IPT Multiple Choice Answers Here (1 Viewer)

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Martyno1 said:
I'm pretty sure 12 is A. Every year so far they've had 5 A answers, 5 B answers, 5 C answers and 5 D answers and for 12 not to be A they'd only have 4 As.
Lol, that's some pretty low-level logic :p

12 Can only be B or D anyway.
 

Hamil

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Based on the "correct answers" posted on page 1 of this thread, I got 16/20 which I'm pretty happy with.
 

UsurpingBean

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My Argument:

12 is A because sure an SQL may have to be used to get a report...but the question specifically asks for the more efficient option now answer me this:

Is it more efficient for this guy to run a simple query on the database thereby being displayed with the records relevant whilst just removing those that aren't and then manually looking for the total which he would have to then record himself or having a report he can activate quickly and print easily into a hard copy which actually displays the totals every week

Edit - add: As per the question the fact that a report can't be done without an SQL means absolutely nothing and as it is just the structured language of a query anyhow the flat file vs relational database argument is also irrelevant and no d is not even an option, it is very inefficient and clearly not the answer; the 'manually count' places it in the obvious incorrect category that C is in too

in Summary yes SQLs must filter data for a report but a report is a formatted sql as opposed to that suggested by B; it is looking for efficiency and thus

clearly the answer is a

Also: Both Jacaranda and Heinemen textbooks state that SQL is not the only way to retrieve data from a database...who said it was? QBE? and I quote this
A query language is a specialised language designed to search a database. There are different query languages each with its own grammar, syntax and vocabulary. SQL is a query language used to access and manipulate data in a relational database
- Heinemann HSC IPT (page 59)

SQL grew out of research on relational database models by IBM
- Heinemann HSC IPT (page 59)

Relational DBMS packages...will usually have a more sophisticated query language - an SQL
- Jacaranda HSC IPT (page 72)

Using an SQL is obviously a lot more complicated than a simple query language on a flat file info system
- Jacaranda HSC IPT (page 73)

An example of retrieving data from a database without SQL is a standard query: (fielda IS EQUAL TO 'example) AND (fieldb DOES NOT CONTAIN 'Example')

That perhaps helps answer anyones questions about flat v relational and SQL but even ignoring those quotes and saying an SQL must take place to generate a report (as I have done above the quotes) my reasoning holds

0.o wait....B.) for EACH age group. An SQL for EACH age group that means several sqls whereas a.) totals for each gender and age group.... so say 5 SQLs which have to be viewed in sql view or a report which shows the totals after one click...well that just wins for a doesn't it. D.) orders records by age followed by gender...in the flatfile this is way more correct than b, too bad it has a bad ending
 
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My rebuttal:

UsurpingBean said:
12 is A because sure an SQL may have to be used to get a report...but the question specifically asks for the more efficient option now answer me this:

Is it more efficient for this guy to run a simple query on the database thereby being displayed with the records relevant whilst just removing those that aren't and then manually looking for the total which he would have to then record himself or having a report he can activate quickly and print easily into a hard copy which actually displays the totals every week
I think you have the wrong idea about SQL. Note that queries are generated WITH SQL.

SQL = Structured Query Langiage.

It is possible to produce ANY result set using SQL, and there, there has never existed, nor will ever probably exist ANY method which is more efficient than SQL.

UsurpingBean said:
in Summary yes SQLs must filter data for a report but a report is a formatted sql as opposed to that suggested by B; it is looking for efficiency and thus
A report is indeed a formatted result set, generated by SQL.
However whether you have:

Query returned two results:
Girls: 21
Boys 20
Or

Genders of 14 year olds
Girls: 21
Boys: 20
Makes no difference in efficiency.

In fact, I will argue that due to the fact that generating a report adds one extra step to the process, above running an SQL query, that just running an SQL query is far more efficient, whereas having the report could be said to be more official - which is not at all what the question asks.

Furthermore, I would like to state, that a report is a formatted result set. It cannot be "ran", as option A suggests.

UsurpingBean said:
Also: Both Jacaranda and Heinemen textbooks state that SQL is not the only way to retrieve data from a database
But it's arguable the most efficient.


UsurpingBean said:
An example of retrieving data from a database without SQL is a standard query: (fielda IS EQUAL TO 'example) AND (fieldb DOES NOT CONTAIN 'Example')
That is actually just a frontend provided by some application to generate the SQL for those actions. Plus it relates closely to SQL.


UsurpingBean said:
0.o wait....B.) for EACH age group. An SQL for EACH age group that means several sqls whereas a.) totals for each gender and age group.... so say 5 SQLs which have to be viewed in sql view or a report which shows the totals after one click...well that just wins for a doesn't it. D.) orders records by age followed by gender...in the flatfile this is way more correct than b, too bad it has a bad ending
I would agree with you if option A read something like;

Construct a series of SQL queries which generate a report that has the totals for each gender and age group.
But it doesn't.

Once again, a report is a formatted set of results. A report cannot be ran, it is not logic, it is not ANY kind of an instruction whatsoever.

A report cannot pull figures, which require this level of complexity in regards to extraction our of it's arse.

Also, to quote from the Heinemann IPT textbook,

Heinemann IPT textbook said:
Before creating a report, the user needs to select the required records by constructing a query.
 

lilkev161

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^ ^ ^


U both have way 2 much time on ur hands....wats done is done!
 

UsurpingBean

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I think you have the wrong idea about SQL. Note that queries are generated WITH SQL.

SQL = Structured Query Langiage (sic)
LOL yes I do know that SQLs are used to generate queries but I was saying this is mostly used in and developed for relational databases so that wasn't part of the argument I was trying to put forward its just that someone said this was the ONLY way to obtain data from a database
without SQL, there is no other way to extract data from a flat-file database.
- actually it was you about your friend. How does he figure? in both hsc ipt textbooks this is clearly disputed for instance LinQ and if you take Heinemann it is clear SQL is a more advanced query language than is required in flat file databases I quoted this before but it was ignored
There are different query languages (used to search a database) SQL [is one such] language
- Heinemann HSC IPT (page59)

It is possible to produce ANY result set using SQL, and there, there has never existed, nor will ever probably exist ANY method which is more efficient than SQL.
OK sure lets say that SQL is infact the most efficient query language

A report is indeed a formatted result set, generated by SQL.
However whether you have:


Quote:
Query returned two results:
Girls: 21
Boys 20

Or


Quote:
Genders of 14 year olds
Girls: 21
Boys: 20

Makes no difference in efficiency.

In fact, I will argue that due to the fact that generating a report adds one extra step to the process, above running an SQL query, that just running an SQL query is far more efficient, whereas having the report could be said to be more official - which is not at all what the question asks.
Ok totally agree here aswell in this scenario a simple SQL query would be more efficient than putting this in a report but this is totally different to the question (see below)

Furthermore, I would like to state, that a report is a formatted result set. It cannot be "ran" (sic), as option A suggests.
Not actually sure what you mean here. A report can be activated as a simple sql query can and is dynamic to changing data in tables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UsurpingBean
Also: Both Jacaranda and Heinemen textbooks state that SQL is not the only way to retrieve data from a database


But it's arguable the most efficient.
Once again sure I'll agree


I would agree with you if option A read something like;


Quote:
Construct a series of SQL queries which generate a report that has the totals for each gender and age group.

But it doesn't.

Once again, a report is a formatted set of results. A report cannot be ran (sic), it is not logic, it is not ANY kind of an instruction whatsoever.

A report cannot pull figures, which require this level of complexity in regards to extraction our of it's arse.
Ok all those previous quotes were merely explaining myself as to non important issues that don't relate to the answer but here is where my argument comes in.

You say that it does not mention using SQLs to create the report to get the totals whilst saying that reports always use SQLs?

From exam:
a. Construct and run a report that produces totals for each gender and age group
It does not mention that it uses SQLs to find the total but we both know it has to and it states that it does find the totals so how it does it is irrelevent.
Furthermore let me show you how that would look if it was put into Bs context:
Construct and run a report for each gender and age group to find totals
We then have your supposed answer b.
Construct and run an SQL query for each age group and each gender to find totals
Now that is saying that an SQL is to be run on each age group so for instance on the age group 12-15 with its total. Therefore lets assume there are 5 age groups. The answer b is saying that you must run an SQL for every age group, meaning 5 SQls must be run and totals are then perhaps added together manually.

This contrasts with a. which suggests that the single [not in question but its 'a report' report produces totals for each gender and age group

So to all those stating
Originally Posted by fatkids
Its not possible to "run a report" without doing an SQL query to filter the data. That's what I rekon.
So what? If you read the answer b it clearly mentions multiple SQLs and does not suggest a single SQL can be used for all totals combined whereas a single report, by simply designing it with all the SQLs in basic design view, or perhaps some other method the BOS decided on can produce these totals in a single document. This document can be used every week and is as mentioned earlier able to dynamically change to report new results if the data was to change

Once again, a report is a formatted set of results. A report cannot be ran, it is not logic, it is not ANY kind of an instruction whatsoever.

A report cannot pull figures, which require this level of complexity in regards to extraction our of it's arse.
A report is the formatted output of an SQL
A report cannot be ran (sic)
- what are you basing that on, how do you define run? A report most certainly can be run to display the results from the SQL queries that are incorporated in it as for the instructions or pulling figures out of arses you will need to clarify that for me

Also, to quote from the Heinemann IPT textbook,


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinemann IPT textbook
Before creating a report, the user needs to select the required records by constructing a query
You appear to have accidently increased the text size coloured it red and underlined it because I fail to see how this has relevance to the answer of the question. Of course a report is constructed using queries...how could it not be? I think more focus needs to be put on the comparison of the answers a and b (not d as you once suggested it could be that is clearly an incorrect answer). A problem that appears to be confusing you is my addressing some peoples belief that SQLs are the only method of data extraction and whilst you are free to comment on that stick to arguing for your answer which is what we are here for and argue as to why my logic above about specific wording of the answers is incorrect


EDIT: Summary to help you:

B) suggests running multiple SQL queries to obtain totals for each of the age groups - otherwise it would use wording from (a) 'construct and run an SQL query that produces totals for each gender and age group

A) suggests placing those multiple SQLs into a single report thus meaning that instead of activating 5 separate SQLs one must only activate a single report
 
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UsurpingBean said:
- actually it was you about your friend. How does he figure? in both hsc ipt textbooks this is clearly disputed for instance LinQ and if you take Heinemann it is clear SQL is a more advanced query language than is required in flat file databases I quoted this before but it was ignored
- Heinemann HSC IPT (page59)
The logic is simple. There needs to be a way to get stuff out of a flat-file DB lol.

As for SQL, well you need to understand databases here. SQL is basically a set of specifications. They can be followed entirely, mostly or used for something else.

For example, MySQL, MSSQL and Oracle are all SQL-compatible RDBMSes, however they each use slightly different syntax for certain things, and sql queries are not compatible between them.

There are a lot of query languages, which can loosely be defined as SQL. Just like a router can be loosely defined as a "dsl modem".


UsurpingBean said:
OK sure lets say that SQL is infact the most efficient query language
It's not something we say, it's fact. Ask anyone whom does databases. There's not even any alternative. SQL is IT.


UsurpingBean said:
Not actually sure what you mean here. A report can be activated as a simple sql query can and is dynamic to changing data in tables.
In my understanding, a report is sort of like a formatted output of a query. For example, it could be a .doc or even a .pdf.

UsurpingBean said:
From exam:
I'll take this opportunity to say, that just because it's an option, doesn't mean it's possible. BoS often puts in fake options of things which don't exist, or aren't even possible.

UsurpingBean said:
It does not mention that it uses SQLs to find the total but we both know it has to and it states that it does find the totals so how it does it is irrelevent.
I would agree that there are two ways of looking at that. One is yours, but the way I see it, is that the option implies that it's in fact the report - and nothing else - which does the producing of results. And this isn't possible.


UsurpingBean said:
Now that is saying that an SQL is to be run on each age group so for instance on the age group 12-15 with its total. Therefore lets assume there are 5 age groups. The answer b is saying that you must run an SQL for every age group, meaning 5 SQls must be run and totals are then perhaps added together manually.
I wouldn't say that's the best way of doing it. There are moderate sql instructions which can do the task in one query. However I ask you to consider the following:

1. These complex queries are totally outside the scope of the course
2. They may not be possible, because this is in fact a flat-file database and it does not implement SQL in full
3. Although it's not the most efficient way, from my perspective, it's the only way of doing it. Just because it has to be repeated a few times, does not automatically disqualify it as an option, if it's the only possible or logical option.


UsurpingBean said:
So what? If you read the answer b it clearly mentions multiple SQLs and does not suggest a single SQL can be used for all totals combined whereas a single report, by simply designing it with all the SQLs in basic design view, or perhaps some other method the BOS decided on can produce these totals in a single document. This document can be used every week and is as mentioned earlier able to dynamically change to report new results if the data was to change
Pretty much what we have stated. So what? The fact that it's not possible - that's what. The easiest option isn't the correct option if it's impossible to achieve.

UsurpingBean said:
A report is the formatted output of an SQL
Yes, the output from an SQL queries is generally referred to as a result set.

UsurpingBean said:
- what are you basing that on, how do you define run? A report most certainly can be run to display the results from the SQL queries that are incorporated in it as for the instructions or pulling figures out of arses you will need to clarify that for me
What can be ran? Very single. Executable programs can be ran. Instructions can be ran in/against vertain environments.

Something which is a bunch of text and figures with formatting - which is what a report is - is neither an instruction set, nor an executable program.

UsurpingBean said:
You appear to have accidently increased the text size coloured it red and underlined it because I fail to see how this has relevance to the answer of the question.
Yes....accidentally >_>

The relevance is this, I am outlining why a report cannot be "ran" and why a report cannot "produce" anything, which is relevant to option A of the question.

UsurpingBean said:
Of course a report is constructed using queries...how could it not be? I think more focus needs to be put on the comparison of the answers a and b (not d as you once suggested it could be that is clearly an incorrect answer). A problem that appears to be confusing you is my addressing some peoples belief that SQLs are the only method of data extraction and whilst you are free to comment on that stick to arguing for your answer which is what we are here for and argue as to why my logic above about specific wording of the answers is incorrect
Your statement of "a report is constructed using queries" is ambigous and incorrect. It is not constructed using queries, but it is constructed (although a better word would be generated), using the results obtained from running an SQL query.

I will take this opportunity to state, that a report cannot in any way connect with and extract any information out of the database. It is possible to extract information out of the database using other means (even looking at it) to create the report, yes. But a report itself consists only and only of:

- Control characters for formatting
- Binary data representing values

It cannot contain:

- Executable Code
- Instructions


UsurpingBean said:
A) suggests placing those multiple SQLs into a single report thus meaning that instead of activating 5 separate SQLs one must only activate a single report
This logic is false and incorrect. SQLs cannot be "placed" into a report. SQLs are instructions, if you place them in a report, it would look something like this:

Ages of Students
14 Year Olds
Boys: SELECT SUM(id) FROM students WHERE gender='boy' AND age='14';
Girls: SELECT SUM(id) FROM students WHERE gender='girl' AND age='14';
Furthermore, the option doesn't even mention SQL.

So I cannot at all agree with your logic there.
 

Aseric

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I would just like to say that context diagrams are meant to be simple therefore 17d.
Interference one I put D but all my friends put B, I was brainwashed by the textbooks that only cable suffered the interference they were talking about. Also cabled seems to be more appropriate imo because there's only one answer with more like for wireless. Of course that is flawed logic but it is also how they structure most question to be so that you don't just look at one column and go BINGO ANSWER!
 

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