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Rape Ingrained in Islamic Culture? (2 Viewers)

withoutaface

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In Australia this week amidst anger over an Islamic man’s rape conviction and the bashing of two Aussie life savers, working-class locals erupted in a rampage of anger and brawling in some of the worst racial riots in decades. But there is more to the story than is being repeated in the American mainstream media....

Four days after he set foot in Australia, the rape spree began. And during his sexual assault trial in a New South Wales courtroom, the Pakistani man began to berate one of his tearful 14-year-old victims because she had the temerity to shake her head at his testimony.

But she had every reason to express her disgust. After taking an oath on the Qur’an, the man – known only as MSK – told the court he had committed four attacks on girls as young as 13 because they had no right to say “no.” They were not covering their face or wearing a headscarf, and therefore, the rapist proclaimed: “I’m not doing anything wrong.”



MSK is already serving a 22-year jail term for leading his three younger brothers in a gang rape of two other young Sydney girls in 2002. In his own defence, he argued that his cultural background, was responsible for his crimes.



And he is right.



In some parts of Pakistan, sexual assault – including gang rape – is officially sanctified as a legitimate form of enforcing the social value system.



One village council recently ordered that five young girls should be “abducted, raped or murdered” for refusing to be treated as chattel. The girls were aged between six and thirteen when they were married without their knowledge, to pay a family debt.



And when Mukhtar Mai’s 12-year-old brother was alleged to have committed an offence in a small Pakistani farming village, the village council ordered that his sister be gang-raped. So, she was taken to a hut where four men repeatedly assaulted her.



According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan there were 804 cases of such officially orchestrated sexual assault in 2000, and 434 of these were gang rapes. And if that isn’t bad enough, the victims of these atrocities are then expected to commit suicide because rape victims bring irreparable shame upon their family.



So as MSK committed his acts of rape while visiting Australia, he was simply perpetuating his own cultural heritage. He hails from a society where officially sanctioned sexual violence is commonly employed as a means to enforce the subservience of women.



And this is where two fundamental tenets of the modern Left clash: the irresistible force of cultural relativism collides with the immovable object of gender equality. But in the 21st century it is the latter that must prevail.



The laissez faire attitudes of cultural relativism are unacceptable in modern society. Female genital mutilation is not some quaint tribal custom that we are bound to respect: it is barbarism, pure and simple.



Yet many Western leftists habitually excuse these crimes against women in order to maintain political solidarity with their allies in the Islamic world. After all, it would be tough to make common cause with Muslim groups in the antiwar movement if Progressives began to criticize the practice of polygamy.



But along with Islamic immigration to the West have come Third World value systems regarding the treatment of women. We must not be seduced by the false tenets of cultural relativism into a toleration of forced marriages, officially sanctioned rape, and honour killings.



Australia’s unique brand of multiculturalism confers both rights and obligations: while cultural and linguistic diversity are to be cherished, every Australian must subscribe to a single standard of human rights. Australians must forcefully repudiate the corruption of the multicultural idea that would condone crimes against women and support jihadism.



The dangers of cultural relativism became evident Down Under last weekend when long-festering ethnic tensions erupted into violence at Cronulla Beach near Sydney. The trouble began when a group of Middle Eastern men were assaulted by mobs of angry locals. The local Member of Parliament, Bruce Baird MP, claimed the public outcry was revenge for the Bali bombings and September 11.



But Baird also explained that a series of high profile rapes in the area had spurred locals on and that a group of Middle Eastern men had attacked two Aussie lifesavers the previous weekend. Locals claimed to the media after the riots that they were sick of Lebanese Muslim gangs calling their daughters and wives names, and throwing cigarette butts at them.



Then neo-Nazis showed up in a transparent attempt to exploit local ethnic tensions for their own benefit. But mainstream Australians expressed their frustration with both the violence inflicted by Middle Eastern men, and the equally violent effort by white racists to exploit it.

While rejecting the tenets of neo-Nazism, working-class Aussies who live near Cronulla Beach were saying they’ve had enough of this culturally motivated crime wave in a wave of violence that is also unacceptable. The race riots in suburban Sydney represented a clash between two polar opposites of white supremacy and Islamic male supremacy. But the average Australian seeks a midpoint between these equally vile extremes in which fairness and a single standard of law will apply to all.
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veterandoggy

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piss off man. the only thing they think they are following correctly and it absolutely stuffs up what they are meant to believe in. this is probably one of the best examples of when culture enters religion. islam forbids rape totally. it doesnt say most of the time it is forbidden, it COMPLETELY forbids it.
 

withoutaface

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I said Islamic culture, not Islam. The culture that is created around a religion may or may not be what was originally intended, but for the purposes of this thread it is immaterial. We care about results, not intent.
 
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Yup.

I see "My culture makes me do it!" as a really stupid excuse. And there are stupid people in this world - individual stupid people. It doesn't reflect the culture as a whole, as mentioned above the islamic religion forbids rape. And in fact, I think all religions do...
 

veterandoggy

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withoutaface said:
I said Islamic culture, not Islam. The culture that is created around a religion may or may not be what was originally intended, but for the purposes of this thread it is immaterial. We care about results, not intent.
apologies. i went too quick when i saw that you had posted something with islam in it, knowing your stand on islam.

but even in lebanon where most of my relatives are, they are pretty uneducated about islam considering it is an arab country. you would find many things which are lebanese culture which have somehow managed to mutate islamic teachings and take their place.
 

banco55

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veterandoggy said:
apologies. i went too quick when i saw that you had posted something with islam in it, knowing your stand on islam.

but even in lebanon where most of my relatives are, they are pretty uneducated about islam considering it is an arab country. you would find many things which are lebanese culture which have somehow managed to mutate islamic teachings and take their place.
Isn't whether it's a perversion of islam a matter better suited to the theologians? The fact is that many Arab Muslims subscribe to a particuarly virulent forum of misogyny which leads to rapes and "honour" killings. I don't really care whether it's an old tribal practice or an islamic practice I just don't want people who think "honour" killings and the like are justified in this country.
 

veterandoggy

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banco55 said:
Isn't whether it's a perversion of islam a matter better suited to the theologians? The fact is that many Arab Muslims subscribe to a particuarly virulent forum of misogyny which leads to rapes and "honour" killings. I don't really care whether it's an old tribal practice or an islamic practice I just don't want people who think "honour" killings and the like are justified in this country.
you dare question the words of a theologian? ;)

how did misogny turn into honour killings? either way, it is a mutated mix between culture and religion, because islam forbids the taking of an human soul except by right (ie capital punishment, not murderous vigilante groups)

who thought honorary killings are justified in this country? the article is about an indian if im not mistaken, who has brought these beliefs with him from his hometown.
 

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that is disgusting, no woman deserves rape. why don't the men in those countries get punishment like that?
 
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xeuyrawp

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glitterfairy said:
It doesn't reflect the culture as a whole, as mentioned above the islamic religion forbids rape.
Rape, I believe, is the act of forcing a woman to have sex with you (in any form). It is illegal here because women are free agents and deserve to have only consentual sex (like men deserve it).

How can you say that rape is forbidden in a religion where women are simply property? Women are not free agents in Islam, but simply an extension of their male family.
 

veterandoggy

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PwarYuex said:
Rape, I believe, is the act of forcing a woman to have sex with you (in any form). It is illegal here because women are free agents and deserve to have only consentual sex (like men deserve it).

How can you say that rape is forbidden in a religion where women are simply property? Women are not free agents in Islam, but simply an extension of their male family.
its idiots like you that make me wonder. islam turned women from property into humans. any person with the ability to read who has looked up on history would know that the pagans during preislamic times buried young girls alive, and treated women as sex toys. islam gave them rights, and since islam hasnt changed since, i dont know where you got that info from, but judging its smelliness i can take an accurate guess..
 

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veterandoggy said:
its idiots like you that make me wonder. islam turned women from property into humans. any person with the ability to read who has looked up on history would know that the pagans during preislamic times buried young girls alive, and treated women as sex toys. islam gave them rights, and since islam hasnt changed since, i dont know where you got that info from, but judging its smelliness i can take an accurate guess..
The stoning of women for adultery for example is the common perception of how Islam treats women.
 

veterandoggy

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erawamai said:
The stoning of women for adultery for example is the common perception of how Islam treats women.
yes, but it is a poor example no fooense because the men are stoned too, they arent given any lesser a punishment. havent you seen terriblespellor's sig? maybe he took it off...
 
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xeuyrawp

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veterandoggy said:
its idiots like you that make me wonder.
Forgive me if I must flash credentials, but I lived in several Islamic countries, and I doubt I could be called an idiot in my own right...

islam turned women from property into humans. any person with the ability to read who has looked up on history would know that the pagans during preislamic times buried young girls alive,
Please show me where I stated that Late Antiquity did not benefit from the 'Barbarian Invasion' theories. Personally I believe that the Eastward movement of Islam did improve most people's lives. But that's because, like the theories imply, the previous barbarian invasions brought the nastiest aspects from the north-west.

and treated women as sex toys.
That's interesting, because I was offered a young girl as a sex toy on the streets of KL... Then I was offered a boy -- 'more your thing?'... Then I was offered the pair. If that's not a sex toy, I don't know what is.

islam gave them rights,
No, it gives them a place.

and since islam hasnt changed since,
I would hope that it has changed from the time when women were treated even worse than today...

i dont know where you got that info from,
To which specific info do you refer? If I'm citing a source, I'll post it up, but my statements about women in Islam come purely from personal observation.

but judging its smelliness
I'm glad you can smell my info, as such... :S

i can take an accurate guess..
But you didn't? That's interesting.
 
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xeuyrawp

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erawamai said:
The stoning of women for adultery for example is the common perception of how Islam treats women.
Is that the worst example you can find?
 

withoutaface

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You surely can't deny that there is a high corrolation between the prescence of Islam and the mistreatment of women, though.
 

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That's a problem that all religions face, but you must admit that in an Australian context, Islam appears to be the one that most often escapes into the notion that "they aren't following the teachings of Islam..." whenever a problem emerges. That said, Islam is the religion that is at the fore at the moment (in terms of popular discussions, not social importance), so I guess that in a way that is to be expected. Still, it would be nice for some to admit that Islam (as with other religions) can be and is abused on a regular basis.

Edit: and that it isn't perfect, but there's no point in asking for the moon.
 
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